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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 4:07:03 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

From the beginnings of human thought, people have learned quickest and best from pain.



What we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to avoided and people who give it to others are to be avoided also.

Your assumption that all true slaves, subs et al welcome pain is entirely incorrect. You get off on it. That says nothing about anyone else. Many of us do not have a punishment dynamic because it does not work for us.

Personally it causes me to fear, not love. To avoid, not to want to be with the punisher. It causes resentment and distance, not vulnerability and openness. None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.


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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 5:42:21 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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So, after all that....... "Try to do what your Dom/Master prefers? " (considering that you chose him because you liked his outlook....considering he chose you because he liked yours?)

When you know each other, there's not a lot of need for great and extended deliberation, surely?

Everyone's situation is personal. Nothing that *she does or he does* is going to work with YOUR chap.

Plenty of people are suited for *anticipatory* service, it's their *thing* and if they pair themselves with someone that wants that as well, all that's needed is to have some practise at it and to learn where, what and when.

I'm not interested in it myself and nor is M, but knowing him well enough, I could do it without a great deal of hard work or anguish. (apart from boredom) He could do the same in regards to me. Neither of us would keep it up. We KNOW what makes the other happy, that doesn't mean we ought be doing it.

What we end up doing, SURELY, is what suits us, together......what keeps us all smily, what WORKS?

If I had an over-riding need to do servy-type things and M indulged me, that's exactly what it would be, an indulgence, a kindness. I'm all for that. That's fine. But not if he really can't be fagged!
It'd be boring and tiring on both sides if we both were doing stuff *just to keep the peace*. (we find we do it now and then, and neither of us like it)

We're stuck with being whatever rotten piece of humanity we really are.  He can be as beastly as he likes, I can be the most tricky bit of *butterfly* you ever wanted to own......but as long as we both can look at each other and KNOW what WE are about , there's  nothing to moan, groan or debate about.

agirl















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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 6:40:02 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


I actually think Bita did a far better job of pointing out differences to the "pain" approach than I did. Maybe because she didn't ask any questions, lol.




Thanks dollface.

We are really talking two things different things here. One is the 5 senses. Touch vs ?. I think all of them can be used to teach lessons in their own unique way. Touch rocks, don't get me wrong but so does closing my eyes and just listening to my favorite song. Then there are combinations of senses. Both sight & hearing might be necessary because a particular lesson requires both of those elements to be well-learned.


To add to this, touch doesn't always need to equal pain, either. One of my most powerful lessons involved having my mouth taped shut.  Nothing physically painful about it.  Nothing swift about it, either, lol.  My next most powerful lesson involved reading something, and having to stare for a time and read it repeatedly, to allow the message to penetrate.

quote:


The other thing is we are not talking about *just* learning a lesson but embracing the will of another. The gist I got was that quick and efficient was the aim and it's my personal experience that quick doesn't much factor into embracing the will of another. It's a process.. it's long term and it takes a great amount of determination and dedication to bend someone to your will so that it is truly and deeply felt and embraced as their own.

What I was debating was the concept that quick, efficient, and painful was the only way to achieve true and intensified enslavement.  But in agreement with what you've written here, quick and efficient might immediately correct an action, but embracing his will is indeed a process.  I'm still in that process, actually lol.  Yet not everyone out there has "embrace his will" as a long term goal, and others who do may have different methods to achieve that.  To imply they're doing it wrong warrants questioning, I think.

In any case (and really trying to keep this on topic), learning where my service fits in his world is also a process - when to get up and do versus when to sit myself down and accept that HE is going to do.  And not just accepting it, but feeling just fine about it, too (I still have "but but but.....*I* should be doing that" moments).  To understand *his* bigger picture and embrace it as mine requires two way communication, understanding, digesting, room to ponder, the ability to question, and time for the ideas to ferment within.  I understand now, precisely how he wants his home kept, and I (mostly) agree (I'm still a work in progress) but pain has not been involved in teaching me.  (Although if I keep insisting I take out the garbage instead of him, I think pain will factor in at some point lol). 

quote:


Now, if we are talking brain-washing as opposed to embracing.. that's another story. I'm going to nerd out for just a second here and suggest that Star Trek's "Chain of Command" episode would be an excellent source to see an example of the former and Taming of the Shrew a good example of the latter. I'm down for a session of brain-washing on occasion though, so it's all good. :)


I love your nerdiness lol. 

I'm not sure I'll ever welcome brainwashing again, but you go ahead enjoy that occasional mind bath. You're in good hands for it.

quote:


~hugs for you and Lord Viktor and my respect to Mister! ~

Thanks, my friend. The Mister and I are still waiting for Lord V to learn anticipatory service and bring us our coffee in the morning, but we can't tell if his issue is clearly attitude or the opposable thumb challenge....*laughs*

Hello to Himself, and the entire family.



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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 7:54:01 AM   
agirl


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< Message edited by agirl -- 4/26/2011 7:57:13 AM >

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 10:35:03 AM   
diablarosa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIPWhat we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to avoided and people who give it to others are to be avoided also.

