RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid

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stellauk -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 6:46:25 PM)
I'm sorry, but I'm firmly on the side of the mother on this one. Both the teacher and the school were in the wrong. I also don't see how comparing how we were treated at school justifies what happened at the school. We are from a different generation, society was different back then, as are most parenting methods and education methods. Todays kids are growing up today in childhood experiences we could never even have envisaged as kids ourselves, the whole social hierarchy of values have changed. Today's technology makes it seem easier from our POV when we compare things with how they were back then, but they're not comparable, just different. Peer pressure I feel for most kids today if it can be compared is much harsher. Why? We live in a much more competitive society, there's greater social division, and kids pick up on all the prejudices and social attitudes of their parents. At the teenage end of the spectrum kids are generally much more open and mature, for example, when it comes to sexual orientation, but this doesn't mean that prejudice and hostility doesn't exist. It does, and it's as vicious, mean and nasty as it is between adults. Having taught children in that age group they behave differently in a school environment to how they behave at home and they still haven't developed the social conditioning and awareness normally associated with socially responsible behaviour. Outside the home environment who is the next important adult role model for the kids? Why it's the teacher, the adults they have contact with on a daily or weekly basis. When you walk into a classroom as a teacher you have maybe twenty or thirty pairs of eyes on you, young eyes, and they pick up on and notice everything. Children are adept at adopting mannerisms, behaviour and attitudes from adults, so therefore teachers share some of the responsibility for the sort of behaviour and attitudes children learn. As a teacher you have to relate to your students on their level and it's of paramount importance if you are to ever hope to maintain discipline in your class. This in itself isn't as easy as it looks. If you think it is, you try keeping the minds of two dozen or so of other people's kids focussed on something for forty five minutes. I mean what is the purpose of discipline here? Is it to regain control in class or is it to punish? There are boundaries which as a teacher you cannot overstep. Why? They're not your kids for one thing. Second thing is, as a teacher, while you are a figure of authority, you are also subject to peer pressure. I can remember being called into teach a class of teenagers in a private high school in Warsaw a month into the semester. One of the boys had pulled a knife on a teacher from Texas and the guy had bodyslammed the kid - half his weight - into the blackboard. It took me another two weeks of twice weekly lessons before I could even think about teaching them any English. I spent the first two lessons just chatting to the kids in Polish, asking them how they saw the lessons, and explaining that no matter what we have two forty five minute lessons every week for the rest of the year to get through and it's best if we all got along with each other for the rest of the year. With the younger kids it was easier. Most were boys, most were interested in soccer, so I introduced the same rules as you find on a soccer pitch - yellow card and red card. I think the worst lesson I managed to show three yellow cards. The red card meant a visit to the principal. I cannot fathom how any adult teacher would want to do something as juvenile as pinning a note to a kid's shirt and sending him home. This is how I see it, something a teenager would do, not an adult, and certainly not someone claiming to be a professional teacher. Nobody kidnapped that teacher and forced her in chains to be a teacher, she applied for the job, so she takes the responsibility. If you can't keep control of a class without resorting to such juvenile measures, then maybe you need to rethink your career options.

lazarus1983 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 6:47:42 PM)
Humiliation, peer pressure, is a wonderful tool. Ah well, another weak child destined to be prey.

frazzle -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 6:48:24 PM)
I dont often disagree with you Lockit. Most teachers of 5 to 12 year olds are early 20's with no parental experience. So their views i take with a pinch of salt. The teachers of older kids, are due to the system so jaded, they see nothing but bad. I admit things might have got better, i wasnt going to take that chance. I pulled my son out of the school system and taught at home.

rick1283 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 6:49:46 PM)
Cant wait to see what happens when he is a teenager! She'll sue the world or something.

frazzle -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 6:51:44 PM)
Well said Stella. you posted that while i was typing.

