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RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:18:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Insisting that those two are misleading is assinine, something i have come to expect from you. Other countries also have infant deaths and murders. Putting the US back where we are when removing those factors from other countries too.

quote:

Take out the misleading infant mortality rate and murder, which obviously has nothing to do with the health care system,


Why would you assume infant mortality has nothing to do with health care?


I didnt. I said murder has nothing to do with the health care system. If I had included IM it would have been written "neither of which...." and "have" not "has"

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/22/2010 10:21:11 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:23:12 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Those who claim there in no precedent for the govt. requiring individuals to maintain insurance should read the Militia Act of 1792.




And when we open our pocket Constitution to Article I, Section 8, we find exactly what Constitutional authority for the Congress to pass such a law? There does seem to be a bit there...


To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


Seems pretty clear and specific to me where they got the authority to do that. So. What have you got for the healthcare thing?



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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:24:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Insisting that those two are misleading is assinine, something i have come to expect from you. Other countries also have infant deaths and murders. Putting the US back where we are when removing those factors from other countries too.

quote:

Take out the misleading infant mortality rate and murder, which obviously has nothing to do with the health care system,


Why would you assume infant mortality has nothing to do with health care?


I didnt. I said murder has nothing to do with the health care system. If I had included IM it would have been written "neither of which...." and "have" not "has"


Ok. Then why did you say its misleading?

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:26:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Insisting that those two are misleading is assinine, something i have come to expect from you. Other countries also have infant deaths and murders. Putting the US back where we are when removing those factors from other countries too.

quote:

Take out the misleading infant mortality rate and murder, which obviously has nothing to do with the health care system,


Why would you assume infant mortality has nothing to do with health care?


I didnt. I said murder has nothing to do with the health care system. If I had included IM it would have been written "neither of which...." and "have" not "has"


Ok. Then why did you say its misleading?



See post 92

and

this

and this from the CBO:

SUMMARY

In the United States--as in other industrialized countries--the infant mortality rate has declined dramatically during this century. Yet, despite the high quality and widespread availability of neonatal intensive care technology in this country, the infant mortality rate remains higher than that of many developed nations.

Problems of definition and measurement, however, hamper cross-national comparisons of health statistics. Alternative measures of infant mortality may provide better information but cannot completely compensate for differences among countries in the overall rates of reporting of adverse pregnancy outcomes. For example, very premature births are more likely to be included in birth and mortality statistics in the United States than in several other industrialized countries that have lower infant mortality rates.

Low birthweight is the primary risk factor for infant mortality and most of the decline in neonatal mortality (deaths of infants less than 28 days old) in the United States since 1970 can be attributed to increased rates of survival among low-birthweight newborns. Indeed, comparisons with countries for which data are available suggest that low birthweight newborns have better chances of survival in the United States than elsewhere. The U.S. infant mortality problem arises primarily because of its birthweight distribution; relatively more infants are born at low birthweight in the United States than in most other industrialized countries. Unfortunately, little progress has been made in reducing U.S. low birthweight rates, which would further improve infant mortality rates.



< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/22/2010 10:40:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:51:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the number of deaths of infants under one year old per 1,000 live births. This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country.



Often misused as an indicator of the level of health. It doesnt take into account the level of at risk pregnancies, survival to birth of babies that would have been stillborn in other countries, and differing standards from country to country of what is counted as an infant death.


Pregnancies at risk do not change from country to country. They all have their own levels of risk. Being pregant is its own risk. Countries with a high risk of HIV, for example. Others with drug use. Still others who spend way less on health per capita than the US does.

Low birthweight is the primary risk factor for infant mortality and most of the decline in neonatal mortality in the United States since 1970 can be attributed to increased rates of survival among low-birthweight newborns. Comparisons with countries for which data are available suggest that low birthweight newborns have better chances of survival in the United States than elsewhere. The U.S. infant mortality problem arises because of its birthweight distribution; relatively more infants are born at low birthweight in the United States than in most other industrialized countries.

Because of the high quality and widespread availability of neonatal intensive care in the United States, a low-birthweight baby born in this country probably has a better chance of surviving than anywhere else in the world. Nonetheless, during the 1986-1988 period, more than 10 of every 1,000 infants born in the United States died before they were a year old. This infant mortality rate was higher than those of many developed nations--including countries with significantly lower gross national products per capita, such as Ireland and Spain. A society's infant mortality rate is considered an important indicator of its health status, because infant mortality is associated with socioeconomic status, access to health care, and the health status of women of childbearing age. In addition, it is one of the few measures of health status for which data are widely available in most developed countries.

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=6219&type=0

Deaths among children younger than 1 year old increased for the first time in more than 40 years, according to a report, "America's Health: State Health Rankings," published in November. The rate increased from 6.8 per 1,000 in 2001 to 7 per 1,000 in 2002 -- a far cry from the Healthy People 2010 goal of 4.5 per 1,000.

