RE: Is CM really good for newcomers?

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RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep @ RapierFugue -- while i agree with you mostly, the word "whining" is bugging me. =p sometimes people label something "whining" when it isn't, because that is ALSO a derogatory term for an opinion they simply don't like, especially if it's an opinion about something they're doing or actively promoting. it's the attitude you see with the people who screech at someone for trying to get a mob to stop ganging up on someone -- calling them a "savior" or a "white knight" in a disparaging way because they're actively disagreeing with mob behavior. whining isn't a neutral word in our language anymore, and most things labeled "whines," really AREN'T whines the way people mean it today. =p there isn't anything wrong with pointing out something you don't like, raising attention to it, and attempting to change it. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then one has to at least consider the possibility that one is dealing with an aquatic avian of the family Anatidae. But your point is a fair one, and well made, even if I don't entirely agree with it.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:39:52 AM)
quote: As far as cliques..........bahhhhhhh. I've no patience or desire to figure that shit out. I am just going to be me......if some have a vision of that being cliqueish.....so be it. If some take offense.......so be it. I am so over trying to make everyone happy, comfortable, or feel welcome. I am not running a hospitality suite. I am not being paid to teach anyone anything or train anyone in anything. The reality is that...........I am here for ME. I am not here to do any 'community' a service. Much like in my physical life, I give exactly what I want, without any expectation of reciprocation and not because someone expects something of me. But just because it's what I want to do. Exactly LT. Just wanted to add that the clique attack is tossed around willy nilly without much basis in truth. Not saying we havent seen it. Im saying that its not as prevalent as some may wish to believe. Its become a catch all for those who would rather believe its someone else's fault.. and not their own.

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:41:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel I also think too many people are way to sensitive on this site nowadays, they are here more for validation of their opinions and who they are by anonymous nicknames and their friends than they are for discussion and debates of topics. When i first got here many years ago, it was a discussion and debate board, not a social board where friends decide to validate one another. I've noticed that the phenomenon you mentioned there is not confined to CM ... it's becoming more prevalent all over the net these days. Interesting post, cheers for that.

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:43:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc Again I can't disagree with you on the whole. quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Again, as with people shouting at you in the street, you can shout back, or simply ignore them. The choice is yours, and theirs. The only thing with this analagy though is that on the street... the moment can pass pretty quickly once you have ignored or walked away. On a forum like this, even if you 'walk' from the thread, it sticks with you and remains - like a photograph. It "remains" for as long as you continue to give a fuck about it. The solution to that issue would seem to be self-evident.

RCdc -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:44:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Then that individual is too sensitive to survive anywhere for long, and will always end up wailing into their cocoa. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how life is. Harsh? Meh. You are a sadist aintya?[;)] But seriously, I don't know about being too sensitive. I think of it more as that first hurdle. Everyone has to get over it at some point and I completely believe that everyone should be given the chance. I'm a cynic sure, but an optimistic one! I get that it is survival of the fittest, and in a zombie attack, I'm gonna make sure that all the people I am hanging with run slower than me, but that's not gonna stop me from giving someone a footup to a ledge.[:D]

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:46:40 AM)
@ RF -- but your determination of any of the walking, swimming, quacking, etc is totally subjective to you. =p you may think something is a whine and respond to it as such, when someone else sees it as a totally valid question or opinion. your "duck" might be my "goose." subjective observation is not as clear as scientific classification of characteristics, no matter how much we may like to believe it is. =p haha

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:51:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Then that individual is too sensitive to survive anywhere for long, and will always end up wailing into their cocoa. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how life is. Harsh? Meh. You are a sadist aintya?[;)] But seriously, I don't know about being too sensitive. I think of it more as that first hurdle. Everyone has to get over it at some point and I completely believe that everyone should be given the chance. I'm a cynic sure, but an optimistic one! I get that it is survival of the fittest, and in a zombie attack, I'm gonna make sure that all the people I am hanging with run slower than me, but that's not gonna stop me from giving someone a footup to a ledge.[:D] heh. The point being, we were all new once. In fact I've been "new" several times, due to me going away for long periods of time. If I can survive 3 introductions to CM then I'm pretty sure anyone can survive one. What I tend to see played out, time after time, on CM, is this: Option One: 1. Newbie posts something fairly innocuous to start with. 2. People say "Hi newbie, welcome to CM!" 3. Newbie contributes to a few threads, then either likes things and stays, or gets bored and fucks off. Option Two: 1. Newbie posts something inflammatory, incorrect or just downright fuckwitted. 2. People say "you're talking out of your ass/arse, Newbie, and here's why! <example>". 3. Newbie either takes it on board, says to themselves "yeah, maybe I don't know it all", and learns, then continues to post. 4. OR: Newbie pitches a pink one, and it's flounces all round, then they often fuck off. In the case of (4), above, am I really expected to give a fuck? Coz I'm not sure I'm able to, sorry.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:55:25 AM)
quote: Option Two: 1. Newbie posts something inflammatory, incorrect or just downright fuckwitted. 2. People say "you're talking out of your ass/arse, Newbie, and here's why! <example>". 3. Newbie either takes it on board, says to themselves "yeah, maybe I don't know it all", and learns, then continues to post. 4. OR: Newbie pitches a pink one, and it's flounces all round, then they often fuck off. In the case of (4), above, am I really expected to give a fuck? Coz I'm not sure I'm able to, sorry. Option 2 isnt limited to newbies.

