RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 4:19:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Im not going after all the red herrings you threw out except to point out how it was your claim that Muslims hate us because were friends with the Jews. I simply pointed out some of the underappreciated undercurrents directly relating to these relationships emanating directly from the Koran.


That is not the claim I made. What I actually said was:

"You aren't seriously denying that American financial, military and diplomatic support for Israel has increased its attraction as a target to Islamist extremists, are you?" (post #82, this thread)

My claim was expressed in political terms, and is clearly political. Your twist puts it into racial/religious terms, generalising "Islamist extremists" into all "Muslims", "Israel" into "Jews" and political criticism into an insidious anti-Semitism.

These are low tactics. In the circumstances, it seems totally appropriate to return your own words to you .....

quote:

Sanity
You know what they say about denial, ignore the reality all you want, but its on you not me.




And I note your ongoing silence about the specific criticisms advanced about your 'analysis', which is resembling a hate-filled rant more and more as your silence continues.



jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 4:33:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Again, the ancient barbaric practices you feebly point to in some kind of crazy defense of modern Islam committing their many infamously horrific acts are only carried out by Muslims and Leftists in modern times, at least on any kind of relative scale.



Your ignorance (if real and not faked) of modern Christian violence is remarkable. The old testament has been used to justify the murder of abortion doctors.

But admittedly, those Christian extremists are a minority of Christians, just like the extremists that commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are a minority, or are you in agreement with truckinslave that it makes no difference, minority or not, kill em all.



Sanity -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 5:31:13 PM)


I havent expounded on modern Christian violence, so you have no idea what the extent of my knowledge of it is or is not. Its not the topic either, its just another of your stupid red herrings, another excuse for you to hijack your own thread because youre failing in your defense of the indefensible.

The "kill em all" speil, face facts, thats an invention of your own mind as well, as youre flailing madly for anything to throw up as a defense because you have nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Your ignorance (if real and not faked) of modern Christian violence is remarkable. The old testament has been used to justify the murder of abortion doctors.

But admittedly, those Christian extremists are a minority of Christians, just like the extremists that commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are a minority, or are you in agreement with truckinslave that it makes no difference, minority or not, kill em all.



Sanity -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 5:35:40 PM)


No tweaka, not all Muslims, I havent said that so dont try to pin it on me.

Facts are facts though, a Muslim who befriends nonbelievers is an apostate and apostasy is punishable by death, though the apostate Muslims are the moderates by definition, arent they.

And to me its ironically humorous to see that youre writing about how quoting the Koran amounts to a hate filled rant, spot on though. Except you left out the term violent, didnt you.







outhere69 -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 5:49:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Again, the ancient barbaric practices you feebly point to in some kind of crazy defense of modern Islam committing their many infamously horrific acts are only carried out by Muslims and Leftists in modern times, at least on any kind of relative scale.

You forgot Hitler (he wasn't "socialist" any more than East Germany was "democratic"), the various death squads of El Salvador, Torquemada, etc.



jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 5:55:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I havent expounded on modern Christian violence, so you have no idea what the extent of my knowledge of it is or is not. Its not the topic either, its just another of your stupid red herrings, another excuse for you to hijack your own thread because youre failing in your defense of the indefensible.

The "kill em all" speil, face facts, thats an invention of your own mind as well, as youre flailing madly for anything to throw up as a defense because you have nothing.




Actually, truckinslave has made it clear his feelings on the topic of Muslims.

Which is my point, it is a undeniable fact that Muslims are not the ONLY source for Domestic Terrorism in the United States, nor is it by far the most immediate threat. Muslims are a target of convenience for Republicans on capital hill. Anyone that brought up other groups were shouted down by Republican members of the committee.


Domestic terrorism in the United States between 1980 and 2000 consisted of 250 of the 335 incidents confirmed as or suspected to be terrorist acts by the FBI. These 250 attacks are considered domestic by the FBI because they were carried out by U.S. citizens.

Now, look closely at the Muslims that made terrorist attacks within the US at that time, you will find there was only ONE incident, the First world trade center bombing.


quote:

A new report found that the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009; in 2010 twenty American Muslims were arrested for terrorism, down from 2009′s peak of forty-seven; in 2010 there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims compared to the ten Muslim Americans arrested for domestic plots; the report supports the argument that fears of domestic radicalization are exaggerated, and was released after the American woman calling herself “Jihad Jane” pled guilty to recruiting terrorists to kill a Swedish cartoonist; Representative Peter King is preparing for domestic radicalization hearings in the House’s Homeland Security committee. Domestic terrorism: Study shows more non-Muslim terrorists in U.S.



Sanity -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 6:05:13 PM)


Thats an interesting debate for another thread and that very topic has been a part of different threads in fact and in my opinion your argument wasnt the winner by any stretch. As regards the death squads you mention please take note of my caveat

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Again, the ancient barbaric practices you feebly point to in some kind of crazy defense of modern Islam committing their many infamously horrific acts are only carried out by Muslims and Leftists in modern times, at least on any kind of relative scale.

You forgot Hitler (he wasn't "socialist" any more than East Germany was "democratic"), the various death squads of El Salvador, Torquemada, etc.




jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 6:12:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Again, the ancient barbaric practices you feebly point to in some kind of crazy defense of modern Islam committing their many infamously horrific acts are only carried out by Muslims and Leftists in modern times, at least on any kind of relative scale.

