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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Anytime some dominant announces he makes every single choice, I can't help but wonder how he has that much time in his day. "Master, may I have ketchup with my french fries" "You may have exactly one and a half teaspoons, no more or less". If you're so insecure you need to control everything outside you to this degree, it says to me you don't feel in control of yourself. Because people who are sure of themselves don't go crazy trying to control the rest of the world obsessively..

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ORIGINAL: Icarys



Not that you would do or are doing this but I've seen that in more than a few people as testing their chains. Since I look for someone who embraces their slavehood with completely open arms and is stilled in who they are, I find it hard to want to be with anyone otherwise.

Now if the day comes where a female can legally be bound to me as a slave and she's recognized as property with all the "honorable legal intentions" that marriage has to me then maybe yes. Till then I'll choose the initial consent deal and try as close as I can come to it out of love.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine


It is because of that and the strength of His will that I remain, not simply due to my own desires or selfishness. And in the moments when I think or wish to be elsewhere I count on (and silently pray) He'll pull me closer and won't allow me to wander off instead. In many respects I see it as a blessed helplessness.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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as for "testing the chains"...that's not a mentality i can relate to, maybe because of my nature. but a person's slavery may be so thoroughly ingrained, internalized, conditioned, etc. that they literally cannot envision themselves not being owned by you. this state may persist even when in that person's heart or spirit they truly do not want to be there with you any longer. they would never dare beg release, they would never dream of trying to leave. they accept their condition of slavery. they accept you are God, and as such only you are the one who can bring about such a dramatic change in their reality.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I also think many people who are saying women always have a choice are people who don't understand mastery or the strength of the bond which can hold a woman because of his mastery.   I know this concept scares people so its easier to say ohhh you do have a choice.  Just because a woman can't leave doesn't mean its a BAD thing.  For someone like me it IS a GOOD thing.  I need the man's hold, i need his strength in maintaining the relationship.  I being a woman who did exist in this type of relationship, i really would appreciate people who DON'T know what it is to make the not being able to leave into some big bad concept.  And do NOT ignorantly throw around words like abusers and abusive.  It only allows misconceptions and fear to stain something that is actually very beautiful within the concept as a whole.

angel

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine


It is because of that and the strength of His will that I remain, not simply due to my own desires or selfishness. And in the moments when I think or wish to be elsewhere I count on (and silently pray) He'll pull me closer and won't allow me to wander off instead. In many respects I see it as a blessed helplessness.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

greetings porcelaine,

thank you for understanding the internal state of slavery i've attempted to describe...quite often it feels like i'm just rambling, lol.

"blessed helplessness"...yes. i like that.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys


Her beauty often shines bright through her words, as does yours.

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*blush* thank you Sir.

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Yes, chuckles, I do have it figured out(I know what your attempting to do here but it won't work on me).

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Because people who are sure of themselves don't go crazy trying to control the rest of the world obsessively..

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You can say in some deep dark recess of the minds of women who have experienced what i speak of some how MAKE a choice but no, its no longer about choices. if its no longer about choices then the concept is, therefore, moot. And that to me is a major freedom and allowance of a woman simply being able to exhale and be. .

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I think much of the disconnect in understanding this does come from how people view M/s. Many times people see the "doings" as what is the M/s, the orders and the obeying etc. Instead of understanding its about being and who the two people are. This i think is why there is such a major disconnect when it comes to discussions like this. There is a HUGE difference between the slavery and the M/s connection. To me, the slavery is the "doings" so to speak based on the determination of the Man and how he dictates the slave exists in his life.

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I'm not sure whether this applies or not -- but it seems to me that the disconnect here is over the issue of the choice to stay or to leave... and you're right. There comes a point for some people where that is simply a non-issue. It doesn't even surface in the brain on a bad day... there -is- no existence but the one that you are in, and no conception that that existence could be or should be anything but what it is... BUT.. even in that place, I recognized within myself a decision process... a decision to grow through the experience or to stagnate.... a choice to become fully immersed in the experience or to fight it.... a choice to embrace my own capacity to yield that much without breaking or to chafe and fray around the edges.

Yes, one can find oneself bound -- but one still has one's own mind, one's own thoughts, and the choices of how one approaches the circumstances within which one finds oneself. We are not victims of our lives, and part of embracing the idea that being bound in slavery is not a bad thing includes, in my opinion, accepting that our being bound to that place is at least a choice in the sense of being self-aware of one's place and fully embracing who and what one -is-.

