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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 7:55:45 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I've just been sitting back, watching the volley, but it really has been an interesting thread, and service is a topic that interests me very much.  Here's comes a big ol' post of hot air:

Lady Constanze:  I completely agree with your point about those who pose as domestic servants, but have no passion for it--when the "maid" is more fetish than service, and these folks really aren't difficult to sort out.  My Household sees quite a few "casual" boys and sissy maids who come and go, and it's amazing to me and the Head of Household how the so many of the sissy maids look completely shocked and horrified when, upon their arrival in the Household, their hard-on is greeted with a stack of dirty dishes.  And then two bathrooms.  And dusting. And floors.  And laundry.  If they are complaining before the first stack of dishes is done, we've also figured out that chances are they will be crying by the second cane stroke, and it's around that time that they start vocalizing what they REALLY wanted, but didn't say up front which is typically " I want the Lady of the House to watch me prance around in my sissy outfit, humiliate me, then watch me wank off."  They are thanked for their time, and aren't invited back.

This ties into what LadyNTrainer was saying:   Just be honest about what you want, up front, and save everyone a lot of time.  I have no problem at with "wank maids" as long as they are open about the fact that they are more into the fetish, and less into the actual service of it.   Both have a place in the BDSM world.....but they are two different places, as far as I'm concerned.

Which brings me to LadyPact's comments, about mutually beneficial arrangements vx. service.  I think there are varying degrees of this, and it's apparent to me, from this thread, that we all hold some strong opinions on the matter.  I've served Dommes with absolutely NO sexual or BDSM play (in the way we think of it)--that is, physically speaking, I got nothing out of it.  But emotionally, I found it highly satisfying.  These were Dommes who I adored, were close personal friends--some I would occasionally bottom to, others not-- but either way, I had a special relationship with them.   When I've performed service at the clubs, I took great pride and enjoyment out of serving sodas at the bar, checking coats, and performing various other duties--again, it was a tight knit community, and I knew a majority of the Dommes and Tops.  Service (with no reciprocity, in the physical sense) was enjoyable and something I looked forward to doing.  My rewards were all on the emotional level.

Now....that said.... (good god, yes, there's more....)
Because now I'm virtually starting over since my divorce, I *am* essentially looking for that mutually beneficial arrangement, if you will....to at least keep me happy until I find that special woman to spend the rest of my days with . And that's mostly how I begin the dialogue with strangers--are their needs/wants compatible with mine.  It's really hard for me to submit to someone, service and bottoming, if I they don't get off it in some way.  I want to serve them....but I also have a masochistic bend, and so I search for those who are sadists as well.  Mutually beneficial?  Yes.  My Sir loves spanking/paddling/caning boys til they cry.....and he loves having a domestic servant to keep his place tidy since the Lady of the House doesn't clean at all.  I enjoy serving him in that capacity, take great pride in cleaning their house, and he completely satisfies his need for sadism and mine for corporal punishment.  So I believe that fits a tight definition of mutually beneficial arrangement--we both get immense enjoyment from the interaction. win/win.  

I hate the term "barter"--for me, that implies that you are engaging in an activity that you don't take pleasure from, but do it just to get something from me that you want.  (sort of like the you-scratch-my-itch-and-I'll-scratch-yours...Quid Pro Quo) And that is certainly a dynamic that doesn't work for me at all. 

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 8:23:01 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I posit that there is no difference between what you're saying and service except depth of intent on the personal level and our perception. Technically though there is none.


The issue is less intent than honesty about intent.  The classic example is someone who advertises that he wants to be a sissy maid and to give sissy maid service, to clean house, etc.  He shows up, prances around in costume, asks for a spanking, masturbates and leaves without having done (or being willing to do) any actual cleaning work. The fact that he wanted to enact this kinky scene is not a problem.  The fact that he was not honest about his intent and agenda is a very big problem.  

I'm not saying that everyone should have to do stuff they don't want to do.  If your kink is to dress like a maid and be humiliated and spanked and then masturbate, that's great......now find a partner who also thinks this is hot and agrees to do this scene with you.  You don't have to do housework if you don't want to.  Just find a compatible kinkster and go to town.   But don't tell people that you will if you won't.  Getting to scene with someone by lying to them is not cool. 


quote:

All service no matter how unselfish we think it is has an underlying motivation that's self-gratifyingly driven. Meaning I donate to charities not just to help but also because of how I feel for it. Service in this context is the same way.


