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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 4:43:34 PM   
Lucylastic


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used to wear it on the tube on my way to euston


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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 4:48:36 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I remember I had a tshirt that read,
I am NOT unattended Baggage
Leave me alone
used to wear it on the tube on my way to euston


My fave at the time was "I have not been in an explosion. My hair always looks like this in the mornings".

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 4:53:54 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

It's the hypocrisy that gets me every time. The establishment whine about the 'violent tactics' employed by some activists at protests against various government austerity measures dumbassery, but they skip over the actual violence done in their name when it comes to having people evicted from their homes by force (as they surely will do) and the metaphorical violence implied by the cuts.

Fuck 'em. Hang the bastard bankers!



Sidestepping the issue of how to balance the British budget, a comment on "violence"-
Here is a story of a woman in Florida who died simply because she was poor and lived under a Republican governor.

She needed a liver transplant; the state forced her into a private program, and they unjustly denied her claim, until finally were forced to accept it- at which point she was too sick.

So the bland bureacratic decisions of anonymous accountants resulted in an innocent woman dying needlessly. This was a cruelty far more criminal than someone throwing a brick through a window or setting a car on fire- yet no one will go to jail, there won't be a massive outcry for justice, instead her family will simply be forced to accept an outrage and suffer quietly.

So I don't know- I am not advocating riots; but for the sole reason that they punish the innocent and let the truly guilty parties go free.

But I have to wonder at the fools who harumph and decry "violence" and urge "bipartisan consensus" and see only "both sides do it too" false equivalency. Governments inflict violence and cruelty on a daily basis, and if we were honest with ourselves and took seriously the notion that the entire purpose of civilization is to protect the defenseless then we wouldn't have a majority political party that has, as its core mission, the goal of stripping away even the meager health care that poor people have.


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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 5:04:28 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

But I have to wonder at the fools who harumph and decry "violence" and urge "bipartisan consensus" and see only "both sides do it too" false equivalency. Governments inflict violence and cruelty on a daily basis, and if we were honest with ourselves and took seriously the notion that the entire purpose of civilization is to protect the defenseless then we wouldn't have a majority political party that has, as its core mission, the goal of stripping away even the meager health care that poor people have.




Well Einstein, most of the fools who decry the violence, at least in the UK, wont hear a word said against the NHS. Some of us just feel more violence ISNT the answer. My political views are more social than socialist, yet I can still see the following truth. Without taxing the worse off to the hilt, there isnt enough money to do everything we would wish. The cost of policing the student demos, will have to be met by cuts in OTHER parts of the budget, its hardly rocket science. Something has to give, deciding what, isnt easy, so any choice will always have vocal detractors.

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 5:10:41 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

But I have to wonder at the fools who harumph and decry "violence" and urge "bipartisan consensus" and see only "both sides do it too" false equivalency. Governments inflict violence and cruelty on a daily basis, and if we were honest with ourselves and took seriously the notion that the entire purpose of civilization is to protect the defenseless then we wouldn't have a majority political party that has, as its core mission, the goal of stripping away even the meager health care that poor people have.




Well Einstein, most of the fools who decry the violence, at least in the UK, wont hear a word said against the NHS. Some of us just feel more violence ISNT the answer. My political views are more social than socialist, yet I can still see the following truth. Without taxing the worse off to the hilt, there isnt enough money to do everything we would wish. The cost of policing the student demos, will have to be met by cuts in OTHER parts of the budget, its hardly rocket science. Something has to give, deciding what, isnt easy, so any choice will always have vocal detractors.


Agreed. I also get the feeling the NUS totally lost control of the whole agenda, and demos, and got hijacked.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 5:13:06 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Im wondering how so many school kids managed to get the day off. Many at the demo were too young to be students.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 5:36:14 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Im wondering how so many school kids managed to get the day off. Many at the demo were too young to be students.


The Beeb's web site carried news of a "proud mother" ... she was chuffed to bits her daughter was giving the Tories what for ...

... her daughter is 15.

FFS.

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 5:41:43 PM   
Edwynn


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FR

I doubt that anyone, even the brick throwers, considers the violence to be  an -answer- but rather a message. That is not a justification but a clarification. Another clarification is that everybody needs to suffer cuts, the worst off more than anyone, not for sake of doing all that society wishes but because society is not able to get back what was stolen from them by the financial industry. All that society would normally wish to be done is largely off the table now, and those who absconded with train loads of Treasury money via bail outs can sit comfortably and watch as all the rest are at each others' throats, as they will be for some time. I don't see anyone here advocating nor even justifying the violence, just pointing out to the discussion what the violence is saying about what has transpired these last couple of years.

