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RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 9:49:52 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

http://awkwardfamilyphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/2009/12/get-attachment.aspx.jpeg/570_0_resize.jpeg



The parrot absolutely MAKES that picture.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 1:58:20 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Or, You can go to the 3rd world and bulk buy them fully auto, complete weapon for $100 a pop and not worry about US customs.


You could do that, but if you did, you'd have to buy a considerable number to cover the transportation costs, and you'd have to find a way of getting them into Mexico without getting caught out, and, if you did get caught, you'd lose a shed-load of guns at some expense.

On the other hand, you could give someone a couple of hundred dollars to buy a legal weapon in the states and get someone to bring it to you in the boot of their car. Transportation costs are minimal, chances of getting caught almost non-existent, and the potential loss if your mule gets caught is the price of three or four guns.

According to this report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31474297/ns/world_news-americas/

and this one:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/14/american-guns-used-in-killings/

80% of illegal guns found in Jamaica originate from the US. In the case of Jamaica, almost all the guns seized are put through the e-trace system, which makes the 80% figure pretty solid.

Now, if it is worth illegally smuggling guns from the US to Jamaica, then it's a no-brainer going from the US to Mexico. And if 80% in Jamaica is a solid figure, then why should the figure for Mexico be much lower?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:17:43 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Or, You can go to the 3rd world and bulk buy them fully auto, complete weapon for $100 a pop and not worry about US customs.


You could do that, but if you did, you'd have to buy a considerable number to cover the transportation costs, and you'd have to find a way of getting them into Mexico without getting caught out, and, if you did get caught, you'd lose a shed-load of guns at some expense.

On the other hand, you could give someone a couple of hundred dollars to buy a legal weapon in the states and get someone to bring it to you in the boot of their car. Transportation costs are minimal, chances of getting caught almost non-existent, and the potential loss if your mule gets caught is the price of three or four guns.

According to this report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31474297/ns/world_news-americas/

and this one:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/14/american-guns-used-in-killings/

80% of illegal guns found in Jamaica originate from the US. In the case of Jamaica, almost all the guns seized are put through the e-trace system, which makes the 80% figure pretty solid.

Now, if it is worth illegally smuggling guns from the US to Jamaica, then it's a no-brainer going from the US to Mexico. And if 80% in Jamaica is a solid figure, then why should the figure for Mexico be much lower?


So, now you are equating the situation in jamaica and Mexico to bolster your situation.

In Jamaica, most of the fguns are handguns, not assault rifles (not that I'd expect you to know the difference).

As for paying someone a coupla hundred to bring over a couple of american made AK's (by the way, did I tell you that american made AK's arent fully auto?) in the 'boot' of their car.

Have you ever crossed the USA/Mex border lately? I have. An AK, or 7, in the boot WILL get noticed.

A Mule will NOT cross the border for a coupla hundred. Multiply that by 10 and they'll negotiate. by 50 and they'll get tempted.

Still easier to go to Central America (Mexico shares a border there too) and buy em for $100 a pop and bribe the guards.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:22:36 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		For legal purposes, the lower receiver- the part the ATF admitted was of unknown origin/manufacter- usually is the weapon. Barrels aren't weapons. Trigger assemblies aren't weapons. Usually the (lower) receiver is the only part with a serial number. 

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:30:47 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Common sense is not recognized by one of the participants in this discussion.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:33:04 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam



So, now you are equating the situation in jamaica and Mexico to bolster your situation.


Yes, I am. Is this a problem?

quote:

In Jamaica, most of the fguns are handguns, not assault rifles (not that I'd expect you to know the difference).


I'm not sure what an fgun is. But I understand the difference between a handgun and an assault rifle. Presumably you have some evidence to back this claim? Or is it just opinion? And what difference does it make to the argument that the US appears to be where almost all the illegal guns in Mexico and Jamaica are coming from? I don't know if this includes fguns.

quote:

As for paying someone a coupla hundred to bring over a couple of american made AK's (by the way, did I tell you that american made AK's arent fully auto?) in the 'boot' of their car.


Did I tell you that I saw a simple guide for making an AK47 fully automatic? Of course I did.

quote:

Have you ever crossed the USA/Mex border lately? I have. An AK, or 7, in the boot WILL get noticed.


Apparently not.

quote:

A Mule will NOT cross the border for a coupla hundred. Multiply that by 10 and they'll negotiate. by 50 and they'll get tempted.


I said this:

quote:

...you could give someone a couple of hundred dollars to buy a legal weapon in the states and get someone to bring it to you in the boot of their car.


