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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The Mexican Military is a weeeee bit corrupt. I wonder how many of those guns that were traced back to the US actually originated with the Mexican military?

Quite a lot, Id say.

there's also the question of howmany criminal drug dealers are also former Mexican military

I'd be willing to bet good money that some of them aren't former military.

Some of the middle level crime bosses are probably ACTIVE military.

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ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown

still one of the safest, even when you compare it to cities like Minneapolis

Open border, where'd you get that nonsense, I'm just pointing out that it's one big F*$#'n border to patrol and we have alota bigger problems?

It's not hard for High income county to cut taxes.
it's no real big deal when crime drops in that kinda county either
try this with one of the poorer counties(like san bernardino)and you'll see what a logistical nightmare this kinda thing is.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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A little-known rule, introduced by Labour in 2003, allows illegal immigrants to claim "indefinite leave to remain" if they manage to live in Britain's black economy for long enough or are failed asylum seekers who manage to avoid deportation.

After 14 years they can apply to the Home Office which considers factors such as "compassionate circumstances, strength of connection to the UK and previous criminal record", before deciding whether an illegal immigrant will be allowed to stay.

.......

"Rewarding illegal behaviour is always bad, and there ought to be a lot more effort put into stopping people getting to this 14 year level.

"One of the reasons why we want to set up a specialist border police force is to prevent people being able to stay here for many years entirely below the radar."

Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migrationwatch, said: "It is wrong in principle that people who have been undercutting British workers for many years and often paying no tax should be granted full access to our welfare state.

"This is a reward for crime, provided you get away with it for long enough."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/7279436/Thousands-of-illegal-immigrants-win-right-to-stay-in-Britain-under-squatters-rights.html

Sound familiar, hertz? I suggest you worry more about your own back door in matters related to illegal immigrants.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

1 - What does your comment have to do with the question?   Should I repeat?

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2 - Cloned AK's come from China  And they are sporterized versions not fully auto.   I have seen some come from other countries but they are rare.   To import a fully automatic weapon into this country for personal use requires a ton of paperwork.   So those few that are here, other than those in the hands of licensed individuals, come into our country illegally.

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3 - I only meant to imply that they are cheap in other countries and in the fully auto capability   or do you understand the difference between semi- and full- automatic weapons?

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SHOW US YOUR SOURCE    IF IT IS AN OPINION THEN STATE SO

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Based on this http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-st-louis/why-the-silence-on-what-percentage-of-mexican-crime-guns-are-traced , 75,000 guns were seized in Mexico and 80% of the guns that were traced came from the US.

This would lead a person to believe that 60,000 of those guns came from the US.

Not so. If you read VERRRRRY closely, you will see that only about 25% of the guns were tracable.

So, if 80% of the guns that were traced came from the US and 25% were tracable that means that

20% of the guns seized in mexico were from the US.

Now, the rest is supposition by yours truly.

The US Government sells guns to the Mexican military

The Mexican Military is a weeeee bit corrupt. I wonder how many of those guns that were traced back to the US actually originated with the Mexican military?

Quite a lot, Id say.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"Cloned versions of the AK47 are produced in the US."

I never heard of this, and not too long ago I truly would have known, period. I think you're just making it up as you go along.
Source, please.

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You also have no idea about automatic weapons in the US. The full auto guns in Mexico are from elsewhere.

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" I do not believe the US government has a record of every weapon imported into or manufactured in the US."
Wrong. Again.

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...In trying to track guns confiscated in Mexico last year, agents found that one in five of the guns could not be traced because the dealers had no record of the sale or had gone out of business and the records had been lost.

...Individuals may sell guns at gun shows or even through classified advertisements without running a criminal background check or even recording the buyer’s name.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15guns.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

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ORIGINAL: hertz

I don't think so. There may be many reasons why a weapon is 'untraceable'. I have just spent a few minutes looking for information about this, but I am so far coming up blank.

