RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:30:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Again, that cuts both ways.

Spell that out for me, please. I'm all ears.

K.




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:39:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Consider too that the Brits are inherently obedient to the Crown.


You seem more fixated with the Crown than any of the Brits on here.

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:44:37 PM)

I'm not going to claim either side as I have never been on the other side of the pond (unlike MANY posters here)




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:47:23 PM)

Thats right. 


Hill comes from some other planet.

He does-!   He DOES!

;-0




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:56:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


But the problem is (or rather was) that, having relatively recently (from their point of view) emerged from a colonial war, they saw good reasons to enshrine the “right” of an individual to bear arms; in and of its time this wasn’t an especially bad thing, but unfortunately it’s one of the few areas of the Constitution that suffers through historical context; in a modern society there is simply no reason whatsoever why a person needs, or indeed should be allowed, to carry a firearm for personal “protection”. None. Now of course you've ended up in a situation, courtesy of that Constitutional “right”, where the argument for the private ownership of firearms becomes a product of, and is enabled by, the fact that there are now so many of them in the “wrong” hands that citizens feel insecure enough to want and need to carry them in return, but that’s a fallacy of incorrect logic – one needs to start with the premise that people should not be permitted guns in a modern age and work back from that.


And there's the problem - you're starting from a flawed premise, borne of your own personal bias. Your premise is not a fact, but an opinion. No matter which direction you work from that flawed premise, it will inevitably lead to a flawed conclusion.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
However, the fact that I don't think America is going to wake up to the problem doesn't mean that I can’t see what the problem is; all the other policies and methods for containment and improvement start with the erroneous assertion that it’s ok for private citizens to own and carry firearms, and therefore, being based on an incorrect logic, they (the policies and “solutions”) are doomed to failure.


You're missing a very important point - America is wide awake, and sees the problem quite clearly. What you are overlooking is that Americans have made the choice that they don't think the problem is sufficient to warrant rewriting the Constitution. The fact that you disagree does not make our position erroneous or illogical; we just see the matter differently. As a group, we do not share your apparent blind faith in the benevolence of government, and we prefer to retain our inherent right to defend ourselves against it.




Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 1:21:13 AM)

So you have the second amendment that recognises the citizens right to own a firearm just in case that time comes that they have to deal with the government as an agressor, I wonders, how tooled up are you, can the American citizen actually field enough weapons to become a threat to government and government operatives who I might add might be highly trained and equipped with the latest weaponry, would it be a case of pop guns and blunderbuses against state of the art weaponry that the American citizen actually bought the government ? I believe weaponry has come on a long way since the flintlocks that everyone had to use back in the days of America's foundation.

Or is it a scam a false sense of security, you are docile because you are allowed to keep your pea shooter thinking you can man up to authority when it is needed ? But allowing a citizen to be armed with deadly weaponry to protect themselves against aggressors other than the government is basically saying those that police the law are ineffective, your law cannot uphold what it is charged with providing as I believe the role of government through it's various mechanisms is to protect the public, no point seeking aggressors overseas if it cannot first deal with those at home.




PeonForHer -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 3:31:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Again, that cuts both ways.

Spell that out for me, please. I'm all ears.

K.



I thought this was clear - that there are manipulative liars amongst both those who want to preserve the status quo, and those who want to press for some utopian vision.  Though, actually, most of those who've pushed for the latter, in recent history, haven't bought into the idea of individualism.  They've valorised the group, instead.  They have, however, largely wanted the ordinary people to believe that the new Utopia is their, the people's idea, rather than that of themselves, the rulers.  But I thought you knew all this? 




PeonForHer -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 3:45:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
And there's the problem - you're starting from a flawed premise, borne of your own personal bias. Your premise is not a fact, but an opinion. No matter which direction you work from that flawed premise, it will inevitably lead to a flawed conclusion.


He started from an ethical position, Panda.  Contained in it is the further ethical belief that guns are generally undesirable things - or, at least, things that aren't always desirable.

On the other hand, whenever we talk of the 'right to' X or Y,  we make the assumption that whatever we have the 'right to' must be a desirable thing.  It's been used as a (very powerful) rhetorical trick for time immemorial. 




Aynne88 -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 4:04:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Yes, sadly tourists are victims of the scum in our country, but that because of the fact that they are likely to be clueless and carrying expensive items as well as cash and the means to get it, the same here as tourists anywhere in the world, but here, the plod act when a tourist is attacked, as tourist protection is a number one priority due to the fact that tourists we depend on and need not frighten away. But the plod can't be everywhere all of the time, as the citizens of the country know full well so crime sadly is a fact of life, the trick here as anywhere in the world, is not make yourself attractive to the scum in society, have responsibility for your own actions.