I said that because what I have read suggests to me that a couple of hundred dollars is enough to encourage someone to buy a gun for you. I don't know what it costs to get someone to smuggle it. But it can't be a great deal, because it seems to be happening a lot.

quote:

Still easier to go to Central America (Mexico shares a border there too) and buy em for $100 a pop and bribe the guards.


Maybe we should tell the Jamaicans, because those dumb sons of bitches are apparently making exactly the same elementary mistake as the Mexican cartels. I just read that the criminals in the Bahamas are also completely missing the opportunity to bypass the US and get bargain guns from elsewhere. Gangsters are sooooo dumb!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:37:27 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Common sense is not recognized by one of the participants in this discussion.


That would be you, I guess - you seem to be the one who is not saying anything of any relevance to the discussion.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 2:42:34 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		http://www.tracetheguns.org/#/states/TX/exports/

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 7:49:26 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		So. hertz, you are saying that the prob in jamaica and Mexco is the same problem . Are you a Dubya supporter? That is exactly the same bullshit argument he used for Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for giving someone a coupla hundred to smuggle some guns, How many times have you crossed the USA/Mexico border?

I have and it's a pain in the ass now.

Have you EVER been here? If a person has NEVER been here, how can he be such an expert?

Your last link from an anti gun lobby has nothing to do with Mexico.


Another one, that simple guide to making an AK fully auto. well, it doesnt work on the American made ones. Wrong reciever.

As for the fgun that you keep harping on..well exfuckingSCUUUUUUUUUUuUUUSE ME. I made a typo.
I tried to be civil with you. Maybe you'd rather I wasnt?

Have you ever done that? I guarantee you will find out if you have. Trust me little one.

I guess as you cant deflect My arguments, you have to keep tossing in red herrings like Jamaica, Bahamas and a typo.

Point is still. Fully automatic guns are cheaper and easier to get about anyplace BUT the US and Canada in this hemisphere.
Why go to the place where they are the hardest to get and the most expensive and import them to a place where they are cheap.



(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 8:01:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

One possible reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is that it has had its serial number filed off.


ROFL, do you really think that a Mex drug cartel gives a fuck if a weapon is traced? They dont bother filing anything off, and if the authorities wanted to go through the effort, filed off serial numbers can still be recovered.

Lets just say that claims that a MAJORITY of illegal weapons in Mexico come from the US is totally unsupported.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/19/2010 8:03:05 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		He wont buy it wilbur. If you start to prove him wrong, he drags Jamaica and typos into it.

He has his hard-core liberal anti gun websites and he's stickin to em.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 6:36:50 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		~ FR ~

Although this article is from 2007, the major factors remain substantially the same:

Mexico: Dynamics of the Gun Trade

The so-called "War on Drugs" is just Prohibition writ large, with entirely predictable results. Apparently our government thinks it is better to hemorrhage cash from the Treasury and the economy rather than risk the awful chance that somebody somewhere might be getting high and listening to Mozart.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/20/2010 6:48:12 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 1:01:42 PM   
hertz


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Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

So. hertz, you are saying that the prob in jamaica and Mexco is the same problem . Are you a Dubya supporter? That is exactly the same bullshit argument he used for Iraq and Afghanistan.


What I am saying is that 80% of the illegal guns found in Jamaica originate from the US. I am saying that this is a pretty solid statistic. I am saying that if Jamaican criminals find US guns attractive, then Mexican criminals might also find them attractive. I am saying that if 80% of the illegal guns found in Jamaica are sourced in the US, then a similar figure is reasonable for Mexico. I am saying that there is no evidence for a lesser figure. I am saying your attempts to exonerate US gun culture from blame is a fail. I am saying if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, chances are, it is a Duck.

quote:

As for giving someone a coupla hundred to smuggle some guns, How many times have you crossed the USA/Mexico border?


Never. But I am very capable of reading reports from people who have done.

quote:



I have and it's a pain in the ass now.

Maybe you look a bit Hispanic?

quote:

Have you EVER been here? If a person has NEVER been here, how can he be such an expert?


I don't need to be an expert. All I need to be able to do is read reports written by experts.

quote:

Your last link from an anti gun lobby has nothing to do with Mexico.


It has everything to do with Mexico.


quote:

Another one, that simple guide to making an AK fully auto. well, it doesnt work on the American made ones. Wrong reciever.


It works on the foreign ones sold in America. That's good enough for me.

quote:

As for the fgun that you keep harping on..well exfuckingSCUUUUUUUUUUuUUUSE ME. I made a typo.
I tried to be civil with you. Maybe you'd rather I wasnt?


You suggested I didn't know the difference between a handgun and an assault rifle. I responded in the same spirit. Keep a civil tongue in your head and you will find I can respond quite civilly in return.

quote:

I guess as you cant deflect My arguments, you have to keep tossing in red herrings like Jamaica, Bahamas and a typo


I believe your arguments have been dismantled.

quote:

Point is still. Fully automatic guns are cheaper and easier to get about anyplace BUT the US and Canada in this hemisphere.
Why go to the place where they are the hardest to get and the most expensive and import them to a place where they are cheap.