barelynangel -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:02:08 PM)
Yeah stella said something very important -- the rolemodel concept of what a teacher IS in a kids life. The only thing she didn't address is how kids are taught to respect that nowadays. Kids know they have the power and they utilize it. This story shows how parents don't teach their kids respect for authority, they teach them to ignore same, they bitch when their kids are called on their behavior, they demand teachers be everything BUT teachers to their kids and then whinge when teachers don't get to TEACH their children. They are more worried how a teacher is disciplining their disruptive child instead of Sorry i also don't support the well she chose to be a teacher -- the argument can be raised that nobody forced the parent to BE A PARENT. It goes both ways. What does HAVING kids have to do with it. The kid's in 2nd grade, so he 7. Are you telling me that as a parent you know more how to deal with KIDS in general because well gee i have kids? Sorry, that's just BS. A teacher ISN'T A PARENT, and shouldn't be expected to be one, act like one or interact with kids as one. They are teaching kids and they are doing so based on a curriculm many times in schools that don't have enough money to give them things they need to teach, many times in overcrowded classrooms, and dealing with kids whose parents really don't seem to give a damn. Yeah, they need experience as PARENTS to teach kids. Sorry -- no they don't because they aren't there to be PARENTS. That's part of the issue i believe parents see teachers as this psuedo parent. But yet when it comes to PARENTING the kid the parents bitch because they don't like the psuedo parent's technique. angel

rick1283 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:05:17 PM)
My God. You people see what you are doing to these kids? In sports, there aren't winners and losers anymore. They ALL win! They can't do wrong, they are just kids! Humans have already bypassed natural selection, for the most part, and now you try to destroy the social version that exists in its place? This is why America is weak. This is why China owns us. People can't raise their kids like they need to be raised! The kids start to expect that EVERYTHING be handed to them on a silver platter. That they don't HAVE to work. Look at Obamacare. That's a huge sign that America is dying, anyways. (but that is for another thread). Look at me. I'm a kid, a teen, but a kid. And I think teachers are idiots for being too lenient. That's the only reason some things become a problem, anyways. (ie: bullying, hooky, etc)

rick1283 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Yeah stella said something very important -- the rolemodel concept of what a teacher IS in a kids life. The only thing she didn't address is how kids are taught to respect that nowadays. Kids know they have the power and they utilize it. This story shows how parents don't teach their kids respect for authority, they teach them to ignore same, they bitch when their kids are called on their behavior, they demand teachers be everything BUT teachers to their kids and then whinge when teachers don't get to TEACH their children. They are more worried how a teacher is disciplining their disruptive child instead of Sorry i also don't support the well she chose to be a teacher -- the argument can be raised that nobody forced the parent to BE A PARENT. It goes both ways. What does HAVING kids have to do with it. The kid's in 2nd grade, so he 7. Are you telling me that as a parent you know more how to deal with KIDS in general because well gee i have kids? Sorry, that's just BS. A teacher ISN'T A PARENT, and shouldn't be expected to be one, act like one or interact with kids as one. They are teaching kids and they are doing so based on a curriculm many times in schools that don't have enough money to give them things they need to teach, many times in overcrowded classrooms, and dealing with kids whose parents really don't seem to give a damn. Yeah, they need experience as PARENTS to teach kids. Sorry -- no they don't because they aren't there to be PARENTS. That's part of the issue i believe parents see teachers as this psuedo parent. But yet when it comes to PARENTING the kid the parents bitch because they don't like the psuedo parent's technique. angel A lot of teachers can't AFFORD to be parents.

frazzle -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:16:23 PM)
I didnt see anyone saying teachers had to be parents, but having some experience as to how children think, is usually helpful. Non parents are less likely to fall into that category. Apologies to the under 25's here but how many of you have school age children!!!!! barley you spout on many topics, often from others points of view or situations you have heard about not been in. Those that have read your postings, know you are perfect and we've all got it wrong. I can live with that, and so can my son.

