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RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 2:47:05 PM   
CerVeza


Posts: 156
Joined: 10/13/2010
Status: offline 		yay! o'bama incompetent and way over his head! hilary having secret police on UN ambassadors! And the "what me worry" press gives em all a pass! yay!!!

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 3:37:02 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		There is a theory titled, "Diffusion of Innovation" that was started about 100 years ago. It was later updated as "Diffusion of Technology" and more recently as "Diffusion of Information." They are all basically the same and discuss such things as adoption rates, cultural factors, benefit realized versus risk, and so forth. I used this theory as a basis to write my senior thesis in college. The thing that struck me the most was the inevitability of things "getting out" to the general public. The knowledge of how to construct a nuclear bomb is a particularly chilling thought. You might think of diffusion as "Pandora's Box" depending on the subject in question. But probably what's most important is to understand diffusion is a process that is symbiotic with the host (in this case human culture)...a pattern of sorts that people rely on either directly or unwittingly.

So my take on Wikileaks is that it is relatively irresponsible regardless of whatever good may or may not come from the information being published. Until every last soul alive (or non-living entity) has no problem being completely transparent, there will continue to be secrets. For reasons too complex to explain here, secrets have become part of the very fabric of human culture. Anyone who thinks this approach to transparency is wise has another thought coming. In principle it's no different than walking into a movie theater full of people and yelling, "Fire!"

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 7:19:43 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CerVeza

yay! o'bama incompetent and way over his head! hilary having secret police on UN ambassadors! And the "what me worry" press gives em all a pass! yay!!!


Everyone knew for months that this was going to happen but Oblunder did nothing to prevent it.
This guy could have been "dissapered" anytime.
I'm telling ya, Obama isn't "smart", he's a fucking Dope!

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 7:35:05 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		and people like you would be screaming about rights of free speech and calling Obama a cold blooded murder
Its not just a USA thing you dumbass, and its been going since 2006... and upset many governments. Assange isnt american he is australian,
so how is this down to Obama??
Can you stop the hate long enough to actually become educated a little more? ok I just realised the insanity of that comment and
yes Im yelling at someone who is ignoring me,
time for bed I think sigh


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 8:03:13 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		European authorities are searching for Assange as we speak. He will be arrested to answer a rape charge. He is in hiding and on the run.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Wikileaks - 12/1/2010 9:54:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone happen to hear about Amazon.com reaction?

SEATTLE, Dec. 1 (UPI) -- Amazon.com has kicked Internet whistle-blower WikiLeaks off its servers, WikiLeaks said Wednesday.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/12/01/Amazoncom-boots-Wikileaks/UPI-15771291256773/

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 1:13:49 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		The most amazing thing about this story is the casual way in which those who favour 'freedom' and 'democracy' and 'small government' are the ones whining the loudest about a legitimate website and its owner and are advocating violence and law-breaking as a means of bringing a legal activity to an end.

It is not the job of Wikileaks to enforce government secrecy. That's the job of government. Wikileaks is providing a valuable service to us all by providing a neutral platform for whistle-blowers to report on government hypocrisy and crime. If government doesn't like that, then government should keep its hands clean, because then it wouldn't happen.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 3:39:47 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

The most amazing thing about this story is the casual way in which those who favour 'freedom' and 'democracy' and 'small government' are the ones whining the loudest about a legitimate website and its owner and are advocating violence and law-breaking as a means of bringing a legal activity to an end.

It is not the job of Wikileaks to enforce government secrecy. That's the job of government. Wikileaks is providing a valuable service to us all by providing a neutral platform for whistle-blowers to report on government hypocrisy and crime. If government doesn't like that, then government should keep its hands clean, because then it wouldn't happen.


Hey, I'm for small government, and freedom, etc... and I think Wikileaks is great.

All this whole affair has done is show who is a wannabe fascist, like Huckabee the supposed christian calling for blood, blood, over these stupid cables that should have been secured properly if they were so important. As if a hogpog of 30 somethings that slapped a website up a few years ago, can get it, why wouldn't other powers have it already.

