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RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 12:33:31 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Yes and no, IB. I'm all for living life as I choose, but some things are detrimental to others. Something like porn addiction doesn't necessarily stop being an issue just because someone starts a relationship. The partners of the folks with the problem often get very hurt by it. Some folks even have sex with their partners less because they get so wrapped up in the porn itself. They sneak to watch it, masturbate, and then are too 'spent' to have sex with their partner. The porn becomes more important than the person they are sharing their life with on some scale. They get neglected, hurt, and confused. That's how most people would feel if their partner didn't want to have sex with them, but were masturbating and watching plenty of porn.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 61

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 1:07:16 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

It's certainly fine to have an opinion. It's a shame it's not based on reality and that science disproves you. But hey, some people still believe the world is flat. Good on you for not letting truth get in the way of sticking to your guns.

Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

I know nothing about neurobiology. But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

The science is just not there yet!

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 3/29/2011 1:19:15 PM >

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 62

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 1:40:33 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Cheating be damned!....the people who propose that as a deterent are cheating you from enjoying life as YOU choose.

Just so long as you don't expect them to provide the palliative care when you're dying of lung cancer.

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 63

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 2:25:15 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

I know nothing about neurobiology. But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

The science is just not there yet!

BadOne

Take a look under the Mayo Clinic for Doo-Sup Choi, Ph.D. There's some fascinating stuff linked on his page. He's not the only one, but since you mentioned the Mayo Clinic in particular, I thought you might be interested in seeing it.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 64

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 2:27:21 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

FR

If I were a psychiatrist, I'd need an *awful* lot of convincing from a 19 year old male that his use of porn was so prolific that it warranted the term 'addiction'. Christ, at that age, the back end of a bus would give me oak in my pants. I'd say: don't sweat it too much - not yet.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 65

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 2:33:52 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Cheating be damned!....the people who propose that as a deterent are cheating you from enjoying life as YOU choose.

Just so long as you don't expect them to provide the palliative care when you're dying of lung cancer.

<thinks>

If I book early, can I reserve you for my final days?

Pretty please :)

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 66

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 2:45:42 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline

Hi ranja
Here's my bias: I'm an addict/alcoholic. I'm not an authority on addictions other than my own.

I have heard from my therapist as well as many other addicts that it is not unusual to switch addictions--and I did find myself heading down the path of porn addiction --and thankfully, I had enough self-awareness to recognize it (after seeing two friend's lives ruined) to apply the principles I practice in my 12-step program and work with a therapist--and I'm now extremely careful to make sure that I do NOT end up with one more addiction to add to the list .

It has nothing to do with willpower. Willpower is something that "normal" people are able to exercise so that they do not overindulge. If you have never had the experience of a complete loss of control and inability to control an addiction, I can only tell you that it is someplace you never want to go.

Your blanket statement to the effect that all addicts cheat--I'm assuming you're referring to Sex-love addicts. I know a number of sex/love addicts who do cheat--I also know a few who don't--but they also do not engage in monogamy either, so while they aren't cheating, they aren't exactly addressing their problem either. I know it's terrible--it destroys lives--and I absolutely can't stand cheaters, particularly as someone who was married to one. (she still denies it.) I can't throw stones too far however--I wasn't exactly an angel when my addiction was unaddressed--I did a lot of things I'm not proud of, and had to make a lot of amends to people for the things I did when I was drinking.

The life I lead today is committed to doing good things for people. I'm sure that at some point, there were those that wrote me off as a worthless drunk and a dirtbag. I'm glad that I met people who believed in my potential, and helped me through the pain of addiction so that I could become a productive member of society, instead of a drain upon it. I have to believe that for many of the active addicts out there, there is still hope for them.

Going all the way back to the original OP-- it's one thing to say "man, I look at a LOT of porn" but to admit to a porn addiction--I hope that if he really does have an addiction, that he gets the help that is out there. People intervened in my life when I was still young--I got clean and sober at 22 years old--it saved me from 20+ years of extra suffering & wreaking havoc on the lives of others.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 67

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 3:00:19 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

I know nothing about neurobiology. But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

The science is just not there yet!

