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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:20:13 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Only Palestine and Israel can make piece…what the UN…or Bolivia…or China…or Iran thinks of the situation means nothing.

But I do understand Hamas is looking for freedom fighters… you should join and make a difference.

Butch



What about what the US thinks? Is that important?

I think you are only right in a very minor sense. What other parties think, I agree, is unimportant. What they do as a result of their thinking is absolutely vital.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:27:34 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		hertz, I am the US.

I think we should leave them alone, COMPLETELY.

So did George and Thom, John and that other guy too.

T

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:38:52 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Sorry, Term,of course you are. I don't mean to paint all of you with the same brush - it's just shorthand for the various US administrations that have armed Israel to the teeth and given their racist governments the impression that anything goes. I have met some really good people with US passports in their pockets. The only Israeli I have met is Uri Geller (fact), and, well, 'nuff said, I think.

Apologies...

I would like to meet those other guys, though...

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 2:19:16 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Got a time machine?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 2:34:22 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Sorry, Term,of course you are. I don't mean to paint all of you with the same brush"

No worries. We all get that from time to time, sometimes it is inevitable. But if you want any notion at all what your average sheeple thinks over here don't ask me. I have a joke, I may have used it before :

I used to wonder what went throught people's minds, but no more. I have figured out that NOTHING goes through their minds. Nothing at all.

T

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 4:00:11 AM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Got a time machine?


That was the clue I needed!

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 4:06:19 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		While we are on the subject of not stereotyping people, it is so important to note that not all Israelis or even all Jews support the official Israeli line.

There are lots of people and organisations inside Israel committed to human rights and a just peace with the Palestinians. Even within the IDF, there are courageous Israelis who refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories.

The blind monolithic allegiance of the Diaspora for current Israeli policy is being shattered by organisations like J Street and Jewish Voices for Peace. Zionism is being openly questioned and often rejected by younger generations who retain a commitment to both supporting the existence of Israel and human rights, justice and peace.

Very positive developments IMHO. Another step along the road to peace and justice for all.



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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 6:33:18 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I just wanted to be sure of the position being adopted by some of you, that's all. It sounds to me as if you are conceding that Israel is in fact not interested in peace, but in mitigation, you are claiming that past history gives them sufficient excuse.

I guess then that the recognition of Palestine by the South American countries is the start of the only way this is going to be resolved.

Israel has not kept to its obligations either. In this regard it is at least as bad as the various Palestinian factions.

Try this again.

Isreal negotiated with the Palestinians. Israel fulfilled their obligations according to the time tables laid out long after the Palestinains failed to do anyuthing they were committed to doing.

Israel is clearly interested in peace and was willing to give the arabs a state that did not include the Western Wall. The arabs are the ones who are uninterested in peace.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 6:52:25 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz


Israel has not kept to its obligations either. In this regard it is at least as bad as the various Palestinian factions.

Try this again.

Isreal negotiated with the Palestinians. Israel fulfilled their obligations according to the time tables laid out long after the Palestinains failed to do anyuthing they were committed to doing.

Israel is clearly interested in peace and was willing to give the arabs a state that did not include the Western Wall. The arabs are the ones who are uninterested in peace.


How many times has Israel agreed to cease construction in its illegal colonies in West Bank over the years?

Still hasn't happened.

Today, the official Israeli position is that Israel refuses to stop construction in its colonies even for peace talks. Thus the recent round of peace talks collapsed. Every nation in the world recognises that the illegal colonies are a major impediment to peace.

That's not just a failure by Israel to honour to its commitments, that's going backwards.

There is no viable peace without the full return of the West Bank to a Palestinian State. As willbeurdaddy made crystal clear, Israel doesn't want peace - it wants the West Bank.

Actions speak much louder than anyone's spin.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/11/2010 7:05:57 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 8:58:29 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		The settlements are neither illegal nor colonies.

Settlement construction has been stopped several times and many settlements were evacuated and turned over to the Palestinians. Still no peace.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 10:45:14 AM   
luckydawg


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quote:

The blind monolithic allegiance of the Diaspora for current Israeli policy is being shattered by organisations like J Street and Jewish Voices for Peace. Zionism is being openly questioned and often rejected by younger generations who retain a commitment to both supporting the existence of Israel and human rights, justice and peace.