Missokyst -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:26:12 PM)
I had 4. They were taught not to interrupt when they should not, and not to be disrespectful to the teacher. The idea of me going to the news because I did not teach my children how to behave is repellant. I would have talked to them, yes, and they would not have done it again. Going to the news only reinforces the idea that we are a litigious society who only needs to complain because we didn't do our job and someone (not us) needs to answer for it.

barelynangel -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:34:55 PM)
Umm Frazzle dear -- its angel or barelynangel - of course you can be childish and continue to call me barely, and just out of curiosity --- where do you draw the conclusion i have never raised kids? Because i don't agree with you? Actually i have -- twin boys. grins, good lord did you really resort to PERSONALLY attacking me because i disagreed with you? Unbelievable. grins feel better now frazzle? People on here never fail to amaze me in their pettiness. angel PS oh and frazzle just for your peace of mind, the ONLY topics i comment upon unless i say otherwise, are topics I DO have experience with and knowledge of. But i guess you know more about ME than i do.

lazarus1983 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:39:48 PM)
If it makes you feel better, she called you barley. I couldn't figure out who she was talking about at first.

stellauk -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 7:44:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Yeah stella said something very important -- the rolemodel concept of what a teacher IS in a kids life. The only thing she didn't address is how kids are taught to respect that nowadays. Kids know they have the power and they utilize it. This story shows how parents don't teach their kids respect for authority, they teach them to ignore same, they bitch when their kids are called on their behavior, they demand teachers be everything BUT teachers to their kids and then whinge when teachers don't get to TEACH their children. They are more worried how a teacher is disciplining their disruptive child instead of Sorry i also don't support the well she chose to be a teacher -- the argument can be raised that nobody forced the parent to BE A PARENT. It goes both ways. What does HAVING kids have to do with it. The kid's in 2nd grade, so he 7. Are you telling me that as a parent you know more how to deal with KIDS in general because well gee i have kids? Sorry, that's just BS. A teacher ISN'T A PARENT, and shouldn't be expected to be one, act like one or interact with kids as one. They are teaching kids and they are doing so based on a curriculm many times in schools that don't have enough money to give them things they need to teach, many times in overcrowded classrooms, and dealing with kids whose parents really don't seem to give a damn. Yeah, they need experience as PARENTS to teach kids. Sorry -- no they don't because they aren't there to be PARENTS. That's part of the issue i believe parents see teachers as this psuedo parent. But yet when it comes to PARENTING the kid the parents bitch because they don't like the psuedo parent's technique. angel Point taken, but then you have other influences on kids such as the media. And as for the conditions of the education system you can look at the politicians and then.. the people who voted them in. This is the whole problem with society today. It's always someone else's responsibility, always someone else's problem, always someone else's fault. Nothing is going to change until social attitudes change and society as a whole starts rediscovering the concept of social responsibility. I blame the demise of culture and education as a whole. This is where we went wrong. We grew up having role models, a greater degree of social responsibility and a better sense of community. Today's kids have got all the technology we don't have, the iPods, cellphones, computers, wifi and everything else. Not sure how it is on the other side of the Pond but I know how it was in Poland, where every community had a community centre where children and teenagers could learn English, French, German, Russian, develop stuff like music, run film clubs, create theatres, play basketball, soccer, go cycling, take part in exchange programmes, and so on. What do we have in Britain? The housing estates, the street corner, and not much more. Music? The X factor, among others, it costs an arm and a leg to get tickets for a concert or sporting event, way out of reach for most parents. And as for the media.. If you were to believe at least one British newspaper word for word you'd never leave your house because of all the asylum seekers, welfare claimants, terrorists, sex offenders, gangsters, junkies, rapists, homosexuals and socialists that are out there waiting to get you.. This is creating a new culture of distrust and hostility where people jump to conclusions and fear the worst.. The problems run far deeper than just parents and teachers.