And none of that is a problem if both parties are fully on board, informed and consenting.  It's cool to say, "I like this thing, I have this fetish, will you do it with me?"  The problems start happening when people are disingenuous or flat out dishonest about their intent.

When one person is naked and tied up, and the other is standing over them holding a whip, this is a bad time to find out that you have had a significant mismatch of expectations, or that one person has not been honest about communicating their agenda.  Consensual BDSM absolutely requires honesty and clear communication.  If you fail at those things, your scene is not likely to end well. 


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 8:35:59 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Does this sound like a fair deal to you, or like I'm actually offering anyone anything?

What's fair have to do with anything. The guy wants what he wants..Stupid as anyone thinks it is it's still his idea of what works...Just the way life is..Does it work for you or me or Costanza? Nope..it doesn't have to..All the hens in the world getting together on an internet forum casting rights and wrongs isn't gonna make a difference. Some of you come off as if you're the end all of what right is.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 8:42:36 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Oh you mean you are Mistress with "same side"? Because you might not have noticed which board that is...

I decide what I do and I really don't need the advise of somebody who's obviously suffering from a bit of gender confusion, I can't recall that I actually asked for your advise, ya know. But maybe you have more experience with male subs?

Yes yes.

Of course you know different but here you are trying to take simple shots at my meaning. Anyone with and ounce of sense would know I meant Dominant but maybe I was too generous.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 8:55:28 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Does this sound like a fair deal to you, or like I'm actually offering anyone anything?

What's fair have to do with anything. The guy wants what he wants..Stupid as anyone thinks it is it's still his idea of what works...Just the way life is..


I want you to give me a million dollars and a new Corvette.  You should be grateful that I am willing to be of service to you by accepting these things.

Never mind the "fair" part.  That's not important.  But can this reasonably be defined as offering you something or as doing you a service?


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 8:59:30 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

But can this reasonably be defined as offering you something or as doing you a service?

Fuck yeah it can! I could use that money to move to Alaska!

I'll expect you to keep your word..Don't be disingenuous!

Joking aside...I've seen similar scenarios play out for ProDomme's...Man pays everything..As a matter of fact that was for a long time the way society worked between men and women..Man payed. Welcome to the new age..Stop bitching.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/17/2010 9:02:21 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 9:10:43 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
What's fair have to do with anything. The guy wants what he wants..Stupid as anyone thinks it is it's still his idea of what works...Just the way life is..Does it work for you or me or Costanza? Nope..it doesn't have to..All the hens in the world getting together on an internet forum casting rights and wrongs isn't gonna make a difference. Some of you come off as if you're the end all of what right is.


People in hell want ice water.  Doesn't mean that I'm going to provide it. 

It's not about being the end all, be all of the definition of service.  I do know what that definition means in the context of a dynamic that I am running.  I'll even go so far as to say that some people's definition of service doesn't live up to Mine and therefore, they are incompatible with Me because My definition of service is what is required.  Should they find someone who agrees with their definition of service, more power to them.  At the same time, I'm not lowering My expectations.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Icarys)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 9:24:04 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

People in hell want ice water. Doesn't mean that I'm going to provide it.

Well I probably would being they are suffering and all. ~Saint Icarys

quote:

It's not about being the end all, be all of the definition of service. I do know what that definition means in the context of a dynamic that I am running. I'll even go so far as to say that some people's definition of service doesn't live up to Mine and therefore, they are incompatible with Me because My definition of service is what is required. Should they find someone who agrees with their definition of service, more power to them. At the same time, I'm not lowering My expectations.

I don't have a problem with how you've presented yourself nor your idea of what service is. I have a feeling we may be close in those areas. Not exact but close.

The reason I respond to some of these types of threads is because I see what i think is an "attitude" and duality of what's okay for one sex but not for another..Seemingly anyway.

There's another thread going on right now as happens many times throughout the day where someone comes on and states this is how it is. They instantly get bashed and the line grows. usually it comes after a person starts throwing around words like wannabe, true this or that and so on..yet here's the same "attitude" coming out as I see it in an attempt to define service. Just an observation.

Anyway, I've said what I've wanted to on this thread as a whole so no reason to continue and it's getting late so I'll take off.