The reason I don't like seeing a legitimate action devolving into violence is because it reduces that same legitimacy in everyone else's mind, and often times the aftermath response by the authorities can leave things worse than they were beforehand.





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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 7:34:58 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I just love this pic, it says so much





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/25/2010 7:38:19 PM >

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 7:37:55 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I just love this pic, it says so much ;


Indeed so.

To me it says "I think I'm clever for helping to smash up this police van, little realising that repairing it will leech yet more money from overly stretched budgets. What a thick twat I am. Go me!"



(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 7:40:25 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Possibly the point has come for many where they think what does it matter anymore, may as well just protest, as were going to get screwed over anyway.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 7:48:10 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Possibly the point has come for many where they think what does it matter anymore, may as well just protest, as were going to get screwed over anyway.


There are cutbacks all over, many in much more important areas, where people will suffer greatly. What makes these soap-dodgers a special case?

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 8:01:03 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Because a lot of students don't have much money, they are in with the poor.

Soap dodger, yes of course, ever tried to use soap in a cold shower, heating and electricity for the poor is an expensive commodity, I know, my heating is off, too expensive to run.

but ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbLF9em90Tc


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 8:06:55 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Because a lot of students don't have much money, they are in with the poor.


And I repeat, what makes them a special case?

Quite happy to run repair bills up for the rest of us by smashing shit up though eh?

Or do they think the money fairy pays for their vandalism?

As soon as they smashed up buildings the first time round I lost what little sympathy I had for them. Others will suffer much more greatly in the cutbacks, and yet they think they're exempt. Well here's a newsflash for them - they aren't.

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/25/2010 8:22:02 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		But one thing is with the young, they act, many a student worldwide has protested to varying degrees, and managed to change ways of thinking. They seem to have the energy and drive to act, whereas everyone else just grumbles and accepts whatever shit is forced upon them no matter how unjust.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/26/2010 7:19:34 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Either the government are extremely naive, or there is more to this plan that has yet to be revealed,




Like America, you all need to read the law books and then ask yourselves how naive the government is.

Like America the news is localized or even not reported ot reported in a manner that its glossed over followed immediately by some sex scandal to draw attention away such that they can claim they reported it.

Its all propaganda because the extent of your rights are only as far as you know you have them.

We have the same problem. the latest gig here is localize the news so only the immediate area hears about protests not the whole nation.

Dont want a slave uprising


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/26/2010 7:36:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		costs should be falling.

think of how much can be done online

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/26/2010 7:44:43 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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it will never happen.
it will never change until people wise up
the whole legal system is built around commerce.
america was discovered as a result of business ventures.
literally all law is built around commerce and that was built around the pyramid schemes known as the feudal system where everything added up ti the crown/king etc
the object of society in context of commerce is to keep as much cash circulating as possible at all times.
every transaction is taxed and its the taxing usury schemes that have been employed as a result of the feudal schemes that have been in place since the beginning of time that is literally wiping out society at large.

How do retired people for instance pay for property taxes for a home they paid for in full when all they get is enough in SSA to buy food and pay utilities?

This is the same old tune and no one takes the time to truly understand it and as long as they dont the beat goes on.

people neither study nor do they listen to the music


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/26/2010 7:45:59 AM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		This is another example of what happens when people think they are entitled to freebies while other people have to pay for it. First they rioted in Greece when the gov decided to cut back, then they rioted in France, when they decided to raise the retirement age, now they are rioting in England over tuition hikes.

When you start subsidizing everything, the costs just keep going up and up and eventually the government has to say we can't afford this any more. America use to be the greatest country in the world, because we didn't subsidize hardly anything. The free market system was allowed to work it's magic. If it didn't pay for itself through the free market system, then it failed and shut down for something better to come along. When you start subsidizing bad ideas or people who don't want to live within their means, you are creating an illusionary economy and setting yourself up for either a massive collapse or degeneration into a 3rd world nation.

The only programs we should be subsidizing are social security, medicare, and medicaid, but even then there need to be some major changes such as controlling costs first. One night in the hospital costing $3,000 is absurd.


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Burning with anger: London streets in flames again ... - 11/26/2010 7:59:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Dude!

Why is knowledge even copyrighted?

Why is this monetized?      WHY?

We live in a open and free society.  Paying for knowledge is contrary to that.

and let me say- that MIT offers classes online for FREE.

So knowing this- why on earth would "I" pay for it??

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 60
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