barelynangel -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 8:14:07 PM)
Sorry but i blame the parents -- i don't blame the media, or technology. Parenting is hard, but our parents did it with all the new stuff that our generation had that theirs didn't when they were growing up. Each generation has obstacles that the generation before didn't. To me that's no excuse. We were taught to respect the authority of teachers, but it seems as if many of our kids today don't need too be taught that. Instead you have a mom who has a melt down about it ON THE NEWS -- yeah and she is bitching how her kid was embarrassed cause kids at school saw him with a note on his shirt. Its ironic. Its very simple to me, if a teacher gets to the point they feel its necessary to write a note home and pin it on my kid, then it's not the teacher i would be dealing with -- it would be my kid. I taught my child that 1) if a teacher tells you to stop being disruptive in class -- you DO IT and they would probably have extra chores or something to do at home to help him remember this., 2) they would be apologizing TO the teacher (not expecting an apology FROM the teacher) the next day and writing a note of apology to the class and their teacher for their disruptive behavior - not as a punishment but because he needs to acknowledge to himself, the teacher and the kids that the teacher's authority is important, 3) we would work together with him and the teacher to determine how he could do this the best and 4) we would work together to help him deal with any emotions he was feeling because of the consequences of his actions. Not me going to the news bitching about a note on my kids shirt. angel

rick1283 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 8:33:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: frazzle Apologies to the under 25's here but how many of you have school age children!!!!! And I apologize to anyone over 18, are you actually school age children? I'm sorry that my personal accounts, something I go through on a near daily basis isn't a worthy source of information! God forbid that someone young isn't being arrogant, but is, instead, arguing a point that they feel shouldn't need to be argued in the first place! No, I see it on a daily basis. The job of a parent is to TEACH their kid how to succeed in life. It is the parent's job to DISCIPLINE a child when it is unruly or disruptive when it shouldn't be. How else are they going to learn the difference? The simple truth is, they wont. And when someone finally tells them that is IS wrong, all hell breaks loose. Now, I'm not saying the parent should lay a finger on their child, oh no. Then the kid could just call Social Services and have them arrested. I guess the kid will just have to discipline themselves. [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: stellauk This is the whole problem with society today. It's always someone else's responsibility, always someone else's problem, always someone else's fault. Quoted for truth.

lazarus1983 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 8:42:40 PM)
You raise a very good point, rick. I was perplexed when you were dismissed because you weren't a parent, DESPITE you having up to date firsthand information about what we're debating. 'Keep quiet, kid, I'm explaining you.'

NocturnalStalker -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 9:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Umm Frazzle dear -- its angel or barelynangel - of course you can be childish and continue to call me barely, and just out of curiosity --- where do you draw the conclusion i have never raised kids? Because i don't agree with you? Actually i have -- twin boys. grins, good lord did you really resort to PERSONALLY attacking me because i disagreed with you? Unbelievable. grins feel better now frazzle? People on here never fail to amaze me in their pettiness. angel PS oh and frazzle just for your peace of mind, the ONLY topics i comment upon unless i say otherwise, are topics I DO have experience with and knowledge of. But i guess you know more about ME than i do. I think Frazzle just made an innocent error, sunshine.

stellauk -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 9:02:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel i don't blame the media It took a reporter and at least one editor to bring this story to our attention. Knowing how television newsrooms work choices were made and decisions were taken. It might be worth considering why this particular news item was selected and also how it was presented.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 9:35:28 PM)
I blame the parents. At my little cousins School they send home daily accounts of how the student did on a color system green for good yellow for behavior that is inappropriate but was corrected red for behavior that wouldnt stop..... I know for a fact when he gets a red/yellow only his Father talks to him about it. His mother ignores it... because her perfect little angel couldnt POSSIBLY have done that... Most parents dont even talk to their kids about what happened.... In elementary school when we did something like talk in class we lost our ability to go to recess, or eat lunch in the lunch room, or even participate in activities in class.... It didnt kill me it made me learn not to do something in class.... I had notes pinned to me... NOT because i was a terrible child but because i was forgetful... something pinned to you is really hard to loose and forget.... and my dad saw the note and if i lost the note the pin was there and it reminded me to tell him.... Is it inhumane to pin the bus number kindergartners are supposed to go on, because they still do that.... Is it wrong to remind small children of things by giving them something that they cant easily get off? No the kids will live through it as did I... and as did every other poorly treated student in the entire world...

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/8/2011 9:41:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker If you ask me, that teacher shouldn't even be a teacher if they go to that extreme. Extreme???? THIS is what is wrong with kids today!

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