A commentary in the report attributed the increases to the growing number of multiple births caused by improvements in assisted reproductive technology. Improvements in neonatal intensive care lead many more sick newborns to survive initially. This advance, however, has not necessarily translated to survival through the first year of life.

"It's not just a matter of delivering care to sick babies better, and we may have done all we can in that area," Dr. Kattwinkel said. "We need to go back earlier than that to prevent babies from being sick."

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/12/06/hlsb1206.htm

So with all we spend on neonatal care, all the advances we have made in health care, all the billions of dollars we pour into the system... we are not getting any better at preventing deaths.

How do countries such as Spain and Ireland do better, and spend less, than we do?

Spain offers a national health care that is free, so does Ireland. So do many other developed nations. The spend far less, yet have better results.

Im still waiting on someone to explain that.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 10:54:01 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl




Pregnancies at risk do not change from country to country.


Proof again that you dont know what the fuck youre talking about. [/thread]

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/22/2010 11:06:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL... of course not darlin. Only worked Labor and Delivery for 9 years. But i have no clue about high risk pregnancies or infant mortality rates.

quote:

Around 80% of pregnancies are low-risk. Factors that may make a birth high risk include prematurity, high blood pressure, gestational diabetes and a previous cesarean section.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth

These dont change from country to country. Women in the UK develop pre-eclampsia just as they do in the US. The same with gestational diabetes.

But there are factors that can be present before a woman becomes pregnant, that can cause a high-risk pregnancy. Risk factors for a high-risk pregnancy can include:

Young or old maternal age
Being overweight or underweight
Having had problems in previous pregnancies
Pre-existing health conditions, such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or HIV
Health problems can also develop during a pregnancy that can make it high-risk. Such problems may occur even in a woman who was previously healthy.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/high_risk_pregnancy.cfm

Are you suggesting these change from country to country?

What are some conditions that may cause a high-risk pregnancy?
Preeclampsia and Eclampsia - Preeclampsia is a syndrome that includes high blood pressure, urinary protein, and changes in blood levels of liver enzymes during pregnancy. It can affect the mother’s kidneys, liver, and brain. With treatment, many women will have healthy babies. If left untreated, the condition can be fatal for the mother and/or the baby and can lead to long-term health problems. Eclampsia is a more severe form of preeclampsia that can cause seizures and coma in the mother.


Gestational Diabetes Mellitus (or gestational diabetes) is a type of diabetes that only pregnant women get. If a woman gets diabetes when she is pregnant, but never had it before, then she has gestational diabetes. Many women with gestational diabetes have healthy pregnancies and healthy babies because they follow a treatment plan from their health care provider.


HIV/AIDS kills or damages cells of the body's immune system, progressively destroying the body's ability to fight infections and certain cancers. The term AIDS applies to the most advanced stages of HIV infection.
Women can give HIV to their babies during pregnancy, while giving birth, or through breastfeeding. But, there are effective ways to prevent the spread of mother-to-infant transmission of HIV.

Preterm Labor is labor that begins before 37 weeks of pregnancy. Because the baby is not fully grown at this time, it may not be able to survive outside the womb. Health care providers will often take steps to try to stop labor if it occurs before this time.
Although there is no way to know which women will experience preterm labor or birth, there are factors that place women at higher risk, such as certain infections, a shortened cervix, or previous preterm birth.

Other medical conditions like high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart, breathing, or kidney problems can become more serious during a woman’s pregnancy. Regular prenatal care can help ensure a healthier pregnancy for a woman and her baby.

Do other countries not encounter these disorders?

Im curious as to your experience in this field.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/22/2010 11:26:48 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/23/2010 12:14:12 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL... of course not darlin. Only worked Labor and Delivery for 9 years. But i have no clue about high risk pregnancies or infant mortality rates.

quote:

Around 80% of pregnancies are low-risk. Factors that may make a birth high risk include prematurity, high blood pressure, gestational diabetes and a previous cesarean section.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth

These dont change from country to country. Women in the UK develop pre-eclampsia just as they do in the US. The same with gestational diabetes.

But there are factors that can be present before a woman becomes pregnant, that can cause a high-risk pregnancy. Risk factors for a high-risk pregnancy can include:

Young or old maternal age
Being overweight or underweight
Having had problems in previous pregnancies
Pre-existing health conditions, such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or HIV
Health problems can also develop during a pregnancy that can make it high-risk. Such problems may occur even in a woman who was previously healthy.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/high_risk_pregnancy.cfm

Are you suggesting these change from country to country?

What are some conditions that may cause a high-risk pregnancy?
Preeclampsia and Eclampsia - Preeclampsia is a syndrome that includes high blood pressure, urinary protein, and changes in blood levels of liver enzymes during pregnancy. It can affect the mother’s kidneys, liver, and brain. With treatment, many women will have healthy babies. If left untreated, the condition can be fatal for the mother and/or the baby and can lead to long-term health problems. Eclampsia is a more severe form of preeclampsia that can cause seizures and coma in the mother.