One possible reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is that it has had its serial number filed off. Clearly, a gun with its serial filed off could come from the US as easily as anywhere else.

Another reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is because it has been counted, but the serial number not taken. It could appear in the figures as an illegal weapon, but untraceable by virtue of it never being properly catalogued prior to destruction (or whatever happens to illegal guns in Mexico). Potentially, a gun might be recirculated after being seized - we have already discussed the possibility that corruption could be widespread.

I am not convinced that the simple act of stamping a serial number on a gun is a foolproof way of ensuring that its origin can be detected.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Hertz   The National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968 regulate and control fully automatic weapons.

From what I saw the remanufactures and the one manufacturer that makes some kind of AK Clone (the manufacturer actually made an AK100) don't deal with automatic weapons.

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Private ownership of fully automatic AK-pattern rifles was regulated by the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934. The Gun Control Act of 1968 ceased the import of foreign-manufactured fully automatic firearms for civilian sales and possession. In 1986, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act stopped all future domestic manufacturing of fully automatic weapons for civilian use (non-military/non-LEO). Fully automatic weapons are still manufactured in the US for military and law enforcement use. However, automatic firearms manufactured domestically prior to 1986 or imported prior to 1968 may be transferred between civilians in accordance with federal, state and local law. A number of Soviet and PRC rifles were brought into the U.S. during the mid-1960s, when returning Vietnam veterans brought them home after capture from enemy troops. Some of these were properly registered during the amnesty period under the 1968 NFA law.

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And why are you asking  for evidence of an opionion?   That totally ruins any other argument you might have.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: hertz

I don't think so. There may be many reasons why a weapon is 'untraceable'. I have just spent a few minutes looking for information about this, but I am so far coming up blank.

One possible reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is that it has had its serial number filed off. Clearly, a gun with its serial filed off could come from the US as easily as anywhere else.

Another reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is because it has been counted, but the serial number not taken. It could appear in the figures as an illegal weapon, but untraceable by virtue of it never being properly catalogued prior to destruction (or whatever happens to illegal guns in Mexico). Potentially, a gun might be recirculated after being seized - we have already discussed the possibility that corruption could be widespread.

I am not convinced that the simple act of stamping a serial number on a gun is a foolproof way of ensuring that its origin can be detected.

Hertz, filing serial numbers is something you see in old cop movies. Not saying it isnt done, but foreign cartels dont do it. they have no need to.

I'm sorry that you have no understanding of US firearms law but it is a FACT that every gun made in the US can be traced to the manufacturer. It doesn't matter if the paper trail is broken, The manufacturer and date of manufacture can be determined. You might not know who all the intermediate owners were but, for the purpose of this thread, that isn't as important as where it came from and where it ended up.
Companies that dont maintain these records and make them available to the ATF are put out of business and I dont recall any manufacturer running afoul of this law.

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You still haven't addressed the issue of the number of guns (american made) that ended up in the hands of the cartels via the Mexican military.

Are we to blame for those?

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Sylvia Longmire is a former Air Force officer and Special Agent with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, where she specialized in counterintelligence, counterespionage, and force protection analysis. After being medically retired in 2005, Ms. Longmire worked for almost four years as a Senior Intelligence Analyst for the California State Terrorism Threat Assessment Center, providing daily situational awareness to senior state government officials on southwest border violence and significant events in Latin America. She received her Master’s degree from the University of South Florida in Latin American and Caribbean Studies, with a focus on the Cuban and Guatemalan revolutions. Ms. Longmire is currently an independent consultant and freelance writer.  Her website is Mexico's Drug War; she is a regular contributor to Examiner.com; and her email address is [email protected].

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Man, some of them are some "fugly" mofos! I call them "pumpkin heads."
The Mexicans and Central Americans aren't a real good looking group of people.
They look like they came right out of the stone age minus the hair. Some of them are pretty scary looking.