quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I find it quite interesting that people seem to think a singular thing (health care) is the end all be all of longevity. As to "tests that don't need to be done" I'm of the understanding that those extra tests are done to increase certainty and also because unlike ALL other countries in the WORLD we have hospitals with more and better tech.

Our mortality/morbidity rates do not support your last statement.

Many of those extra tests are to prevent or to support the Dr in a lawsuit. Nothing more.

Reread my statements and think about it. Then get back to me.

quote:

The UK is top in many fields of medicine.

quote:

Are you suggesting other countries dont have our technology?

quote:

Are you arrogant enough to believe that only the US hospitals can find cures?

quote:

If what you are trying to say is true, why is the US ranked below so many countries in health care year after year?

quote:

I read it well the first time.

quote:

My position isnt changing.

quote:

Of course other countries don't have our technology or the quantities of it. That's a given. Now would you like to quantify that by specifying a technology(ies) or country(ies)? I think the UK, like Canada, will have most of our technology and perhaps even some we may not but their per capita is crap.

quote:

http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf

I think you should read this. Per this study by the University of Maine, the US health care system is "the most expensive health care system in the world, based on health care expenditures per capita (per person) and on total expenditures as a percentage of GDP."

quote:

Just because we spend more doesnt mean its better.

quote:

We are ranked 33 and 46, depending on which source you use, in infant mortality rates... and both lists have us behind sountries like Cuba, waaaaaaay beneath South Korea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

quote:


By any measure, the United States spends more on health care than any other nation. Yet according to the World Fact Book (published by the Central Intelligence Agency), it ranks 49th in life expectancy.

quote:


Researchers writing in the November issue of the journal Health Affairs say they know the answer. After citing statistical evidence showing that American patterns of obesity, smoking, traffic accidents and homicide are not the cause of lower life expectancy, they conclude that the problem is the health care system.

Life expectancy increased over those years in all 13 countries, and so did health care costs. But the United States had the lowest increase in life expectancy and the highest increase in costs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/health/30life.html
 

quote:

The findings undercut critics who might argue that the US health care system is not in need of major changes.

quote:

In terms of longevity, the US ranks 36, tied with Cuba, well below Germany, Switzerland, Canada and the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

quote:

I find it quite interesting that people seem to think a singular thing (health care) is the end all be all of longevity.

quote:

The researchers say those numbers present an accurate picture of public health because they measure a country’s success in preventing and treating the most common causes of death — cardiovascular disease, stroke and diabetes

quote:

Sorry I'm late in my replay. I have things to do other than cruise a forum 24/7.

1. Topic A is under discussion.
   
2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
   
3. Topic A is abandoned.

quote:

I call red herring because I don't feel like explaining why your unrelated facts are such.

quote:

things that are HUGELY effected by lifestyle choices.  The health care system can educate and attempt to help when someone ignores its advice but it cannot prevent bad decision making which is largely what "prevention" is about. That falls to the individual. Were you to look at statistics related to over all health (not health care) of the U.S.A. population and compare it to other nations you would perhaps begin to see that it's a damn miracle that we live so long. Why? Because our health care is so damn good at catching us after we fuck up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the number of deaths of infants under one year old per 1,000 live births. This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country.

quote:

The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).

quote:

United States of America 72

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Those who claim there in no precedent for the govt. requiring individuals to maintain insurance should read the Militia Act of 1792.

"I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes."

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

Are you saying that pointing out your errors of attribution and logic and otherwise destroying your arguments won't change your mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Life expectancy low.

Infant mortality rates low.

How many other indicators do you need to see?

quote:

Take out the misleading infant mortality rate and murder, which obviously has nothing to do with the health care system,

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Insisting that those two are misleading is assinine, something i have come to expect from you. Other countries also have infant deaths and murders. Putting the US back where we are when removing those factors from other countries too.