BadOne

Take a look under the Mayo Clinic for Doo-Sup Choi, Ph.D. There's some fascinating stuff linked on his page. He's not the only one, but since you mentioned the Mayo Clinic in particular, I thought you might be interested in seeing it.

Yep Ill go check it out. Im sure you figured out from my post that because a couple of doctors think there maybe a causal link to addiction does not make it so.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 68

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 3:12:16 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I'm actually not trying to put it up as iron clad proof. Seems like there is some work being done though. Must be a fascinating line of research.

If we ever did get to the point through science of knowing how to "fix" a person who struggled with addiction, that would be a plus in My eyes. I'm always glad to hear when people have had their own personal success, but not everybody is that lucky or has the same options.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 69

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 3:40:26 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If we ever did get to the point through science of knowing how to "fix" a person who struggled with addiction

Very close now. The specific biochemical pathways are already known. We already have a few drugs in test that interfere with them. Every day we are expanding our real knowledge of the human body and brain. All the way up until somewhere very recent, medicine was WAY more art than science... something akin to praying to the spirits when it didn't rain. We are finally beginning to understand how it works for real.

And oh boy, are we all gonna be surprised when we find out things about humans that we don't want to know.

@Peon
That's a really good point. I answered his question as given. But yeah, like you, given what the NORMAL sex drive is for a male at that age I'm struggling to understand what "addictive" would look like and how I'd tell the difference.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 70

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 3:49:35 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
<thinks>

If I book early, can I reserve you for my final days?

Pretty please :)

I've got two parents as it is, thanks

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 71

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 3:55:39 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I've got two parents as it is, thanks

<Glum>

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 72

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 4:10:50 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
<thinks>

If I book early, can I reserve you for my final days?

Pretty please :)

I've got two parents as it is, thanks

Excellent! *Ouch*

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 73

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 4:15:31 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

It's certainly fine to have an opinion. It's a shame it's not based on reality and that science disproves you. But hey, some people still believe the world is flat. Good on you for not letting truth get in the way of sticking to your guns.

Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

Actually, I do.
I know nothing about neurobiology.

I don't profess to know everything about it. But I do know a little something after working in the field for many years.

But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

I did a check through the academic journals as well and found several articles that back up my statements. Check "dopamine".

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

I won't argue with you except to say that it's generally NOT people who work in the field. Those folks are the most "personal responsiblity" people I've ever met. Very accountability focused.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

See above.

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

And you'd be wrong. It's certainly true that not EVERYTHING is biology based. There has to be action and responsibility on the part of the addict. That's why 12 step programs and hospital programs teach addicts about people places and things. But it is not SOLELY about action. There are links between biology and addiction. This is why behavior modification, medication, and support are used in conjunction with each other.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

See above.

The science is just not there yet!

Actually it is - in the medical and academic journals. It is not a perfect science, but there are major inroads.
BadOne

Best wishes,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 74

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 4:17:41 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm actually not trying to put it up as iron clad proof. Seems like there is some work being done though. Must be a fascinating line of research.

If we ever did get to the point through science of knowing how to "fix" a person who struggled with addiction, that would be a plus in My eyes. I'm always glad to hear when people have had their own personal success, but not everybody is that lucky or has the same options.

Oh i understand exactly where your coming from. I was responding to "everyone" who reads this thread.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 75

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 4:45:47 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

It's certainly fine to have an opinion. It's a shame it's not based on reality and that science disproves you. But hey, some people still believe the world is flat. Good on you for not letting truth get in the way of sticking to your guns.

Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

Actually, I do.
I know nothing about neurobiology.

I don't profess to know everything about it. But I do know a little something after working in the field for many years.

But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

I did a check through the academic journals as well and found several articles that back up my statements. Check "dopamine".

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

I won't argue with you except to say that it's generally NOT people who work in the field. Those folks are the most "personal responsiblity" people I've ever met. Very accountability focused.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

See above.

