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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/3/2011 10:31:34 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline 		It seems to me that a good service slave, not unlike a good butler, is one who knows instinctively when their service is proper and when it is not. For some, the idea of standing up for any reason but to vacate the home or the bowels is anathema, and the ideal servant accounts for that and anticipates all needs whatsoever. For others, a degree of self-sufficiency is desirable, and the ideal servant therefore fulfills only the needs which the master finds unfulfilling. Still others find any sort of visible service distasteful, though I suspect this is uncommon in dominants, and in this case any service which does occur must be indirect, cleaning and so on rather than cooking or serving. Further, as things, which is to say people, change, so must the degree of service.

Are these things likely to exist in perfection? Of course not. But then, what is? He who shoots for the stars may miss badly and yet reach the moon, but he who shoots for the steeple will achieve little even in success.


_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/3/2011 11:03:47 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

It seems to me that a good service slave, not unlike a good butler, is one who knows instinctively when their service is proper and when it is not.


Greetings,

With all due respect i don't encounter many that would appreciate that level of service, though it's what i've found most valuable in my own experiences. We rarely speak of these things or motivate slaves to acquaint themselves with the various stations to amplify their person and add another dimension of efficiency to the household. But to their credit, the behavior may not be warranted or encouraged by the dominant. Nonetheless it is nice to see the subject raised every now and again.

quote:

He who shoots for the stars may miss badly and yet reach the moon, but he who shoots for the steeple will achieve little even in success.


Thank you for the timely reminder.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/3/2011 11:32:26 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

It seems to me that a good service slave, not unlike a good butler, is one who knows instinctively when their service is proper and when it is not.


Greetings,

With all due respect i don't encounter many that would appreciate that level of service, though it's what i've found most valuable in my own experiences.


Can you clarify this statement, please?

quote:

We rarely speak of these things or motivate slaves to acquaint themselves with the various stations to amplify their person and add another dimension of efficiency to the household. But to their credit, the behavior may not be warranted or encouraged by the dominant. Nonetheless it is nice to see the subject raised every now and again.


You're probably right - I imagine this is in part because the majority of the world has next to no familiarity with what household servants actually do and how they do it. Most people have been to enough decent restaurants to know what a chef's role ought to be, and therefore can approximate that sort of service within the boundaries of their own talents, but how many do you know who have ever lived in a household with a proper staff of servants?

Nonetheless, I think a detailed study of their habits does people on both sides of the leash good, even if it is only in the abstract. Knowing precisely what it is you expect is only fair as a dom, and knowing precisely how to deliver on those expectations is quite ideal in a sub. Naturally not everyone on either side of the leash wants any kind of service whatsoever, and that's fine, but for those of us with such preferences it is wise to look to the examples set forth by society.


_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 5:16:27 AM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline 		This thread makes me wonder about something, seeing how many dominants have expressed something like "if I want to do something for myself, I sure as heck am going to do it, I don't need to ask permission!"

I know a vanilla couple where the wife has OCD and is an extreme clean and control freak.
She wants her house in a Martha-Sterward-esque vision of perfection at all time.

Because of this, her husband is literally not allowed to lift a finger in the house. She does everything, including serving him at his beck and call as far as drinks and food goes.
However, this isn't because he dominates her, but because he is not allowed to help, because she feels he won't do it perfectly to her standards.

In essence, she's basically dominating him into being served like most BDSM dominants want to be served, minus the whole "if I want to do something for myself, I sure as heck am going to do it, I don't need to ask permission!" option.

Now my question is this: has anybody ever seen this type of behavior in a BDSM dominant?
Where the dominant is basically over controlling in the way that they force the submissive to be passive while they themselves take care of everything, no matter how much the submissive may want to help/serve?

Considering how badly most submissives seems to need to serve, I'm not even sure how a relationship with a dominant who wants to do everything themselves and a serving type submissive would work...

_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 5:27:53 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hiya Ishtarr,

Trust me, it can work. The short answer, is that the submissive just needs to be clear that part of -her- (or his) needs include being of service. That if she is to thrive, excel, grow (assuming that is her dominant's goal as well) that he needs to give her the clear guidance as to how that should come about. If her dominant wishes to cook, clean, fold laundry, scrub floors, etc then she needs to be given direction as to what purpose, tasks, and directions her efforts should be directed.

Obviously, if they *both* want to scrub toilets, there's going to be some relationship incompatibility that might be difficult to overcome.....

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 4/4/2011 5:28:09 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 7:53:26 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

Can you clarify this statement, please?