Jaybeee -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:58:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee The most surprising aspect of CM for me (both at the outset and still to this day) was/is the amount of prudery from people claiming to be fetishists. Several wildly divergent episodes come to mind, but the most striking of all is also the most common theme, ie turning up to a BDSM site and spouting unslavelike commentary about how you'd never "cause a child to ask her mommy, "What that lady is doing kneeling by that man?" regardless of what said man has ordered, is pretty much the pinnacle of self-delusion. Everyone indulges in self-delusion; "you, me, them, everybody" ... it's a natural and human part of our psychological defence mechanisms. If you think you don't then you're indulging in the worst self-delusion of them all ;) Deludedness being widespread throughout humanity isn't a shock, obviously, as otherwise we wouldn't be human, as you yourself alluded to above; the spikes I see in certain people are. Call me an elitist bastard, but I take a certain comfort in people being wrong, and you'd think after a while the utility of that pleasure would diminish, but they keep forever restoking the hearth. I just enjoy the warmth.

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:58:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep @ RF -- but your determination of any of the walking, swimming, quacking, etc is totally subjective to you. All human interaction is subjective. You can't, indeed won't ever be able to, alter that. That's part of why not everyone in the world loves everyone else in the world. All a person can do is offer their opinion. Until the point where I get made God-Emperor Of The World* my opinion is no more valid or worthy than yours, or theirs, therefore the only thing that matters is how people react; if they choose to pitch a fit then that's their choice. I don't have to validate that choice for them, and neither do you. Unless, of course, you want to :) (and there's nothing wrong in you doing that either). What you can't do (if you want anything remotely resembling an interesting and lively forum) is start imposing rules of "nice" behaviour (subject to basic decency demands that the TOS should state) that pander to the most sensitive flower in the garden, because what you end up with is Teletubbies with lobotomies. *the letter informing me of this seems to have got lost in the post. I keep telling them, but they won't send another copy :(

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 6:59:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee Call me an elitist bastard Too late. Happened ages ago :)

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:01:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Option Two: 1. Newbie posts something inflammatory, incorrect or just downright fuckwitted. 2. People say "you're talking out of your ass/arse, Newbie, and here's why! <example>". 3. Newbie either takes it on board, says to themselves "yeah, maybe I don't know it all", and learns, then continues to post. 4. OR: Newbie pitches a pink one, and it's flounces all round, then they often fuck off. In the case of (4), above, am I really expected to give a fuck? Coz I'm not sure I'm able to, sorry. Option 2 isnt limited to newbies. True, although, if I were pedantic, I'd point out they wouldn't be referred to as "newbie" if they weren't ;) I've been called pedantic many times. Well, 27.5 times, to be precise.

RCdc -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:01:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: As far as cliques..........bahhhhhhh. I've no patience or desire to figure that shit out. I am just going to be me......if some have a vision of that being cliqueish.....so be it. If some take offense.......so be it. I am so over trying to make everyone happy, comfortable, or feel welcome. I am not running a hospitality suite. I am not being paid to teach anyone anything or train anyone in anything. The reality is that...........I am here for ME. I am not here to do any 'community' a service. Much like in my physical life, I give exactly what I want, without any expectation of reciprocation and not because someone expects something of me. But just because it's what I want to do. Exactly LT. Just wanted to add that the clique attack is tossed around willy nilly without much basis in truth. Not saying we havent seen it. Im saying that its not as prevalent as some may wish to believe. Its become a catch all for those who would rather believe its someone else's fault.. and not their own. Ok... chill with me here tazzy, coz I adore you (mainly because of your Politics and Religion threads)... but I'm gonna use you as an example of my subjectivness.... I know you think it, and (remember this is subjective) you are one of the veryfew (from my viewpoint) people on this board who I would define as being uncliquable(is that even a word?). And I totally get that people think of the word clique as a bad and yucky word... but the reality is that a clique is nothing more than friends or admirers. So thing is - I'm a clique... an undesired tazzygirlclique. Only I don't feel the need to post it in my profile or sig and the only reason I say it on here now is because without it, my example would be usless. Does that mean we agree all the time? Hell no. But then I am oozie and I know that. I like being positive (on the whole) and big people up even when they don't care (blinks @Mr RF[;)])... that's just who I am.