This sentance is utter nonsense.

If one rejects Zionism, they no longer support the existance of Israel. By definition.

Which is of course what Tweak, Hertz and Termny want.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 10:47:04 AM   
CerVeza


Posts: 156
Joined: 10/13/2010
Status: offline 		One of the many things that mystifies me is how seemingly intelligent jews in the USA can support leftists, who side with the enemies of israel.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 10:49:07 AM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		Tweak is of course lying once again.


Israel does not want the West Bank.

Israel does want Jerusalem and its suburbs.

That is only a fraction of the West Bank, and it was held by the arabs for the first 30 years of Israels existance.

And it was used as a base to make war by the Palestinians and their allies.

and they lost.

They can have a state when ever they like,

But they will never get Jerusalem, ever.

Thier choice.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 11:04:53 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CerVeza

One of the many things that mystifies me is how seemingly intelligent jews in the USA can support leftists, who side with the enemies of israel.

One thing that mystifies me is how anyone can lump all leftists together on this subject. There are anti Israel leftists just like there are anti Israel right wingers.


(in reply to CerVeza)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 12:39:31 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

Palestine recognised by South American nations.

But in other news the US still doesn't recognise where Canada is.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:25:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

quote:

The blind monolithic allegiance of the Diaspora for current Israeli policy is being shattered by organisations like J Street and Jewish Voices for Peace. Zionism is being openly questioned and often rejected by younger generations who retain a commitment to both supporting the existence of Israel and human rights, justice and peace.



This sentance is utter nonsense.

If one rejects Zionism, they no longer support the existance of Israel. By definition.

Which is of course what Tweak, Hertz and Termny want.

Israel tends to have zionist governments. It doesn't follow from that that it's very existence is dependent on zionism, though. You could have a non zionist Israel quite happily*.
The assertion that Israel is by definition a zionist entity seems to be very popular with the more lunatic elements of the Arab world. The thought that the Americans they want to see just as dead as every man woman and child in Israel agree with that notion is a bit depressing, really. I'd have thought the unscheduled demolitions in 2001 might have been a bit of a hint that these people aren't on your side, and haven't been your enemy's enemy since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

*(Whether such an Israel would have survived the six day war is a whole other matter, of course...)

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:30:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

AFAIK they haven't anyone here who openly speaks for them yet

One of the nicer things about peace is that it makes such voices irrelevant.


They dont need anyone here to speak for them, theyve done plenty of speaking for themsevles. You might start with their Charter.

Its those voices and support for them that make peace impossible.



< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/11/2010 1:31:46 PM >

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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 1:42:33 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CerVeza

One of the many things that mystifies me is how seemingly intelligent jews in the USA can support leftists, who side with the enemies of israel.


Its roots are in the New Deal, which was consistent with Jewish ideals of social justice. Jewish populations are also largely urban where leftism is the predominant ideology.

I agree though, that the fact that their allegiances havent evolved with the changes in the Democratic party, however, is inexplicable as the black Democrat voting block (pre-Obama).

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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 2:02:24 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Israel, despite Domken's protestations, has not stuck with the agreements it has made, it continues to support what the whole world recognises are illegal settlements

quote:

Settlement construction has been stopped several times and many settlements were evacuated and turned over to the Palestinians. Still no peace.


I understand it is Israeli practice to destroy any buildings before withdrawing. What gets handed back to the Palestinians is their own land with rubble strewn across it, which cannot be cleared for lack of resources, courtesy of the blockade. Maybe you can provide a link to a news report to back up your claim?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/11/2010 2:17:39 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

AFAIK they haven't anyone here who openly speaks for them yet

One of the nicer things about peace is that it makes such voices irrelevant.


They dont need anyone here to speak for them, theyve done plenty of speaking for themsevles. You might start with their Charter.

Its those voices and support for them that make peace impossible.




Here's a voice that attempts to make peace impossible:

"No, the real tragedy of the whole situation is that people still think that there IS a non-military soluton. Centuries of hate and genocide in the name of a religion that wishes it was still the 13th century will NEVER be reversed diplomatically." (emphasis added)

That voice belongs to you willbeurdaddy (Post#58, this thread).*







*There is a possibility that you have changed your mind in the last few days. If so please let me be the first here to welcome that change of mind.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/11/2010 2:32:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 80
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