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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 2:44:51 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Why is the Israelis taking their ball home with them after being ordered off the court a problem?


Is that your way of saying that Yes, the Israelis did destroy all the houses in the settlements, and DomKen's assertion that the buildings were handed to the Palestinians as a free gift is wrong?


All buildings were not destroyed. Synagogues, greenhouses (I donated money to insure that they were turned over intact) and some other structures were turned over intact.

It appears that all those structures were destroyed by the palestinains. So that does put the lie to the claims that the palestinians were left with nothing but rubble.


You have been wrong throughout this thread DomKen, and you continue to be wrong. The settlements were not handed over to the Palestinians as you claimed. Neve Decalim was not handed over intact as you claimed. Netzarim is not 'still there' as you claimed. The Palestinians did not destroy the settlements as you claimed - the IDF did. The Greenhouses were not destroyed as you claim - they were damaged by looters, but they were not destroyed.

The Synagogues were left, and they were destroyed. This is the only point you have been correct about. You are hanging on to a hopeless argument out of - well, I don't know what. The facts stand for themselves and are well documented. Why are you deliberately looking the other way? I thought you at least were able to accept fact. It appears I was wrong.



(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 2:59:35 PM   
hertz


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This looks like a snowball that is picking up a bit of speed...

quote:

More S. American countries may recognize 'Palestine'

By Herb Keinon 12/10/2010 01:55

Israeli officials concerned Mexico, Ecuador and El Salvador poised to follow Brazilian lead and acknowledge full sovereignty of PA for first time. Talkbacks (19)   With Uruguay poised to soon join Brazil and Argentina in formally recognizing a Palestinian state, Jerusalem is worried several other Latin American countries may follow suit.

Israel is not, however, overly concerned that Western democracies actually involved in the diplomatic process in the region will take similar measures.

Among the countries Israel feels may now follow the Brazilian and Argentinean leads are Mexico, Ecuador and El Salvador.
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=198834





< Message edited by hertz -- 12/12/2010 3:00:40 PM >

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 3:07:54 PM   
Moonhead


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No reason that any of those countries would want to spite Israel's bitch up North, is there?

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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 3:15:45 PM   
hertz


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Well the way I see it, they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Is that about right?

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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 3:17:54 PM   
Slavehandsome


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The problem is, much like the Palestinians, they voted the wrong way.

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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 3:20:03 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

The problem is, much like the Palestinians, they voted the wrong way.


Ain't that the truth?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 3:51:18 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Well the way I see it, they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Is that about right?

Not even close no.

I just thought I'd point out that a lot of South American countries (and certainly all of those named) have issues with the yanks, and apparently aren't turning their nose up at using to Israel to have a go at the 'States. Hardly surprising from El Salvador or Brazil, though I am a bit taken aback that Venezuela hasn't joined in yet. You'd have thought Chavez would be right up for this.

I'm not sure the right and wrong thing really stands up when one country's recognising another to take a pop at a third through yet another. I suspect there's more of an attempt to embarrass somebody than nobility to such a thing, dig?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 4:12:24 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Jewish populations are also largely urban where leftism is the predominant ideology.

Somebody hasn't seen "The Fiddler On The Roof"...


I love that movie


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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/12/2010 10:25:32 PM   
tweakabelle


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Here's an original take on the origins of morality

http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/84.html?newscategoryid=2&newsstoryid=6160

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 3:17:27 AM   
tweakabelle


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OOOPs! sorry people, that last post is on the wrong thread!

Please ignore it !

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/13/2010 3:18:14 AM >


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RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 7:30:40 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Jewish populations are also largely urban where leftism is the predominant ideology.

Somebody hasn't seen "The Fiddler On The Roof"...


I love that movie


It suits Topol a lot better than Flash Gordon did, doesn't it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 11:27:56 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Well the way I see it, they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Is that about right?

Wow, you mean South American nations with a history of fascist leanings and repeated conflicts with the US might be anti semitic and anti american? Next thing you know people will be saying there is a quaint bavarian village in argentina full of nazis and descendants of nazis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Argentine

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 1:50:32 PM   
hertz


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Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Well the way I see it, they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Is that about right?