igor2003 -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep ^^^^^^ 100% agreement barelynangel ^^^^^^ 100% agreement LillyBoPeep

barelynangel -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:01:53 AM)
RapierFuge, I agree it is, however, we are speaking about CM specifically and if its good for newcomers. As i said, it doesn't have to be this way -- its just the majority of people are being this way. We used to have people here who saw discussion and yes debate as beneficial instead of simply seeking validation for their opinions. Debate and discussion do seem like a lost art all over. Now, i don't know when you came to the boards, but i remember the times even in the BDSM forums, i am new to them as most of my time used to be spent in the Gorean forum, when heated debates would happen in a thread and no matter how heated it got it wasn't trainwrecks you saw but it was like a tennis match and it was exciting to see what new information, ideas, concepts and such each side generated to make their point against the other. It was the topic they debated, not people. angel

RCdc -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue It "remains" for as long as you continue to give a fuck about it. The solution to that issue would seem to be self-evident. Ah, but then the daily mail would be outta a job[;)], just like all the posters who feel the 'need' to 'show and tell' everyone the emails they got or the previous crappy posts someone made.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:06:47 AM)
quote: Ok... chill with me here tazzy, coz I adore you (mainly because of your Politics and Religion threads)... but I'm gonna use you as an example of my subjectivness.... I know you think it, and (remember this is subjective) you are one of the veryfew (from my viewpoint) people on this board who I would define as being uncliquable(is that even a word?). And I totally get that people think of the word clique as a bad and yucky word... but the reality is that a clique is nothing more than friends or admirers. So thing is - I'm a clique... an undesired tazzygirlclique. Only I don't feel the need to post it in my profile or sig and the only reason I say it on here now is because without it, my example would be usless. Does that mean we agree all the time? Hell no. But then I am oozie and I know that. I like being positive (on the whole) and big people up even when they don't care (blinks ****Mr RF)... that's just who I am. Well, hell, i didnt know i was a clique! lol But i do understand exactly what you mean. There are people on these boards that i cant stand, not because of what they say, but because of how they say it. (one of those things i was taught as a child, i suppose). And, even among those that i do like and even admire, i am more than willing to have a disagreement with. And, to be honest, when im being a bitch and im called out on it... i dont mind. Because, i realize im being a bitch and should be called out on it. I would be very upset to realize some people supported me in an argument or debate simply because they liked me and not because what i stated was correct.

RapierFugue -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:07:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel RapierFuge, I agree it is, however, we are speaking about CM specifically and if its good for newcomers. As i said, it doesn't have to be this way -- its just the majority of people are being this way. We used to have people here who saw discussion and yes debate as beneficial instead of simply seeking validation for their opinions. Debate and discussion do seem like a lost art all over. Now, i don't know when you came to the boards, but i remember the times even in the BDSM forums, i am new to them as most of my time used to be spent in the Gorean forum, when heated debates would happen in a thread and no matter how heated it got it wasn't trainwrecks you saw but it was like a tennis match and it was exciting to see what new information, ideas, concepts and such each side generated to make their point against the other. It was the topic they debated, not people. angel For what it’s worth, I agree with you. Although I do confess to finding the train-wrecks amusing, from time to time. Is that wrong of me? Probably. I try to treat others as I would wish to be treated myself, and furthermore, to be both friendly and fair, but I can’t ignore the fact that some people seem determined to take offence at anything and everything – the “drama llama” effect is also more widespread these days.

RCdc -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:07:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Option Two: 1. Newbie posts something inflammatory, incorrect or just downright fuckwitted. 2. People say "you're talking out of your ass/arse, Newbie, and here's why! <example>". 3. Newbie either takes it on board, says to themselves "yeah, maybe I don't know it all", and learns, then continues to post. 4. OR: Newbie pitches a pink one, and it's flounces all round, then they often fuck off. In the case of (4), above, am I really expected to give a fuck? Coz I'm not sure I'm able to, sorry. Option 2 isnt limited to newbies. And *that* is where the imbalance is.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? (1/8/2011 7:08:10 AM)
quote: True, although, if I were pedantic, I'd point out they wouldn't be referred to as "newbie" if they weren't ;) I've been called pedantic many times. Well, 27.5 times, to be precise. 27.5 times today? You are slipping. Edited to correct simply because.

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