I was in Amsterdam a good few years ago, sitting outside a "coffee" shop one mid-morning and relaxing in the spring sunshine. In Amsterdam, most of these “coffee” shops were in or near the red light area, giving it what used to be a pleasantly bohemian atmosphere, although it was also clearly the sort of area where you wouldn’t parade your wealth. I used to just wear my black leather biking jacket and jeans, not shave for a day or two, and people left me pretty much alone.

The bar chap returned with my coffee just as a bloke walked past. Now I try not to stereotype, but this bloke could have been lifted from the pages of "Stereotypical American Tourist Monthly"; dreadful plaid trousers, fat as butter, booming voice, small, shrill wife ... and four (count em, four!) cameras round his neck, and all of them Canon. I'm a pretty keen photographer, so I recognised not one, but two Canon A1 bodies, one with a stock 50mm and one with a medium tele lens fitted, an AE-1 with what looked like a wide angle, and something else Canon flavoured I couldn’t quite see well enough to tell what it was ... bear in mind that, at the time, the A1 was about as pricey as amateur photography got, and the AE-1 wasn’t exactly cheap either. He had a gold Rolex on, and she was absolutely dripping with gold jewellery too.

They waddled past the “coffee” shop, nodding politely to the bartender and myself as we gazed in amazement, we waved in return, and they toddled on their merry way.

The barman looked at me, I looked at the barman, we both laughed, and he said “I bet any money you like they won’t have a good day”. I didn't take that bet.




RF, travelled to the US much? We do the same thing where I live. It's quite a snotty posh WASPY area here, lots of sailboats, old money, blue blood veins that run back to the Mayflower and 8,000 plus s.f. summer homes, whose owners have surnames like Stewart ( as in Martha) the DuPonts, Rockefellers, Kennedy's, etc. When the cheap, and slovenly attired "eurotrash" roll into town in the summer, the seer sucker brigade has to bite their tongue as well, while looking askance at their inappropriate attire and boorish behavior.

You really musn't get all of your ideas about American tourists from Chevy Chase movies, and my neighbors here on the coast might stop referring to those unfortunate misbehaving eurotrash, it really serves neither side does it?




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 6:37:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Yes, sadly tourists are victims of the scum in our country, but that because of the fact that they are likely to be clueless and carrying expensive items as well as cash and the means to get it, the same here as tourists anywhere in the world, but here, the plod act when a tourist is attacked, as tourist protection is a number one priority due to the fact that tourists we depend on and need not frighten away. But the plod can't be everywhere all of the time, as the citizens of the country know full well so crime sadly is a fact of life, the trick here as anywhere in the world, is not make yourself attractive to the scum in society, have responsibility for your own actions.

I was in Amsterdam a good few years ago, sitting outside a "coffee" shop one mid-morning and relaxing in the spring sunshine. In Amsterdam, most of these “coffee” shops were in or near the red light area, giving it what used to be a pleasantly bohemian atmosphere, although it was also clearly the sort of area where you wouldn’t parade your wealth. I used to just wear my black leather biking jacket and jeans, not shave for a day or two, and people left me pretty much alone.

The bar chap returned with my coffee just as a bloke walked past. Now I try not to stereotype, but this bloke could have been lifted from the pages of "Stereotypical American Tourist Monthly"; dreadful plaid trousers, fat as butter, booming voice, small, shrill wife ... and four (count em, four!) cameras round his neck, and all of them Canon. I'm a pretty keen photographer, so I recognised not one, but two Canon A1 bodies, one with a stock 50mm and one with a medium tele lens fitted, an AE-1 with what looked like a wide angle, and something else Canon flavoured I couldn’t quite see well enough to tell what it was ... bear in mind that, at the time, the A1 was about as pricey as amateur photography got, and the AE-1 wasn’t exactly cheap either. He had a gold Rolex on, and she was absolutely dripping with gold jewellery too.

They waddled past the “coffee” shop, nodding politely to the bartender and myself as we gazed in amazement, we waved in return, and they toddled on their merry way.

The barman looked at me, I looked at the barman, we both laughed, and he said “I bet any money you like they won’t have a good day”. I didn't take that bet.




RF, travelled to the US much? We do the same thing where I live. It's quite a snotty posh WASPY area here, lots of sailboats, old money, blue blood veins that run back to the Mayflower and 8,000 plus s.f. summer homes, whose owners have surnames like Stewart ( as in Martha) the DuPonts, Rockefellers, Kennedy's, etc. When the cheap, and slovenly attired "eurotrash" roll into town in the summer, the seer sucker brigade has to bite their tongue as well, while looking askance at their inappropriate attire and boorish behavior.

You really musn't get all of your ideas about American tourists from Chevy Chase movies, and my neighbors here on the coast might stop referring to those unfortunate misbehaving eurotrash, it really serves neither side does it?