Wow, you mean South American nations with a history of fascist leanings and repeated conflicts with the US might be anti semitic and anti american? Next thing you know people will be saying there is a quaint bavarian village in argentina full of nazis and descendants of nazis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Argentine


So - they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:00:15 PM   
Moonhead


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"Dagoes".
If you're going to use racial epiphets, get them right, eh?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:14:03 PM   
evedforuse


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What a crock of ignorant fools populate this board. There was never an Arab Palestine. None! Zippo! No culture! No National Flag! No currency. Transient Arabs working for absentee Arab landlords. There were always Jews living there and the Arabs were constantly murdering as many Jews as possible. The Mufti pledged allegiance to Hitler and promised to kill as many Jews as he could. When the Jews began developing the land Arabs moved in because there was work to be had. Read Mark Twain and you will learn how desolate the land was prior to the Jewish immigration. There was no cry for an Arab State until AFTER 1967 when modern Israel RECAPTURED what they were supposed to have from its inception in 1948. The Arabs co-opted the term "Palestinian" which had ALWAYS referred to Jews and began a marketing campaign. Pseudo-intellectuals such as termyn8or can't see past their own fallacies and pick and choose what fits their own false beliefs. Every country does what is good for themselves and Israel is no different. The truth is: The Arabs do not deserve a State of their own until they stop raising their children to hate Israelis. They don't deserve a State until they commit to peace. It's NOT Israel that refuses to negotiate. It's the Arabs who have not given up their hope of driving the Jews into the Med. And it is people like those on this board that provide the fuel for their hopes. The Arabs know that as long as there are fools like on this board they can: accuse the Jews of killing babies to use as matzoh, placing sharks in the Red Sea to hurt tourism, poisoning the water supply and other garbage just to win the PR war. Al-Dura? A Hoax! But who cares that a little Arab boy was used as fodder for World Opinion. What is important is that 5 million Arab refugees created by Arab Hatred of Jews be granted their "rights' to live in their own State. Not the 22 other Arab States that already exist but lets take the tiny State of Israel and slice it in half so the two can live side by side in peaceful harmony. sort of like how the Gazan Arabs live so peacefully firing rockets daily and trying to kidnap Israelis daily. Oh, Darn it! The Gazan Arabs are occupied! Yep, living under their own rule and firing rockets at schoolchildren means they are occupied. Why should Israel not trust them to import only fruits and vegetables? You know the sad truth: The Arabs you all pine for ALL HATE you for your kinky desires. Try living openly in Gaza as a sub or a Domme and they will kill you within hours. Try being gay or trans-sexual in an Arab country and you will find death greeting you. But your hatred of Jews is SO great that you prefer to defend those who will kill you over those who would not. Yep! You are not anti-Semitic in the least! Just STUPID!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:20:04 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

"Dagoes".
If you're going to use racial epiphets, get them right, eh?


I'm more used to abusing Jews, so you'll have to excuse my inexperience...

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:21:17 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evedforuse

What a crock of ignorant fools populate this board. There was never an Arab Palestine. None! Zippo! No culture! No National Flag! No currency. Transient Arabs working for absentee Arab landlords. There were always Jews living there and the Arabs were constantly murdering as many Jews as possible. The Mufti pledged allegiance to Hitler and promised to kill as many Jews as he could. When the Jews began developing the land Arabs moved in because there was work to be had. Read Mark Twain and you will learn how desolate the land was prior to the Jewish immigration. There was no cry for an Arab State until AFTER 1967 when modern Israel RECAPTURED what they were supposed to have from its inception in 1948. The Arabs co-opted the term "Palestinian" which had ALWAYS referred to Jews and began a marketing campaign. Pseudo-intellectuals such as termyn8or can't see past their own fallacies and pick and choose what fits their own false beliefs. Every country does what is good for themselves and Israel is no different. The truth is: The Arabs do not deserve a State of their own until they stop raising their children to hate Israelis. They don't deserve a State until they commit to peace. It's NOT Israel that refuses to negotiate. It's the Arabs who have not given up their hope of driving the Jews into the Med. And it is people like those on this board that provide the fuel for their hopes. The Arabs know that as long as there are fools like on this board they can: accuse the Jews of killing babies to use as matzoh, placing sharks in the Red Sea to hurt tourism, poisoning the water supply and other garbage just to win the PR war. Al-Dura? A Hoax! But who cares that a little Arab boy was used as fodder for World Opinion. What is important is that 5 million Arab refugees created by Arab Hatred of Jews be granted their "rights' to live in their own State. Not the 22 other Arab States that already exist but lets take the tiny State of Israel and slice it in half so the two can live side by side in peaceful harmony. sort of like how the Gazan Arabs live so peacefully firing rockets daily and trying to kidnap Israelis daily. Oh, Darn it! The Gazan Arabs are occupied! Yep, living under their own rule and firing rockets at schoolchildren means they are occupied. Why should Israel not trust them to import only fruits and vegetables? You know the sad truth: The Arabs you all pine for ALL HATE you for your kinky desires. Try living openly in Gaza as a sub or a Domme and they will kill you within hours. Try being gay or trans-sexual in an Arab country and you will find death greeting you. But your hatred of Jews is SO great that you prefer to defend those who will kill you over those who would not. Yep! You are not anti-Semitic in the least! Just STUPID!