Me, thinks they are just pissed because it's given to the public, rather than the "supposed" information leak to foreign nations.

This is the US Governments fault, and a couple of insiders fault. Wikileaks didn't hack any government server, they were handed it, by a government employee.

But the little nazi wannabees want to blame wikileaks and soak in albino dudes blood. As if Manning wouldn't have given it to someone else.

You know at the end of the day, if you want to keep secrets it's your responsibility to keep it secret. I don't care at all, if Hillary is embarrassed that she is encouraging illegal spying. If you keep a pound of gold on a window seal protected only by pop out screen don't act shocked if it comes up missing.

So, my analysis is, it's wholly and fully the fault of the government and it's employees, who failed to secure their data and monitor their own, but let's assassinate the albino dude instead. LOL. I mean manning wouldn't have possibly done this if wikileaks didn't exist(sarcasm).








(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 3:54:02 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Damn straight!

Sounds like my stereotyping got the better of me. Apologies.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 4:41:24 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

European authorities are searching for Assange as we speak. He will be arrested to answer a rape charge. He is in hiding and on the run.


That rape charge and warrant is all a bit too convenient .... wouldn't you say?

I'm nominating Assange for Australian of the Year! Go Julian!

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 5:23:05 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

European authorities are searching for Assange as we speak. He will be arrested to answer a rape charge. He is in hiding and on the run.


That rape charge and warrant is all a bit too convenient .... wouldn't you say?

I'm nominating Assange for Australian of the Year! Go Julian!


Sighs.... Its no surprise that they are now going down this route. They have tried everything else.


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 8:47:27 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		I personally love the fact that they can't lie about it anymore. Always pretending to do one thing to our faces and all the while doing the opposite.

If people at that level feel okay in doing some of the things they have inside their circles...I really wonder just how much other stuff they are capable of...

It may have been smarter for him though to do things in a little more strategic way...I mean dumping something as large as that with the wide reaching implications...Nobody could probably hide for very long lol..More than a few countries will be looking for ya.


I'm glad he did it though. Very much so.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 10:41:50 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

There is a theory titled, "Diffusion of Innovation" that was started about 100 years ago. It was later updated as "Diffusion of Technology" and more recently as "Diffusion of Information." They are all basically the same and discuss such things as adoption rates, cultural factors, benefit realized versus risk, and so forth. I used this theory as a basis to write my senior thesis in college. The thing that struck me the most was the inevitability of things "getting out" to the general public. The knowledge of how to construct a nuclear bomb is a particularly chilling thought. You might think of diffusion as "Pandora's Box" depending on the subject in question. But probably what's most important is to understand diffusion is a process that is symbiotic with the host (in this case human culture)...a pattern of sorts that people rely on either directly or unwittingly.

So my take on Wikileaks is that it is relatively irresponsible regardless of whatever good may or may not come from the information being published. Until every last soul alive (or non-living entity) has no problem being completely transparent, there will continue to be secrets. For reasons too complex to explain here, secrets have become part of the very fabric of human culture. Anyone who thinks this approach to transparency is wise has another thought coming. In principle it's no different than walking into a movie theater full of people and yelling, "Fire!"


You know, I'm really tired of people misinterpreting this quote and the case it came from.

How about if I walk into a movie theater full of people and yell fire when there is a fire?

Here are some links Mr. College Thesis, educate yourself.

SCHENCK v. US , 249 US 47 (1919) - FindLaw | Cases and Code

BRANDENBURG V. OHIO, 395 U. S. 444 :: Volume 395 :: 1969


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 10:55:38 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Everyone knew for months that this was going to happen but Oblunder did nothing to prevent it.
This guy could have been "dissapered" anytime.
I'm telling ya, Obama isn't "smart", he's a fucking Dope!


So let me see if I have this straight.

You are advocating that our government should make people disappear when they say or do things opposed to the government?