Greetings Palliata,

i'm addressing the desire for someone possessing the skill set or interest in developing their proficiency in butlering. Most associate that form of training with high protocol environments, though that need not be the case. It is a matter of honing the individual's ability to be an effective household manager in every sense of the word. This is moot if the dominant is unaware of its merits or is uninterested in its implementation.

quote:

You're probably right - I imagine this is in part because the majority of the world has next to no familiarity with what household servants actually do and how they do it. Most people have been to enough decent restaurants to know what a chef's role ought to be, and therefore can approximate that sort of service within the boundaries of their own talents, but how many do you know who have ever lived in a household with a proper staff of servants?


my parents impressed upon us at an early age that the omission of direct experience was no excuse for ignorance. We were expected to explore life's nooks and crannies irregardless if engagement was a possibility at the time of discovery, the knowledge gained was still useful. With all the resources at our disposal, discovering the nuances of household management wouldn't be challenging if the individual was willing to do the legwork. And it's been well proven that dominant persons have no problem accepting a leadership role when many of them are anything but in their daily lives. But in this particular area of their lives they're in control. The same applies to the household. But perhaps the motivation to make it happen isn't strong. One never knows.

quote:

Naturally not everyone on either side of the leash wants any kind of service whatsoever, and that's fine, but for those of us with such preferences it is wise to look to the examples set forth by society.


i've done this in many areas and involved myself with organizations that would fill in the gaps and add to my portfolio so to speak. my activities were driven by genuine interest that was not influenced by BDSM, but merely a reflection of the passion i had for the subject. Exposure begets new discoveries and a bit of wonderment in the process.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 8:15:59 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

Where the dominant is basically over controlling in the way that they force the submissive to be passive while they themselves take care of everything, no matter how much the submissive may want to help/serve?


Greetings Ishtarr,

In my opinion many readily assume that service entails physical exertion and it's difficult to remove that idea from the landscape. There are many ways to serve and my personal experiences on the kneel were not domestically driven. my previous partners believed it was a not a wise utilization of my skill sets. There were too many areas that could benefit from my expertise. And that is how we interacted. However, i didn't feel limited or complain that i wasn't doing the same things as the next person. i've never compared my slavehood to other people. It's pretty futile in my opinion.

i suspect this has a lot to do with the final sentence in your comment. my want is motivated by his wants and needs. i make a concerted effort to keep them aligned and when it begins to unravel i'll tell him. The portion quoted seems unbalanced and would be viewed as incompatibility in my mind. i'd question why the individual ever got involved with someone that had little use for "her brand" of service if she wasn't willing to adapt. And to this i'd add, the dominant isn't required to use everything she's got in the tank. He's free to pick and choose according to preference. This is where knowing oneself is paramount. i'd liken that behavior to one yielding to the idea rather than its reality.

quote:

Considering how badly most submissives seems to need to serve, I'm not even sure how a relationship with a dominant who wants to do everything themselves and a serving type submissive would work...


And this is where we part ways in our line of thinking. Service doesn't always entail doing. There are a host of associations one can introduce regarding the concept. If you limit its scope you'll inevitably run out of ways to express it. i was taught that my entire being is an aspect of service to my Keeper. That philosophy impresses his image in the forefront and latter regions of my mind. On more than one occasion it has inspired me to raise the bar, reconsider a thought or action, meet a challenge that appeared impossible, undertake an activity i'd rather not do, and so on. i don't believe the persons mentioned need to serve. i think they're determined to serve according to their preconceptions that have little to do with the other party.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 11:39:47 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm thankful I don't have this problem currently, but have dealt with it in the past.

I tend to like to have my own space at times, and like do a few things for myself
without it turning into some "Why won't you let me do it for you" service battle.

At the moment, I wouldn't mind a little clutter like this in my life and would put
it to good use. lol




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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/4/2011 12:01:45 PM   
wannabeacdwife


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/28/2010
From: Washington, DC 20016 US
Status: offline 		I could use some personal direction in my own goal versus "task" vision. I admit to being somewhat confused about this point; but also am proud of having figured out much that would have (and has) stumped others in their pursuit of self fulfillment and the fulfillment of others. To wit, my trans or pan-gendered nature stopped perplexing me when I was three; I came from an extremely abusive family background but have managed to avoid self destructive tendencies such as alcohol or drug abuse, etc. and also to learn to a moderate degree that my nature is both feminine and submissive. Where I have trouble is the degree (or maybe a better word would be "type" of submissiveness that will empower me to be the best and most loving partner to a dominant man.

I know for example that humiliation, verbal or otherwise is not for me, personally; that idea doesn't make me feel humble, it makes me feel troubled. On the other hand, I love the idea of being instructed and guided to serve a man in any way that was mutually significant, from dressing purely to please him to showing my complete embracing of his ideals through obedience to his wishes; desire deeply to be a refuge for a strong minded partner in which he can receive a measure of satisfaction, pleasure and personal fulfillment. The more I am able to give of myself to him, the more "whole" I feel. This scenario has not happened fully in my life yet; several times some elements were in place and I recognize them for their beauty. If "the" dominant soul mate to my submissive heart-felt soul search is ever near me, I hope we recognize each other.