Have a good night.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/17/2010 10:10:44 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Well I probably would being they are suffering and all. ~Saint Icarys

The job is yours.  It's too big for Me.

quote:

I don't have a problem with how you've presented yourself nor your idea of what service is. I have a feeling we may be close in those areas. Not exact but close.

The reason I respond to some of these types of threads is because I see what i think is an "attitude" and duality of what's okay for one sex but not for another..Seemingly anyway.

There's another thread going on right now as happens many times throughout the day where someone comes on and states this is how it is. They instantly get bashed and the line grows. usually it comes after a person starts throwing around words like wannabe, true this or that and so on..yet here's the same "attitude" coming out as I see it in an attempt to define service. Just an observation.

Anyway, I've said what I've wanted to on this thread as a whole so no reason to continue and it's getting late so I'll take off.

Have a good night.


It wouldn't surprise Me a bit if the definitions were somewhat close.  Same as the position on the matter.  I'd expect you to use your authority as you'd see fit.  In this, I don't see a difference in gender.  It doesn't matter to Me that you're a male Dominant, rather than a female one in this instance.  There is a difference to Me in saying this is how it is and this is how it is for Me.  I actually didn't see anyone on this thread say that their definition for service was universal.

Now, I will tell you something that I have every reason to believe is true.  In a lot of cases, submissives can be more sought after than bottoms.  Don't think that bottoms don't know this and it's exactly where the service ploy can stem from.  It's the projection of appearing to offer more than they are really willing to give.  This isn't the most honest way for someone to present themselves.

Pet the pups goodnight from Me.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:25:52 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys


Of course you know different but here you are trying to take simple shots at my meaning. Anyone with and ounce of sense would know I meant Dominant but maybe I was too generous.



If your definition of dominant is to trying tell dominant women how they should accept applicants that are not suitable, then maybe I was too generous to attribute you with any sense. None of us is actually short of play or guys eager to apply, I realize it doesn't work quite as well for males, but the fact that women have more guys vying for their time and attention doesn't mean we get better "quality".

The only difference is that - if you compare it to restaurants - as a male dominant you are in a place where there aren't a lot of restaurants, for female dominants there are plenty but unfortunately most are fast food. So what you are telling us is that we should forget about proper food and just have a BigMac (though inmost cases it's more like the kiddie menue). Excuse me but we do like to make that distinction ourselves.

When it comes down to playing with somebody who doesn't tick most of the right boxes or not playing, I'd rather grab a good book or hang out with friends. Playing with people I don't want to play would ruin my enjoyment and in the end would lead me to enjoy BDSM play less, it's the difference between a gourmet and a gourmand.

As Lady Hib said, we expect HONESTY, in case the honesty is lacking it's a no go.

The whole dressing it up doesn't work, because how are we going to trust somebody who lies to us? And the slight insult that they think we are so stupid that we won't notice - it doesn't make for a good time, and who would willingly go for a bad time?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Icarys)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:47:45 AM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys


Joking aside...I've seen similar scenarios play out for ProDomme's...Man pays everything..As a matter of fact that was for a long time the way society worked between men and women..Man payed. Welcome to the new age..Stop bitching.




I played as a pro domme part time for years, part of the reason was I got the best training, dungeons with a good reputation tend to train their staff and won't let them do sessions they aren't trained or capable to do. When I discovered BDSM I was like a kid in a toy shop, I wanted to learn and play safe, the place where I was, the life-style crowd was more like kinky swingers, not my thing, so I apprenticed and it did cost me quite a bit. Nobody would even accept you before you hadn't got outfits and toys, which we all know aren't cheap and before I had not mastered different activities to the satisfaction of the headmistress, I was working for free, doubling with others, cleaning, sterilizing, practising my knots and needles on house slaves, near a paying client? Hell no. I liked the variety of play a lot and the fact that I really learned from some of the best. In a way it was very exploitative, you got fined for mistakes, even after having passed the tests, I only saw a fraction of the tribute, but since they told me that from the start, it was fair and it was fair that somebody who taught me was compensated for passing on the knowledge.

I liked the variety you got as a pro and the fact that most of the clients were polite and courteous, a lot more so than the life-style crowd often is... If it was something I didn't really like doing, I could say so and could recommend another domme. Given the quality of people I met and played with, I miss that but I can't go back because it would mess seriously with my vanilla career.

There are guys who want to pay everything, but it is a different dynamic, in a lot of cases you will see that those guys are not paying out of servitude or whatever you want to call it, for some it's an ego kick "I bought her this, that and the other, I can afford to buy her that much...." for other guys it's trying to make the domme dependent on them, a very good way of topping from the bottom.