You forgot Hitler (he wasn't "socialist" any more than East Germany was "democratic"), the various death squads of El Salvador, Torquemada, etc.




Okay, exactly what does that have to do with singling out Muslims in the hearings on Domestic Terrorism. I havent seen any death squads operating in the US.



Sanity -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 6:44:29 PM)


Think of the fact-finding hearings as a discussion thread. All the leftists can think of is attempt a derail. Scream and rant about anything and everything other than the topic.





jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 7:20:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Think of the fact-finding hearings as a discussion thread. All the leftists can think of is attempt a derail. Scream and rant about anything and everything other than the topic.






Sanity, I just think that singling out one group in these hearings is asking for trouble. Since 9/11/01 there have been 139 radicalized Muslim Americans arrested for terrorism plots. Fewer than a third of that number actually committed an act of violence. That is an average of 17.9 a year. Granted in 2009 there were forty seven arrests of Muslims on terrorism charges, was largely an aberration due to the arrest of a group of seventeen Somali-Americans who had joined al-Shabaab in Somalia. Please note, these seventeen were arrested in Somalia, and were involved in terrorist activities outside the US.

However there have been more NON-Muslims arrested on charges of plotting domestic terrorist acts, for example last year there were ten confirmed Muslim domestic terrorist plots in which there were arrests made. There were 20 non-Muslim involved terrorist plots in which arrests were made.

Logic dictates that the groups responsible for more plots of domestic terrorism are the bigger threat.



tweakabelle -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 7:53:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Think of the fact-finding hearings as a discussion thread. All the leftists can think of is attempt a derail. Scream and rant about anything and everything other than the topic.





Cute attempt to wriggle off the hook! :)

Sadly a fact finding inquiry into Islamic terrorism that reflects your belief that matters such as:
the statements of convicted terrorists;
the statements and goals of terrorist groups;
the analysis of American military commanders;
the entire Israeli situation; and
all the other matters you have described as "red herrings"*
are irrelevant will never amount to anything more than an exercise in scaremongering and Islam-bashing.

But then, that's all it is designed to be isn't it?


*see my post # 109, page 6 this thread for a complete list of "red herrings" and Sanity's description of same as "red herrings" in post # 116, page 6 this thread.



Edwynn -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/14/2011 9:38:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Think of the fact-finding hearings as a discussion thread. All the leftists can think of is attempt a derail. Scream and rant about anything and everything other than the topic.




Talk about lack of comprehension.


People are speaking quite directly to the topic and calling it out for the time wasting fear mongering exercise that it in fact is. That is a fact. No need to "find" it. Here's the news; confronting and contradicting idiocy constitutes being "off topic" only for those who stupidly try to push this crap on others, and are disappointed that not everybody falls in line with such lunacy. Others being at the same level of nutcase as yourself would display being "on topic," are we to take it? Good luck with that one.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 12:49:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Think of the fact-finding hearings as a discussion thread. All the leftists can think of is attempt a derail. Scream and rant about anything and everything other than the topic.




Talk about lack of comprehension.


People are speaking quite directly to the topic and calling it out for the time wasting fear mongering exercise that it in fact is. That is a fact. No need to "find" it. Here's the news; confronting and contradicting idiocy constitutes being "off topic" only for those who stupidly try to push this crap on others, and are disappointed that not everybody falls in line with such lunacy. Others being at the same level of nutcase as yourself would display being "on topic," are we to take it? Good luck with that one.




QED



mnottertail -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:29:16 AM)

Willbur.  purveryor of credible citations; no see 'um, ad nauseam.

FYS

(fixed your sigline)



truckinslave -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:36:55 AM)

quote:

Religious intolerance is alive and well in the United States, and Sanity, Truckinslave


Bullshit.
Find where I've said one negative thing about Buddhism or Shintoism or Judaism or any other religion save Islam.

My hatred of Islam (not individual Muslims, incidentally; sort of a "hate the sin love the sinner" thing) came from rereading the Koran after 9/11.

You are where I was when I read it (large parts of it) as part of a comparative religions course in high school. "They cannot", I thought in my adolescent naivete, "believe this shit".

I now realize they do.
You are still stuck in denial.



mnottertail -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:38:42 AM)

How do you feel about changing the name of Sons of Norway to sons of bitches, raising the entrance rates and letting all you neo-cons join as slaves?



truckinslave -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:40:03 AM)

quote:

I really do hate to tell you but in every christian service I have attended, there are bible readings from the OLD and NEW testaments.


Haven't been to many Church of Christ services, uh?

The meaning of the verse in Luke is quite explicit, why do you seek to distort it?



mnottertail -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:44:13 AM)

There is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood.?  Or were you pining your hopes on some other verse?



Sanity -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:45:33 AM)


Its always humorous to see leftists bemoaning the lack of religious tolerance among conservatives, but what they dont get is that we are discussing the religion itself as it is written and as it is practiced and not the individuals. Imagine leftists debating bible verses for example, or the rites of confession... which is the essence of what we are doing in relation to our discussion of Islam.

If "intolerance" is the act of introducing factual evidence into a debate for the purpose of discussion then yes, we are guilty as charged. But thats not what intolerance is, is it?

Intolerance is what the left practices, towards Christianity and especially Catholicism and Mormonism (as we have seen in this thread already from more than one player).



mnottertail -> RE: Republican Islamaphobia in terrorist hearings (3/15/2011 6:48:25 AM)

So you are debating the rites of confession in Islam?

Why didn't I get the memo, mr panreligionism?



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