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For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:00:24 PM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

...I have three questions.

How many of you, Dom* and sub alike, use it in real life? I've seen some people get very defensive about their use of it along with the explanations as to why it's used, and it made me wonder if it is, in fact, a part of their dynamic or off-line personalities.

For those whose reasoning is because they're told to use it by their Dominant, does this same order apply when speaking off-line?

And finally, how many, if any, have used it in a public setting?

*I recognise that the number of Dominants who use it is significantly less than their submissive counterparts, but I have seen it used.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

Post #: 1

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:02:59 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

Communication is hard enough without making it more difficult. I really don't see the point but to each their own.

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 2

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:08:03 PM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

There was a point in my life where speaking in 3rd person in real life was used by the one training me to remind me of my place. Of who and what I was and wanted in life and with life. Though I don't use anymore online or off it can serve a very real purpose. Though many may not agree with its usage I think this is a case of different strokes for different folks.

Nika{Phoenix}

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 3

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:08:26 PM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline

I don't personally use it, nor ask my subs to, but I thought I'd mention that there was a Gorean couple at my former munch (for a very short time unfortunately) and the slave would fluctuate back and forth. She tended to speak more in 1st person when her Master wasn't around and more in 3rd person when he was. He would correct her when he caught her saying "I". and sometimes when he wasn't around, she'd catch herself. You could easily tell that she was getting used to the transition from saying "I" to "this girl".
Looking back, I wish they had felt more comfortable at the munches. I really would have liked to have gotten to know them better.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 4

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:13:58 PM

chainedupnick

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline

i've done it on occasion in the past, after i've been shown by example (another sub). If it gets some positive feedback, i'd continue doing it. if it gets no or negative feedback, i'd stop. if it gets to the point where it's reflexive, i've even started thinking in 3rd person because it feels good to do it that way. It's something i do when i have a good subbie headspace ;)

In a vanilla setting though, my impression that it would get more negative feedback than positive. When talking in public i'd work at talking in 1st person for everyone else.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 5

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:34:54 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

beth maintains third person speech, written/oral, private/public, on/off-line, at all times and has for over three years. When the social occasion warrants, be it business or family, she may forgo the rule; but sometimes she slips.

We "communicate" quite well.

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 6

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:37:48 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

While I respect everyone's rights to express themselves as they like, I have an automatic "annoyance reflex" when it comes to butchering the English language for the sake of kinky roleplaying. Third person speech is far less annoying that decapitalizing or inappropriately capitalizing pronouns, which in turn is far less annoying than people who attempt to address me by some inappropriate title or demand that I address them by some inappropriate title.

A lot of the annoyance factor for me personally is about consent. Just because I'm kinky too, please do not automatically assume that I want to participate in *any* level of BDSM roleplaying with you. I prefer to have social interactions with other adults in a normal polite fashion that has nothing to do with our respective D/s or sexual orientations. So if you would not talk that way to the librarian or the bank teller in your everyday life, please don't do it to me either. I do not consent to serve as a prop for any degree of "acting out" of D/s roles by strangers. If you want to have any degree of D/s interaction with me, you have to ask and get consent first.

D/s is something intensely personal and meaningful to me. When I consent to some level of power exchange, even something so trivial as a verbal interaction, it means something to me. I take it very seriously. As a dominant, it means I feel some level of responsibility for anyone whose submission I knowingly accept even in minor degree. To some extent, their submission also becomes a reflection on me, my public image, and my personal honor, because I have accepted it. I don't consent to that on a trivial basis with strangers.

YMMV. I don't feel that my personal perception is necessarily correct for everyone. It's just my personal perception. There is no Big Leather Book of Answers for this lifestyle that is the Right Way To Do Things for everyone. In the end, it comes down to what is comfortable and what works well for you and for the people you're interacting with. I feel that I have the right to say what I do and don't consent to for myself in my own personal and social space, and other people have the right to express themselves with their consenting adult partners as they choose.

(in reply to chainedupnick)

Post #: 7

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:41:45 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

Third person speech is a requirement that this girl learns at Master's command. Master is Gorean and the use of third person speech takes the girl 'out of herself' and reminds her of her place.
This girl is required to use it all times when speaking to Master and Mistress and any other sort of communication within the lifestyle.
Sometimes she forgets but Master told this one yesterday she rarely forgets now and slips into "i" mode

This girl has found herself telling Master when she forgets as she seems to catch the slip ups now.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 8

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 12:50:14 PM

MadamShy

Posts: 173
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline

I have My subs use third person only when they have disobeyed ... or they are to go in third person if they are to beg for forgiveness in gor third person didn't show up till somewhere in the early twentys of the books ... and was only used for punishment or to beg forgiveness ... OR if a Master or Mistress told a slave to do so...

or as fyreredsub

it takes the girl [or boy] out of themselves' and reminds them of their place

titleAndStar(1615,0,0,false,"","")

_____________________________

Madam Shy
Head Domina
Bitch of Club Hell
Providence RI

(in reply to fyreredsub)

Post #: 9

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:10:42 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Personally it is one aspect of BDSM that I find rather rediculous and never use it or expect it. Obviously that is just my personal preference and take the position........whatever floats your boat.

(in reply to MadamShy)

Post #: 10

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:21:37 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

This girl saw this girl at the store.

What does that mean?

It could mean that "I" saw this stranger at the store.
It could mean that "Some stranger" saw me at the store.
Or it could mean that some stranger saw some other stranger at the store.