In my case, and you might call me horribly arrogant here, they are getting something for free that they would pay big money for in a commercial dungeon, so expecting that they foot the rent of a dungeon (which is a fraction of a session) is not out of order.

Let me put it this way, you are building a house, somebody you know is a very skilled stone mason who gives you a feature for your house, brings his own tools, you wouldn't expect him to also buy the materials for your house, would you?


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Icarys)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 8:02:04 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
  In a lot of cases, submissives can be more sought after than bottoms.  Don't think that bottoms don't know this and it's exactly where the service ploy can stem from.  It's the projection of appearing to offer more than they are really willing to give.  This isn't the most honest way for someone to present themselves.

Pet the pups goodnight from Me.


This area is challenging, because in many ways we all present both more and less than we have to offer. The reasons are numerous: miscommunication, unreasonable expectations matched with unreasonable claims, too high or too low valuation on specific traits, the whole negotiation process is rife with this. Further, as soon as everyone agrees on a standard, some are compelled by circumstance or perversity to find ways to subvert that standard.

This exists in nature, too, but it's too big a discussion to do justice to. Still, IMO the best approach is to avoid harsh judgement and look at the bigger picture. That is... it's the best approach until it becomes the standard approach, and gets subverted...


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 10:23:40 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Fuck yeah it can! I could use that money to move to Alaska!

I'll expect you to keep your word..Don't be disingenuous!


All right, I will accept your giving me a million dollars and your buying me a new Corvette.  I'm not sure how much that will leave you to move to Alaska on.   Somehow I get the feeling that I'll be waiting a long time for you to ante up, however.  And I still don't think that you can reasonably define what I am proposing to do here as a service to you. 


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 12:13:38 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		This thread raises an interesting question and leads to a new perspective.

By service I usually mean acts of labor done to bring comfort or convenience to a dominant.

Let us imagine a submissive who does not wish to experience a given activity but does so only because the dominant wishes to engage in it. I would also describe enduring discomfort, whether physical or mental, because the dominant wishes to give it to be a form of service. However, I put this type of service in a different category than the prior kind. For sake of this discussion, I will call the first type labor-centric service and the second type endurance-centric service. I think a desire for each can co-exist in a given person.

What if the submissive is a service-oriented submissive and enjoys acts of labor to bring comfort or convenience to a dominant. I think his labor-centric service is still service. However, it is now of interest to both people versus just the dominant.

What then if the submissive enjoys experiencing the type of discomfort dominant wishes to give? Prior to this conversation I would not have described participation in an SM activity that one enjoys as a form of service and I am now revisiting that stance. If simply enjoying the service in labor-centric service does not negate the service then the same should apply to endurance-centric service. His service is still endurance-centric service if the dominant wishes to engage in the activity but is now of interest to each party. While this point is harder to accept and I am still trying to wrap my head around it, I am not immediately seeing a reason why endurance-centric service should be treated differently with respect to this matter than labor-centric service.

What makes it harder to accept this point that if the submissive wishes for the discomfort then is it really service? Again, I do not see a logical reason to treat it differently than labor-centric service. Yes, it makes him happy to endure (just as it makes a labor-centric service-oriented submissive happy to provide labor) but it takes effort to endure even if he likes it (just as it takes efforts to provide labor even if a labor-centric service submissive enjoys providing it).

What if a labor-centric service submissive provides service to someone (let's say a submissive woman) who does not particularly wish for service but plays along. This matter becomes fuzzy. He is still expending effort and I am hesitant to completely dismiss his service because it does bring some comfort or convenience to the recipient. However, I am also hesitant to recognize it as service. How I would feel about it would depend on the circumstance--how much comfort or convenience it brings, and whether the recipient simply does not wish for it or does she, in fact, become uncomfortable by it? In the latter case, how I would feel would depend on what is the reason for her discomfort and how much it is. If it is slight, transitory discomfort for being waited upon subserviently due to societal conditioning (something I sometimes even see in dommes initially) but the service is otherwise bringing comfort or convenience, I would still call it service. If she is being creeped out because of the sexual charge or vibe she is receiving, I would not call it service.