Calla

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I will go on knowing as i did as soon as this thread started, there will be people who never understand what it is i speak of.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Funny, there were many times i was a disobedient slave.  I didn't make a choice everytime he ordered something whether i obeyed or left, i made a choice whether to obey or disobey.  Our relationship wasn't concensual slavery, our relationship simply was Master/slave.  It was based on his mastery of me and my reaction to him.  And despite all of the OMG notion many people will have to this -- no, i didn't have the ability to JUST LEAVE.  His hold on me was way to strong for that due to his mastery.  I was able to leave when his mastery no longer held me to him.

People love to throw around consent and non-consent, but most people don't have a clue what each of those really means.  Was i responsible for my choices, yeah in terms of whether or not i obeyed or disobeyed.  I didn't need to worry about anything else.  And before you start going off in the direction of extremes -- just don't because that is stupid.  Why is it stupid, because its not something a MAJORITY of men do when they own slaves, NOT EVEN when slavery was a legality concept.  That is always thrown out in these types of threads and its silly.

Unlike many people, he wasn't afraid of my disobedience and i didn't show him how "slave" i was by how obedient i was to him.  I reacted to his mastery of me.  Some days i was obedient, some days i wasn't.  He dealt with each of those concepts as he chose.

i would never be in a relationship wherein the guy needed the concept of obey or leave.  Disobedience while it has its consequences wasn't the ultimate decision-maker of whether or not our relationship was stable.  His mastery of me was.  That left the choice of the relationship in his hands, where i feel it belongs.  i don't do ultimatums and to me the obey of leave concept if a ultimatum which i have never understood.  To me, a Man should be capable of maintaining the M/s relationship even when the slave is disobedient instead of needing the leave concept as a tool to keep her obeying. 

I also don't worry based on my experience of M/s about consensuality.  The relationship happens due to it being natural between he and i, its not a contract as many have, its not a if this than that, its not about the threat of you obey or you leave.  It simply about he and i.  Is it a consensual concept, on some parts no, because it is based on his HOLD over me due to his mastery of me, and in that mastery he does in fact take some if not all of my autonomy. 

Many people this scares, but for me personally, the idea that my relationship would be based upon my obedience to him (though as it was his expectations, i would indeed strive to be obedient) would give me way to much power over him and i would definitely use it to maniupulate the situation.

Some women like maintaining that little bit of control knowing they have the ultimate say.  That isn't it for me or for women like me.  I find security in his mastery, and i find security in his controling my autonomy.  i like knowing our relationship is based upon a value system in that my value needs to stay higher than the cost of keeping me.  And his mastery held me by his determination to do so.  I liked being held by him.  I also like knowing my behavior doesn't control his.  To me, on many levels, the idea of obey or leave does in fact control his behavior because he has been put in a position wherein he MUST act.  There were many times my Master didn't act at all when i was disobedient, there were times when he determined i would face the consequences of HIS choosing for my disobedience, and there were times when he took my disobedience as an indication i needed him.  In the end, when his mastery ends, the relationship is no longer M/s and her autonomy is returned to her and she makes her decisions.

So while so many people are caught up in consensuality, to me there is WAY too much focus on it and it seems to have distorted the very nature of M/s in its most basic concept.  The man holding the woman based on HIS ability, not her choice.  Is there a consensuality -- maybe -- or maybe its just a natural reaction and existance for two people. Sometimes when i read these boards, people seem to make M/s so complicated with all the consensuality and this and that and obey or leave.  I would be exhausted trying to keep it all straight.

I am all for the simplicity -- Man wants a woman, man masters a woman, and claims the woman for his own.  If its a natural concept she will react to him and exist as he determines for her.  If its not a natural concept, she won't and both move on to find another.

angel

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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I will go on knowing as i did as soon as this thread started, there will be people who never understand what it is i speak of.

Sure sure..It's all about Icarys and how he doesn't understand and how he hasn't mastered someone to that extent.
The warcry of those who are wrong.."You don't understand what I'm saying and I'm the only one who gets it"..Yada Yada.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
We are not victims of our lives, and part of embracing the idea that being bound in slavery is not a bad thing includes, in my opinion, accepting that our being bound to that place is at least a choice in the sense of being self-aware of one's place and fully embracing who and what one -is-.

Calla