Wow! What a great first post. It smells of socks...

(in reply to evedforuse)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:36:02 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:


U.S. and Israeli diplomats agreed that the increasingly strained relationship between Turkey and Israel derives mostly from Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s hatred of the Jewish state, according to embassy cables posted by WikiLeaks.org.

Israeli Ambassador to Turkey Gabby Levy described Erdogan as a “fundamentalist” who “hates us religiously” in a 2009 meeting with U.S. Ambassador James F. Jeffrey in Ankara, according to a cable sent from the U.S. embassy on Oct. 27 that year and released by WikiLeaks.

“Our discussions with contacts both inside and outside of the Turkish government on Turkey’s deteriorating relations with Israel tend to confirm Levy’s thesis that Erdogan simply hates Israel,” the U.S. embassy said.

Erdogan has been critical of Israel since its military operation in Gaza that began in December 2008, which the Turkish premier called “a crime against humanity.” Ties reached a low after Israeli commandos killed nine Turks in a raid on an aid ship headed for the Gaza Strip in May.

Levy said he was urged by Turkish officials to put up with Erdogan’s criticisms of Israel since they were “for domestic political consumption,” and received a message from Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu telling him that “things will get better,” according to the cable.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-26/turkey-s-erdogan-proposes-borderless-middle-east-sabah-says.html


Courtesy of Wikileaks, here's a perfect example of how legitimate criticism of Israel gets rationalised away as "hatred of Israel" (read: anti-Semitism). Here, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan's critical attitude towards Israel is analysed by US diplomats, with some 'help' from the Israeli Ambassador.

Despite noting the Turkish PM's trenchant criticism of the 2008 invasion of Gaza as a "crime against humanity", this factor is discounted/not considered as a potential cause of antagonism towards Israel. Among other relevant factors the US diplomats chose to ignore/refused to consider are:
*Israel's long and brutal occupation of Palestine;
*Numerous atrocities and war crimes committed by Israeli forces over the years;
*Turkish hostility to Israeli policies is shared by every other nation in the region;
*Israel's relentless expansion and its goal of securing the West Bank in toto before settling for peace;
*The overwhelming support of the Turkish people for their PM's position on Israel (democracy, what democracy?);
*For the rest of the world, outside of the US and Israel itself, opposition to Israeli policies is standard and quasi-universal and no explication is needed by any informed observer;
and many many more potential grounds for legitimate opposition to Israeli policy.

Instead, the US diplomats chose to accept unquestioningly the suggestion of the oh-so-objective and oh-so-disinterested Israeli Ambassador that Erdogan's position is down to hate. No evidence to support this claim is cited. This farcical interpretation is then sent back to the US for domestic consumption.

Mind-boggling stupidity.

If one of my students entered a piece of analysis as superficial and shoddy as this, they would certainly get an F for fail! But an excellent example of how the hate card gets played despite there being far more compelling coherent explanations available. And why, outside of Israel and a well-meaning but gullible US, this over-used canard has long ceased to have any credibility or currency. And how the sincerity of US citizens is cynically manipulated by pro-Israeli interests.

Which is truly a shame, as there are some anti-Semitic elements in some criticisms of Israel by a minority of its critics and this needs to be addressed as such. By continuously playing the hate card, Israeli apologists (just like the little boy who cried wolf) have only succeeded in devaluing it to the point of meaninglessness.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/13/2010 2:44:49 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:52:05 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
legitimate criticism? Maybe but do not try and white wash facts. Erdogan is a fundamentalist Muslim who has expressed repeatedly his desire to eliminate Israel. He has also allied his party with the syrian government (well known sponsors of terror).

Turkey is likely to be the next islamic nation to fall to a theocratic revolution and it is mostly the fault of the AK Party (ne Welfare Party which was banned).

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Palestine recognised by South American nations. - 12/13/2010 2:53:21 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Well the way I see it, they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Is that about right?

Wow, you mean South American nations with a history of fascist leanings and repeated conflicts with the US might be anti semitic and anti american? Next thing you know people will be saying there is a quaint bavarian village in argentina full of nazis and descendants of nazis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Argentine


So - they're either anti-Semites or anti-American. There's no way those daygos could be acting out of any sense of right or wrong...

Where did I say anything of the sort? Why do you continue to make up lies about others?

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 120
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