Egads Aynne88, those uppidity type drive me nuts!  They think their shit dont stink and the best part of life is how manicured the lawn is.  I will take the red necks any day of the week. 

Parts of Chicago have that same type- and it sure kills a hard on.




Aynne88 -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 6:51:38 AM)



I am inclined to agree it just so happens that I was born here soo...my point was that  there are just as many snotty little hedge fund pricks and elitists and bourgie and yuppy monied types right here that mock the Europeans that flock to my little corner of the world from June til September ad by labor day we are quite fucking happy to see some of them go. Especially the ones that still haven't figured out American driving or our system of gratuities. The anti-americaism on some of these thread would be better tolderated if it were at least originak, I find it hard to believe every American tourist that the Briuts ecounter is overweight and has dreadful shoes amd 5 cameras any more than every Brit tourist we get has gnarly teeth, pasty complexions and a penchant for abysmal cuisine.  It is stuff such as that that only perpetuates one- upmanship and trust me, the Mayflower New Englanders are the champions of that game. They do it amongst  themselves so often they can defeat the foreign ones without trying. [;)].




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 7:07:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88



I am inclined to agree it just so happens that I was born here soo...my point was that  there are just as many snotty little hedge fund pricks and elitists and bourgie and yuppy monied types right here that mock the Europeans that flock to my little corner of the world from June til September ad by labor day we are quite fucking happy to see some of them go. Especially the ones that still haven't figured out American driving or our system of gratuities. The anti-americaism on some of these thread would be better tolderated if it were at least originak, I find it hard to believe every American tourist that the Briuts ecounter is overweight and has dreadful shoes amd 5 cameras any more than every Brit tourist we get has gnarly teeth, pasty complexions and a penchant for abysmal cuisine.  It is stuff such as that that only perpetuates one- upmanship and trust me, the Mayflower New Englanders are the champions of that game. They do it amongst  themselves so often they can defeat the foreign ones without trying. [;)].



Point taken.  

Consider tho that Europeans do not shower daily like we do.   They then pack on noxious cologne and smart (?) clothes....  





pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 7:21:50 AM)

Aynne. I still have Rap blocked... so I have not seen the whole thread.

(I am sorry if I sounded out of line)




Phoenixpower -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 7:34:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The Brit men are a docile and domesticated bunch.



FYP







Will you stop doing that !!!!
thats the second time since the new year you have made me laugh out loud.
it was funny, not true by any stretch of the imagination,  and being polite, I'm not gonna point out the obvious, but you caught my funny bone.


[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

[sm=popcorn.gif]




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:01:15 AM)

The Brits set their clocks to Big Ben.

Where as the Americans use satellite hook ups vis-a-vi computers and cell phones. 




RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:09:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
RF, travelled to the US much?

Dozens of times. Used to live there a while back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
We do the same thing where I live. It's quite a snotty posh WASPY area here, lots of sailboats, old money, blue blood veins that run back to the Mayflower and 8,000 plus s.f. summer homes, whose owners have surnames like Stewart ( as in Martha) the DuPonts, Rockefellers, Kennedy's, etc. When the cheap, and slovenly attired "eurotrash" roll into town in the summer, the seer sucker brigade has to bite their tongue as well, while looking askance at their inappropriate attire and boorish behavior.

You really musn't get all of your ideas about American tourists from Chevy Chase movies, and my neighbors here on the coast might stop referring to those unfortunate misbehaving eurotrash, it really serves neither side does it?

I didn't mean to imply that British tourists are any better. Christ Jesus no. I just find the fact that so many American tourists are exactly as per stereotype highly amusing. You actually couldn't get any closer sometimes if you set out to replicate the concept.

And I honestly don't mind, or indeed care, how your neighbours relate to "Eurotrash". I'm neither them (your neighbours), nor "Eurotrash", so it matters not a jot to me :) They're more than welcome to their opinions :)




RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:10:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Aynne. I still have Rap blocked


You, Headcase Boy, are a liar.




pahunkboy -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:14:30 AM)

They also lack basics like the good kind of toilet paper- like we have here in the US.   The white soft kind- double ply. 




mnottertail -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:15:50 AM)

quick question, old cheese, how do the geordies the scousers and other brits  from bathersden to tintagel and amesbury to caernarvon set their clocks when they cannot possibly espy or hear big ben so far flung from london town?




RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/4/2011 8:17:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
They also lack basics like the good kind of toilet paper- like we have here in the US.   The white soft kind- double ply. 

You don't even seem to possess enough brain cells to work out that it's not possible to reply to someone if you have them "ignored".

I'm fairly surprised you can even walk unaided ... I'm presuming you have a piece of card with "Left ... PTO" on one side and "RIGHT ... PTO" on the other :)




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