Tell it to the criminals in Jamaica, Mexico and The Bahamas. They all know a thing or two about guns, and they apparently disagree with you up to 80% of the time.





(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 1:12:40 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

One possible reason a gun might be 'untraceable' is that it has had its serial number filed off.


ROFL, do you really think that a Mex drug cartel gives a fuck if a weapon is traced? They dont bother filing anything off, and if the authorities wanted to go through the effort, filed off serial numbers can still be recovered.


Apparently not. Information gleaned from articles I have read suggests that this can and does happen. I have posted links throughout this thread. But I agree, it is not a major factor in the 'untraceability' of US-origin weapons.

quote:

Lets just say that claims that a MAJORITY of illegal weapons in Mexico come from the US is totally unsupported.


There is much strong circumstantial evidence which supports the claim, but you are welcome to say what you like. There is no evidence at all that the majority of illegal weapons found in Mexico do not come from the US.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 1:15:49 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

Although this article is from 2007, the major factors remain substantially the same:

Mexico: Dynamics of the Gun Trade

The so-called "War on Drugs" is just Prohibition writ large, with entirely predictable results. Apparently our government thinks it is better to hemorrhage cash from the Treasury and the economy rather than risk the awful chance that somebody somewhere might be getting high and listening to Mozart.

K.


It's a good article, and I believe it reflects the reality quite well. I need some convincing around the issue of Prohibition. Some drugs,in my opinion, are so dangerous that Prohibition is the only sensible option. Crack Cocaine, for example. But that's another debate, I guess...

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 5:28:29 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Some drugs,in my opinion, are so dangerous that Prohibition is the only sensible option.

Really? How do you feel about alcohol, tobacco, fast cars, fast women, and guns?

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/20/2010 5:51:01 PM >

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/20/2010 9:22:24 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Hertz, as far as Me looking Hispanic, when is the last time you saw an Hispanic that had aryan looks, blue eyes and a German surname. I will say, though that is the first time I have seen a hard core liberal make a blatantly racist comment.

Im soooooo glad that you are an expert on a border that you have not only never crossed but live 3000 miles away from.

You seem to be backing off. First you say that the majority of weapons in mexico come from the US and not you say there isnt evicence that a majority do not come from the US. How much farther you gonna back off little one?

As for your comment about Me keeping a civil tongue in My head. Well, guess what little one, you are the one that jumped My shit over a typo. I havent even taken the gloves off. Want Me to?

Again, you equate Jamaica and Mexico. I never thought I'd see a liberal take a page out of Dubya's playbook and try to equate different countries with different problems just because they are in the same hemisphere.

Face it, you know NOTHING about this hemisphere. You have never even been here. You are probably afraid to travel here even if you could get out of your mum's basement.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/21/2010 12:46:38 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Please, dont lump him in with the liberals. Its embarrassing.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/21/2010 1:43:46 AM   
hertz


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Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Hertz, as far as Me looking Hispanic, when is the last time you saw an Hispanic that had aryan looks, blue eyes and a German surname. I will say, though that is the first time I have seen a hard core liberal make a blatantly racist comment.


Now who's dragging the bottom of the barrel? I was accusing US border security of racism.

quote:

Im soooooo glad that you are an expert on a border that you have not only never crossed but live 3000 miles away from.


You didn't read the bit where I said that I am relying on the testimony of experts?

quote:

You seem to be backing off. First you say that the majority of weapons in mexico come from the US and not you say there isnt evicence that a majority do not come from the US. How much farther you gonna back off little one?


I'm not backing off at all. maybe you should re-read the thread if you are getting confused?

quote:

As for your comment about Me keeping a civil tongue in My head. Well, guess what little one, you are the one that jumped My shit over a typo. I havent even taken the gloves off. Want Me to?


Whatever.

quote:

Again, you equate Jamaica and Mexico. I never thought I'd see a liberal take a page out of Dubya's playbook and try to equate different countries with different problems just because they are in the same hemisphere.


Jamaica and Mexico are similar in one respect. Up to 80% of the illegally held guns in each country originate from the US.

quote:

Face it, you know NOTHING about this hemisphere. You have never even been here. You are probably afraid to travel here even if you could get out of your mum's basement.


I think you have lost this.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Want to lower crime and cut taxes? - 12/21/2010 1:44:59 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Please, dont lump him in with the liberals. Its embarrassing.


If you have a problem, Tazzy, come right out and say it. Don't be shy, now...

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 100
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