Let's take the same idea to endurance-centric service. Here, however, I would not describe the matter to be service if the submissive enjoys enduring the discomfort but the dominant does not wish to give it. I would still call it endurance and say there is some effort required by the submissive. However, I do not call it service because there is no benefit to the dominant. And I would call it service given by the dominant.

Thus, my metric for what is service depends on whether the act brings comfort, convenience or joy to the recipient.

Cheers,

Sea




(in reply to ReginaMirus)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 12:22:50 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		One point I often raise when discussing topping from the bottom or a submissive suggesting an activity is that just because an activity is suggested by the submissive does not remove it's D/s or SM value. A submissive might wish or suggest the activity simply for that reason--that it represents D/s or SM. I sometimes see a different sentiment in others: if a submissive likes it or suggests it, it does not count. I see it differently because this sentiment could be extended to submission, which would then make consensual submission problematic.

When I speak about service, I often say that there exist a variety of reasons and motivations behind why a given dominant might wish to receive service and why a given submissive might wish to provide service. Thus, indicating an interest in service alone is not sufficient to determine compatibility. I think it is important to dig deeper to uncover the definition and motivation for service held by each to gauge compatibility.

I do not doubt that there are men who indicate an interest in service with underhanded intentions. However, I wonder if semantics matter and what would happen if in such a case each person was asked to describe their definition of and reasons to engage in service. I wonder if some of the scenarios that are described as misrepresentation would then reduce to miscommunication.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:00:01 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Labor-service and endurance-service, makes sense.

I'm trying to think of situations outside those two, and coming up empty. For ex., let's say that a dominant just wants to play with their sub's hair. Even though it's pleasurable for both, it could be classed as 'endurance-service.'

I think you have something.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to undergroundsea)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:01:15 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		It could also be put in terms of 'act for' and acted upon'. Some services are acts by the sub; some are acts unto.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)
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RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:14:26 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		To speak in general, I am not able to independently relate to why one might use costs incurred as a justification to ask for money from a potential partner.

I went to school to learn massage therapy and spent whatever tuition and two semesters of evening classes to learn these skills. I have a massage table and supplies. I learned these skills for the sake of learning them and do not ask dommes to pay me to massage them because it is an activity I enjoy.

Similarly, I am not into physical play so much but I have acquired various types of toys so that they are available if needed. And I have a house in which I have not rented out any rooms so I can have privacy and space at any given time. However, it has never occurred to me to ask dommes to pay me because of costs of acquiring these items or maintaining this space. It would feel odd to me to ask of any such thing.

Yet I sometimes hear this type of justification for why a domme asks a sub for some form of payment. I am curious how a domme would feel if a sub who had sought to learn these skills and enjoyed giving massage asked them to pay them, share costs, or rent a place so that he could give the massage. If there are any dommes who would find that scenario odd, I would welcome hearing your reasons. I am wondering how much is it a cost issue, and how much is it a cultural issue based on what might be expected on basis of D/s roles and gender.

The comments above I speak generally based on a collective observation across threads of past. With respect to this thread, when it is to rent space, that is a different matter and a discussion to share costs is reasonable. I do not know enough about that specific situation to comment on it further one way or another.

I will simply add as a general statement that it would serve a domme's purpose to be aware that because of the extent to which submissive men encounter profiles that seem to be interested in money in one form or another, it is possible for a submissive to be cautious or sensitive about it. Just as it benefits a submissive who is seeking a relationship to separate himself or take care with how he addresses issues that come near sexual objectification, it benefits a domme who is seeking a relationship to separate herself similarly from those with their eye on money.

Another point I will add is that when interviewing dommes about why they like to receive service to get a broad sampling of responses for a seminar, I came across one interesting response. One domme said that some women are protective against being sexually used and so when a man gets sexual gratification, something else in return helps the woman not feel used. While I can understand the words, I cannot fully fathom the sentiment, likely because I do not deal with the issue of being sexually used and have no such sensitivity. If a woman and a man have a sexual encounter based on mutual interest and it is fun for each, I would welcome hearing comments about what concerns there still might be about being sexually used. Is a sexual encounter by default considered more advantageous to the man?

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 4:16:29 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
It could also be put in terms of 'act for' and acted upon'. Some services are acts by the sub; some are acts unto.


Thanks for your comments. Where would you put sitting through a sappy film? ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What exactly is "service"? - 12/18/2010 7:41:47 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		I... hm. It's both. Endurance and service. Dammit ::wipes the sand mandala clear:: time to start over...

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 80
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