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/5/2011 4:02:16 AM   
liveinposs4bislv


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Most successful relationships benefit from well defined boundaries.
If you need space, then make that part of yours.
It sounds like you are being subservient to the need of your slave to 'look after' you.
being under your feet is probably topping from the bottom

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/5/2011 1:23:03 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Do you ever get fed up with having someone under your feet (sometimes literally) and miss doing things for yourself?

To qualify the question: you have a slave 24/7 who wants to be pleasing and serve you. Don't you wish sometimes that you had the personal space without upsetting the feelings of a slave or anyone else and just get up and potter, make coffee or food when and where you feel like? My answer is to have the focus not on personal service but on domestic duties.


I love being spoiled and pampered but it gets a tad over the top at times and I need to remind people I am not a cripple.. These are the times when I want to fire up the 4x4 hook the boat trailer on and go fishing for the day (or night or even the bloody weekend) just to get some peace..



IB, I'm a massive fan of peace and quiet.

Two options I suppose:

a) Find a woman who likes her own space as much as you like your own space.

b) Find a woman who knows when enthusiasm isn't in order.

Personally, I go for b.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/15/2011 11:34:54 AM   
wannabeacdwife


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/28/2010
From: Washington, DC 20016 US
Status: offline 		I think this site in general and this thread in particular is very thought provoking in a positive way. I remember when I was little, my almost-always absent mother would say to me in her soft southern accent "Don't hang on me hon" on the rare evenings when she was both mentally (not drunk) and physically present. My response? I took my 8, 9, or 10-year-old self, placed my arms around the back of her neck and lifted up my feet, literally doing just that (hanging on her, I mean.) Luckily for her, I was a small child! So, was I being 'dominant'? I was inevitably placing myself in a precarious position since one never knew how stable my mother was on her feet - that factor directly correlated to how many glasses of alcohol she had consumed.) I do remember that it irritated her immensely to my sheer delight! My sense of humor has been my salvation.

How does that work? I'm not really asking for a response here, just rhetoric intended for anyone who might find it amusing or an interesting thought to ponder. For me its about who I am and how I got to be that person.

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/15/2011 1:41:56 PM   
Asherscorp1


Posts: 143
Joined: 3/6/2011
Status: offline 		Lol. I believe my Master has the laziest nature I have ever encountered. That is not a negative thing, it's simply part of His nature just as His deeply hedonistic streak. So, being lazy and hedonistic there is nothing better than having me there every moment possible to dance attendance upon His every whim. That said, even He occaisionally has moments where He wants the house to Himself. I make sure He has food, drink, a book and anything else He desires then He sends me out with my kid to the park. Works great for everyone.

_____________________________

"The path to slavery is so narrow that two cannot walk upon it at the same time, hence why the slave must crawl behind." -- Unknown


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/17/2011 7:29:01 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Do you ever get fed up with having someone under your feet (sometimes literally) and miss doing things for yourself?

To qualify the question: you have a slave 24/7 who wants to be pleasing and serve you. Don't you wish sometimes that you had the personal space without upsetting the feelings of a slave or anyone else and just get up and potter, make coffee or food when and where you feel like? My answer is to have the focus not on personal service but on domestic duties.


I love being spoiled and pampered but it gets a tad over the top at times and I need to remind people I am not a cripple.. These are the times when I want to fire up the 4x4 hook the boat trailer on and go fishing for the day (or night or even the bloody weekend) just to get some peace..



Regardless of the type of relationship one is in, we all tend to need our own space. I am afraid being attached at the hip, regardless of how wonderful they might be, is a recipe for relationship suicide

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/18/2011 10:35:10 AM   
Ariane23


Posts: 88
Joined: 12/2/2007
Status: offline 		I thrive on my solitude. It would take a pretty intense relationship for me to allow someone to serve me 24/7, in person. Having a sub around for a day or two is plenty of service. Then I'm ready for a rest.

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/18/2011 7:22:20 PM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
It seems to me that a good service slave, not unlike a good butler, is one who knows instinctively when their service is proper and when it is not.


Yes. this is pretty easy to tell, even in the beginning. You just keep your eyes and ears open, observing and noting everything of import. The "when in doubt, ask" principle is pretty important in the beginning as well because presumption is rude and beyond your place. It may make the person you are serving uncomfortable/embarrassed or annoyed (depends on the person). When you ask, it helps to ask about a general rule or preference, not one specific thing, because if you ask about the specific service, you'll have to ask again about a second specific service that is similar to but not quite the same as the first one, and thus increase the possibility of being annoying. Luckily, it only takes a couple of weeks to get 80 percent of that down and then a few more months to get the other 20 percent.