It can be confusing if someone's writing skill is ineffective in other areas and often it's not worth the trouble of trying to figure it out. I've never put anyone on block for third person speech, but I admit to often skipping posts because of it. Whether or not you exchange a personal pronoun with another word or phrase, words are merely symbols to portray our idea of something. Saying "I" is no more or less symbolic than saying 'this girl' as you are still talking about yourself. I can call myself a 'blue widget' and if the context of my writing makes it clear I'm speaking of myself, there is no difference.
The third person use of "master" however, doesn't even make sense to me. I can understand a slave using it as a means of minimizing ego, but what is the purpose of using the term 'master' in the third person unless it's to inflate one's own ego? If someone has to do such a thing, I would question how entitled they are to their self proclaimed title. ::chuckles::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 11

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:25:58 PM

MissyRane

Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

If something pisses me off is this 3rd person talk
this girl blablabla
this boy blablabla ARGH i never read those posts i just run over them

sorry guys..no offence

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 12

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:30:21 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

*giggles* to communicate effectively in third person

this girl would say,

this girl saw ____(insert name of person seen)___ at the store.

unless of course this one saw herself*chuckles* thats the visual this girl got when she read it.

it is just one of those things about WIITWD that makes up all of the individual parts of the different dynamics of people.

this girl figures that if people do not like it or are offended by it they do not have to read it. she felt akward when first applying it in her life but is getting used to it now.

this girls concern is if it is what Master and Mistress wish for this girl to learn, then she will learn.

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 4/26/2006 1:39:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 13

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:31:54 PM

MadamShy

Posts: 173
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

This girl saw this girl at the store.

What does that mean?

It could mean that "I" saw this stranger at the store.
It could mean that "Some stranger" saw me at the store.
Or it could mean that some stranger saw some other stranger at the store.

It can be confusing if someone's writing skill is ineffective in other areas and often it's not worth the trouble of trying to figure it out. I've never put anyone on block for third person speech, but I admit to often skipping posts because of it. Whether or not you exchange a personal pronoun with another word or phrase, words are merely symbols to portray our idea of something. Saying "I" is no more or less symbolic than saying 'this girl' as you are still talking about yourself. I can call myself a 'blue widget' and if the context of my writing makes it clear I'm speaking of myself, there is no difference.
The third person use of "master" however, doesn't even make sense to me. I can understand a slave using it as a means of minimizing ego, but what is the purpose of using the term 'master' in the third person unless it's to inflate one's own ego? If someone has to do such a thing, I would question how entitled they are to their self proclaimed title. ::chuckles::

Celeste

and that is exactly why I only use it during begging to be forgiven LOL

_____________________________

Madam Shy
Head Domina
Bitch of Club Hell
Providence RI

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 14

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:33:41 PM

MadamShy

Posts: 173
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

*giggles* to communicate effectively in third person

this girl would say,

this girl saw ____(insert name of person seen)___ at the store.

um good point ... second person is what we are talking about ... aren't W/we.. lol

_____________________________

Madam Shy
Head Domina
Bitch of Club Hell
Providence RI

(in reply to fyreredsub)

Post #: 15

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:36:30 PM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

I understand that for some submissives/slaves third person speech gives them a mindset of their roles. It is a tool of punishment and begging forgiveness. However, I have often wondered why do "Masters/Mistresses" use 3rd person. I have seen this a few times granted typically online.

Nika{Phoenix}

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 16

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:41:15 PM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadamShy
um good point ... second person is what we are talking about ... aren't W/we.. lol

You know when you're getting ready to say something and you forgot what it is you wanted to say.....
(Generic/indirect second person)
You need to have those dishes washed and put away on time.
(Specific/direct second person)

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to MadamShy)

Post #: 17

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 1:49:13 PM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline

If it is a pet peeve of limit, couldn’t you just toss it your profile?

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to MadamShy)

Post #: 18

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:02:02 PM

HayaSierra

Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline

Greetings everyone,

MissyRane wrote about skipping posts that do not use "i" or "I" -- those that use "this girl", "this boy" etc. What if some Masters and Mistresses want there to be a certain type of distinction between their slave/ owned property and others who may have more rights than that? What if a Master or Mistress actually puts rules into effect that said slave should only friend others who are submissive, and not mingle with Masters and Mistresses -- due to the difference of position. This indirect speech is just one of many methods that can be used to make one aware of their station, quickly and easily. And this observation by MissyRane is perfect for me to point something out why we use it in my culture with certain individuals.

In my Household in general, very few slaves are told and ordered to speak without refering to themselves as people. They often have to use "it", "itself", "this ta", and so on and so forth -- because those individuals are not treated as people. they are property, and they are even referred to me in this manner. Individuals skipping their profiles, and skipping their messages is completely acceptable -- because in some cases they are not equal to a servant or even a submissive, much less a Mistress or Master, and no one needs to pay any mind to them.

It may seem cruel, but trust me, it is exactly the type of slavery that some individuals seek. Some for a timeframe, others for long term. Most of those who are into things like that, are actually into objectfication and various other methods of humiliation.

Also makes it sound much different weather I say:

*you, (name), have really screwed up today, this behavior is not acceptable and I figured I had gotten far enough in your training to avoid such things....

or:

*this worthless ta of mine has screwed up today, such behavior shows why I treat it as I do, and training has shown to be a pretty useless endeavor as shown by the ta's behavior.....

Big difference.

Haya Sierra ---

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

(in reply to MissyRane)

Post #: 19

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:07:09 PM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

Thank you, everyone, for replying. However, only Merc really answered the questions.

I understand the reasons it's used, so I'm not really looking for the 'why' answers. To be frank, I don't really care what a persons reasons are for using it, or not using it.

I'll try to clarify the questions:

For those who use it (or who are told to use it), does it extend to off-line interaction, as well, or does it fall by the wayside when the puter is turned off?

To go one step further, if it is used off-line, is it limited to scening, or is it used in everyday conversation?

And, how many, if any, have, or do use it in a public setting?

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)

Post #: 20

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