You continually amaze me Popeye.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 4:19:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Everyone knew for months that this was going to happen but Oblunder did nothing to prevent it.
This guy could have been "dissapered" anytime.
I'm telling ya, Obama isn't "smart", he's a fucking Dope!


So let me see if I have this straight.

You are advocating that our government should make people disappear when they say or do things opposed to the government?

You continually amaze me Popeye.



Not a bad stance from an "independent" who "hates" big government huh.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 4:43:29 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

European authorities are searching for Assange as we speak. He will be arrested to answer a rape charge. He is in hiding and on the run.


The latest news is that he's in the south east of England and that the police know where he is, but are refusing to arrest him.  He came to the UK and informed the police of his whereabouts of his own volition.  He's not on the run.  He wouldn't have the slightest chance of evading capture if he were.  There are countries that have offered him safe haven, but he wouldn't be able to get to them without being intercepted. 


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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 5:00:05 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I personally love the fact that they can't lie about it anymore. Always pretending to do one thing to our faces and all the while doing the opposite.


Me, what I love most of all is that all these governments, and their various spooks, oglers, geeks and general professional paranoids, are getting hoist by their own petard.  Assange and his team are like the Robin Hoods of information: they steal from the information-rich and give it to the information-poor.  We in the UK have more cameras trained on us than anywhere else in the world - I'm bound to feel a big dose of glee.  Governments just love to surveil people - but, oh, they hate it when people surveil them back.  They want info on us - as much as they can get - but they really don't want us private citizens having info on them. 

Well, tough shit.  What we have here is a movement for the democratisation of surveillance.  I do understand the need for national secrets to be kept secret - but I also understand that governments and their lackeys need to be watched and controlled by us, the people who made them our governments, and who are their masters.  If they stop lying, and stop being corrupt, maybe people like Assange will go away.  If they don't . . . well, there are plenty of others willing and able to take Assange's place.  Governments aren't going to win this war of information against private citizens - that's now very clear.  They'll just have to clean up their acts, instead.  What a shame.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Wikileaks - 12/2/2010 10:59:16 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250



Everyone knew for months that this was going to happen but Oblunder did nothing to prevent it.
This guy could have been "dissapered" anytime.
I'm telling ya, Obama isn't "smart", he's a fucking Dope!


Please tell me that you aren't calling for him to be assassinated, are you?

Assange is an Australian citizen. Murdering high profile citizens of one of the US's allies is not a recommended way to stay friends and influence people or countries.

Leave that stuff to the Israelis. They have a long and very undistinguished track record of plumbing the depths of human behaviour when dealing with political opponents.

I'd like to believe the US is better than that.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Wikileaks - 12/3/2010 10:03:06 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Me, what I love most of all is that all these governments, and their various spooks, oglers, geeks and general professional paranoids, are getting hoist by their own petard. Assange and his team are like the Robin Hoods of information: they steal from the information-rich and give it to the information-poor. We in the UK have more cameras trained on us than anywhere else in the world - I'm bound to feel a big dose of glee. Governments just love to surveil people - but, oh, they hate it when people surveil them back. They want info on us - as much as they can get - but they really don't want us private citizens having info on them.

Well, tough shit. What we have here is a movement for the democratisation of surveillance. I do understand the need for national secrets to be kept secret - but I also understand that governments and their lackeys need to be watched and controlled by us, the people who made them our governments, and who are their masters. If they stop lying, and stop being corrupt, maybe people like Assange will go away. If they don't . . . well, there are plenty of others willing and able to take Assange's place. Governments aren't going to win this war of information against private citizens - that's now very clear. They'll just have to clean up their acts, instead. What a shame.


Total agreement.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Wikileaks - 12/3/2010 10:06:48 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Assange is an Australian citizen. Murdering high profile citizens of one of the US's allies is not a recommended way to stay friends and influence people or countries.

It's just wrong, period.

It's really sad to see someone from America take a stance like that. This is suppose to be a nation where law and order is upheld in a democratic fashion.

BTW...This was about what popeye said..Just in agreement with you.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/3/2010 11:01:53 AM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 80
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