Gestational Diabetes Mellitus (or gestational diabetes) is a type of diabetes that only pregnant women get. If a woman gets diabetes when she is pregnant, but never had it before, then she has gestational diabetes. Many women with gestational diabetes have healthy pregnancies and healthy babies because they follow a treatment plan from their health care provider.


HIV/AIDS kills or damages cells of the body's immune system, progressively destroying the body's ability to fight infections and certain cancers. The term AIDS applies to the most advanced stages of HIV infection.
Women can give HIV to their babies during pregnancy, while giving birth, or through breastfeeding. But, there are effective ways to prevent the spread of mother-to-infant transmission of HIV.

Preterm Labor is labor that begins before 37 weeks of pregnancy. Because the baby is not fully grown at this time, it may not be able to survive outside the womb. Health care providers will often take steps to try to stop labor if it occurs before this time.
Although there is no way to know which women will experience preterm labor or birth, there are factors that place women at higher risk, such as certain infections, a shortened cervix, or previous preterm birth.

Other medical conditions like high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart, breathing, or kidney problems can become more serious during a woman’s pregnancy. Regular prenatal care can help ensure a healthier pregnancy for a woman and her baby.

Do other countries not encounter these disorders?

Im curious as to your experience in this field.


My experience in the field was as a health care consultant and claims auditor. And you arent stupid, so you can only be disingenous buy pretending that we arent talking about the RATE of at risk pregancies (and there are hundreds of links that discuss the higher rate of at risk pregnancies in the US).

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/23/2010 3:12:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Oh?

Black women face higher risk of pregnancy complications
Last updated 04 March 2009

UK black women have double the risk of pregnancy complications, research suggest.

A report published on bmj.com claims that black Caribbean and African women in the UK have twice as much risk of experiencing problems as white women.

The study also found that Pakistani women have a significantly higher risk of severe pregnancy-related health problems, backing up previous studies carried out in the US, Canada and The Netherlands.

Scientists in the UK investigated 686 cases of severe pregnancy-related complications out of a total of 775,186 maternities between February 2005 and February 2006.

Complications experienced by the women included hysterectomy after childbirth, fits with high blood pressure (eclampsia) or blood clots in the lungs (pulmonary embolism).

The scientists found that non-white woman are one and-a-half times more at risk of experiencing problems than white women, and the risks double for black Caribbean and black African women.

The authors conclude that for white women, the risk of severe complications is around 80 cases per 100,000 maternities, 126 cases for non-white women as a whole, 188 cases for black African women and 196 for black Caribbean women.

NEARLY HALF OF ALL BIRTHS IN PHILIPPINES CONSIDERED HIGH-RISK
Date : Tuesday, August 16, 2005
Source : Asia Pulse
DATELINE: MANILA, Aug 16
Nearly half of all births in the country are considered high-risk, mainly attributed to
premature pregnancy and inavailability of family planning services, a national survey
said.
"Many women are conceiving without the necessary information they need to achieve a
healthy and safe pregnancy. Family planning is necessary not only for the survival of the
baby but also for the well-being of the mother," Commission on Population (POPCOM)
Executive Director Tomas Osias said.
High risk pregnancies are defined as those who conceive too early, too late, too frequent
and too many.

quote:

And you arent stupid, so you can only be disingenous buy pretending that we arent talking about the RATE of at risk pregancies (and there are hundreds of links that discuss the higher rate of at risk pregnancies in the US).


Your correct, im not stupid. But you are rather arrogant in your belief and your statistical analysis that the US is supreme even in this area. Many South American countries have age groups of 15 and younger married and having children. HIV is definitely more of risk factor there.

Improving care for pregnant women and their babies is of particular importance in countries such as The Netherlands where perinatal mortality is a cause for concern. The Netherlands has a perinatal mortality rate of 9.8 per 1000 (2006 figures) – the second highest rate in Europe [1]

Dr Robbert van Oppenraaij told the 25th annual meeting of the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology in Amsterdam on June 29 that he and his colleagues from the UK, Denmark and Spain had reviewed 75 studies carried out between 1980-2008 that looked at the impact of early pregnancy complications

Compared to the US rate ...

quote:

The U.S. fetal mortality rate was 6.22 fetal deaths of 20 weeks of gestation or more per 1000 live births and fetal deaths, not significantly different from the rate of 6.20 in 2004 or 6.23 in 2003.


To be honest, willbe, i did not find the hundreds of links you claimed were available to prove your position that the US has a higher incidence of high risk pregnancies. Im sure you wouldnt mind sharing a few.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Judge rejects key part of Obama healthcare law - 12/23/2010 9:30:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Why do people in the US pay more and recieve less healthcare?


We dont.



A few simple keystrokes into the net could disabuse you of your ignorance but you seem to prefer having both feet in your mouth at the same time.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 110
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