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

And you'd be wrong. It's certainly true that not EVERYTHING is biology based. There has to be action and responsibility on the part of the addict. That's why 12 step programs and hospital programs teach addicts about people places and things. But it is not SOLELY about action. There are links between biology and addiction. This is why behavior modification, medication, and support are used in conjunction with each other.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

See above.

The science is just not there yet!

Actually it is - in the medical and academic journals. It is not a perfect science, but there are major inroads.
BadOne

Best wishes,
sunshine

Actually it's NOT

Show me just one medical association that states in a definitive manner that addiction is caused by neurobiology! I know you can't because its not a Valid point You are just plain wrong

I knew you would respond like this. I never said that research was not being done. I said that there is nothing conclusive Why do you "refuse" to accept that the AMA, New England journal of medicine, the Mayo Clinic, and the VA to name a few dont agree with your assessment??? Ya know for every paper you cite I could cite 20 that state otherwise. The point is the medical community as a whole will not make statements that are not back up by science. whereas you dont seem to have a problem with it

I dont know what your "agenda" is to belittle ppl who dont agree with you but it only make YOU look foolish.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 76

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 4:52:10 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

It's certainly fine to have an opinion. It's a shame it's not based on reality and that science disproves you. But hey, some people still believe the world is flat. Good on you for not letting truth get in the way of sticking to your guns.

Ya know what really irks me is when ppl think they are right and go to great lengths to belittle others who disagree. Much like this post. I know a something about being a addict cuz i was one. sunny you really have no clue what your talking about!

I know nothing about neurobiology. But I did a quick check of 2 well respected web <in the medical community> sites. The mayo clinic and E medicine and guess what ..neither one listed a persons neurobiology as a possible cause. Or changing the neurobiology thru drugs as a treatment.

We all know there is a certain segment of the population some <yes even social workers, doctors> that likes to make excuses for others.

If neurobiology is one of the leading causes of addiction A. Why hasn't anyone told the addicts namely ME? B. Why hasn't anyone told this to the Mayo Clinic???

My guess is sunshinemiss and a few others will grab any shred of a possible link between neurobiology and addiction and claim it as fact. When in reality the medical community is a very cautious bunch of folks <Some think to slow to act> and they require years and years of clinical trials and research before they give the OK to a treatment of any kind.

So until someone informs the mainstream medical community < ya know mayo clinic, VA them types> that neurobiology is one of the causes of addiction. I aint buying it for one minute

The science is just not there yet!

BadOne

You are correct that the VA has some of the top researchers in the field of addictions.

And yes, those same researchers are presenting findings on the neuroscience and neurobiology of addiction.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

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30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 77

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 5:28:29 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

nm. too personal.

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 78

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 6:36:47 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

an addict is always a cheat

quote:

I would guess that every addict is unfaithful to their partners in some fashion.

It goes hand in hand with being an addict.
I smoke, I have for roughly 35 years...thus I am an addict. However, I fail to see how this makes me a cheat. I don't cheat, well except at Monopoly...I always cheat at Monopoly, I never win, so the cheating is the fun of it.

maybe when you are choking and gasping for breath you might reconsider that statement. What about the 35 x 365 x $4.00/pack or the $38,325 you could have spent elsewhere or invested?

What about when you develop emphysema or COPD and your partner is saddled with a guy that no longer can fulfill her needs or has become nothing more than an emotional, financial and physical burden?

Perhaps your partner gets cheated out of ten years or more of your company because you were an addict. What about the second hand smoke people had to endure to be in your company?

There are all sorts of ways that our addictions take away from ourselves as well as those around us.

The question is do we allow ourselves to see it?

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 79

RE: Can I ever cut it as a Dom? - 3/29/2011 6:42:40 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Cheating be damned!....the people who propose that as a deterent are cheating you from enjoying life as YOU choose. Your going to cark it when it is your time and nothing you sat or do is going to radically change that. So even have the privelage on choosing the time, place and method of their death.. Their right not for anyone else to argue..

Strewth be damned. it's okay to be weak and selfish. If that is where your code of honor lies.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 80

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