But besides service there are also peeves, irritations, annoyances. A slave learns about those as he or she goes, unfortunately. Very few dominants hand you a list of their pet peeves, with the words "Don't Do This:" written on the top (most unreasonable of them, I think. ). Again, when in doubt, I think it's wise to refrain from doing something until you can find out. Even if you're certain something will be received well. Lots of times you can become convinced that something special you do will be appreciated by everyone because someone you once knew really liked it, but that is not always the case. A servant new to a master's or mistress's household won't go too wrong, however, if she behaves like an ambassador in a very difficult/sensitive country. Until you understands the lay of the land do not assume that any of your customs are "their" customs or will be interpreted positively. Go slowly, cautiously, ever-so-politely, constantly observe the effect your actions or speech has, be ready to apologize profusely as soon as you notice or are made aware of a shortcoming and readjust/change course at a moment's notice, should you offend. And above all, don't take any of this personally. Uncomfortable as it is, it's a natural part of the learning/adjustment process.

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/18/2011 8:51:46 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline 		Very true. As with most things in interpersonal relationships, more communication is usually better. As you say, tread lightly, attempt to anticipate everything, and when you can't do so communicate that.We'd rather know you're confused then think you're obstinate.


_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/19/2011 5:43:10 PM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
quote:

We'd rather know you're confused then think you're obstinate.


LOL, yes, that would be a very important distinction to get across, given the responses a judgement of "obstinate" is likely to bring one's way.

If the slave or servant can remember at all times that she is there to serve him and not the other way around, everything, including harsh-sounding corrections for presumptuous service, becomes so much easier to bear. You realize that you haven't been serving well, you feel remorse for that, and corrections, particularly when harsh, provide you with extremely useful information about the person you're trying to serve: they point out clearly and unambiguously what not to do, and when your attitude is screwed on right, you often profusely thank your owner for expressing his expectations so clearly to you.

Sometimes I think when people read about the importance of clear, direct, and plentiful communication, they imagine two earnest anime-eyed persons sitting cross-legged on a bed having a deep, meaningful, soul-to-soul, soft fluffy comfy-cushions GENTLE no-feelings-offended discussion among two equal and highly intellectual parties about what the servant's roles, responsibilities and behaviors should be. The reality, particularly if you are a slave, tends to be a wee bit different. For one thing, only one person may be sitting on the bed: the other may be bowed on the floor with his or her ass up in the air, ordered to silence and told to LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY as s/he is roundly scolded and caned. But to me, there's nothing in that scenario that doesn't meet the requirements of clear communication. Information combined with pain tends to be much clearer than pure information alone, and there's a far better retention rate, as well.

(in reply to Palliata)
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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/19/2011 7:21:40 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

If the slave or servant can remember at all times that she is there to serve him and not the other way around, everything, including harsh-sounding corrections for presumptuous service, becomes so much easier to bear.


This statement does not coalesce with the comments that followed. As a matter of fact, your remarks almost oppose what you've indicated beforehand. That degree of attention and self-policing rarely warrants the responses mentioned. And to suggest that pain is a better teacher than mere words alone might suggest one needs to be hurt to digest the lesson. He shouldn't have to beat my ass to get his point of across. The mere fact we're having the discussion should be so off putting to the point where that utterance is all the correction one needs. i calibrate myself to him, not a switch.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/19/2011 9:13:04 PM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

If the slave or servant can remember at all times that she is there to serve him and not the other way around, everything, including harsh-sounding corrections for presumptuous service, becomes so much easier to bear.


This statement does not coalesce with the comments that followed. As a matter of fact, your remarks almost oppose what you've indicated beforehand. That degree of attention and self-policing rarely warrants the responses mentioned. And to suggest that pain is a better teacher than mere words alone might suggest one needs to be hurt to digest the lesson. He shouldn't have to beat my ass to get his point of across. The mere fact we're having the discussion should be so off putting to the point where that utterance is all the correction one needs. i calibrate myself to him, not a switch.

Namaste,

~porcelaine




I'm just speaking from my own experience, Porcelaine. I am also condensing down many years of such experience into a couple of sentences and perhaps, as a result, they come off a bit strong, like a soup left to boil for too long. I am sorry if the smell of that thickening soup offends (smile). But since the words clearly don't apply to you and your experiences, you should probably pay them no heed, no? My hope was not that everyone or even that most people would accept what I wrote as a self-evident truth, but rather that a person facing something like what I have faced will find use in what was said.

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