Well that puts most of those who are into SM and "slavery" in an interesting perspective, doesn't it? I think its safe to say most into bdsm, sm, m&s, and d&s are generally a little different where that popular attitude is concerned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Your assumption that all true slaves, subs et al welcome pain is entirely incorrect. You get off on it. That says nothing about anyone else. Many of us do not have a punishment dynamic because it does not work for us.





Because we all know it's all about "getting off" on it right? what a red herring. I'd say pain may not be liked, but the no bullshit correction it offers is, or is at least understood as a necessary evil among many other things in SLAVERY.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.



Sorry, loving and esteeming *each other* doesn't have much to do with slavery at its most core and that's probably where you are going uber wrong. Are you talking about being a subbie?


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 10:54:10 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


Personally it causes me to fear, not love. To avoid, not to want to be with the punisher. It causes resentment and distance, not vulnerability and openness. None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.




On a personal level that's just fine. But not everyone is skinning the same cat....huh?

agirl




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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 11:57:49 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

What I was debating was the concept that quick, efficient, and painful was the only way to achieve true and intensified enslavement.  But in agreement with what you've written here, quick and efficient might immediately correct an action, but embracing his will is indeed a process.  I'm still in that process, actually lol.  Yet not everyone out there has "embrace his will" as a long term goal, and others who do may have different methods to achieve that.  To imply they're doing it wrong warrants questioning, I think.


Yup, I saw your questioning which is what made me jump into the thread myself, actually. The poster described a very narrow scope. Goal - embrace the will; Path - Quck and efficient; Technique - Speech reinforced by (painful) touch. Like you, that way doesn't work well with me nor would that technique work long term unless it was practiced long term which sort of eliminates the whole "quick" part of the argument. Sometimes something couched in a different terms says the same thing but may be understood in those terms if not in others.. often not, but sometimes. In any event, if that way garners the slave one desires, more power to 'em. Your Mister and mine do things in a different way and I have the feeling that both Mister and Himself are pretty damn happy that the way they do things has garned them us and since they both seem to be happyier than pigs in slop, I'd say they were doing what was right for them.. and for us.

quote:

Thanks, my friend. The Mister and I are still waiting for Lord V to learn anticipatory service and bring us our coffee in the morning, but we can't tell if his issue is clearly attitude or the opposable thumb challenge....*laughs*


Just an outside observer here.. but with Lord V - it's attitude, totally. Even if that cool cat did have thumbs, you'd never get coffee. Unless of course, you want to beat the crap out of him. I hear that is both quick and efficient. tic





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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 12:21:45 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

From the beginnings of human thought, people have learned quickest and best from pain.



What we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to avoided and people who give it to others are to be avoided also.

Your assumption that all true slaves, subs et al welcome pain is entirely incorrect. You get off on it. That says nothing about anyone else. Many of us do not have a punishment dynamic because it does not work for us.

Personally it causes me to fear, not love. To avoid, not to want to be with the punisher. It causes resentment and distance, not vulnerability and openness. None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.



The unfortunate part of your reply is that you are using your own experiences and projecting them on everyone else.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 5:52:05 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

From the beginnings of human thought, people have learned quickest and best from pain.



What we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to avoided and people who give it to others are to be avoided also.
  No.  Pain teaches.  Indeed, it's the most effective teacher, simply because most people operate tactically rather than strategically.  They live in the moment instead of thinking about the future.

Pain teaches us to think strategically, simply because the outcome is so undesirable we're forced to do so in order to avoid it.  And in thinking strategically, we begin to grow up.

Indeed, I've come to the conclusion that without pain, human beings do not develop into full personalities.  Children who are disciplined without pain grow up without the knowledge and understanding of how the pain they cause affects others.  Consequently they become insensitive, self-indulgent, sociopathic monsters with no empathy.

quote:

Your assumption that all true slaves, subs et al welcome pain is entirely incorrect. You get off on it. That says nothing about anyone else. Many of us do not have a punishment dynamic because it does not work for us.
  No, they welcome discipline.  And discipline always involves pain - be it physical or emotional - of a sort.  Without consequences, there's no basis for authority.  Even if that discipline is a harsh word and the sure knowledge that your Dom or Master is displeased with you - the result is pain.

quote:

Personally it causes me to fear, not love. To avoid, not to want to be with the punisher. It causes resentment and distance, not vulnerability and openness. None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.
  Pain does not cause fear.  Unpredictability, lack of consistency, weakness, emotional upheaval, temper - any of these combined with pain cause fear.  Someone who loves their sub or slave will discipline her, pull her back into line if and when she needs it.

You also need to bear in mind that not all M/s arrangements involve love.

Conquering pain is a constant in our lives.  Anyone who genuinely works out will tell you that the entire focus in the gym is on achieving your goals through your triumph over pain.  When you're grinding out those last few reps with muscles that are begging for you to stop, it's about fighting the pain.  When you're gritting your teeth as you pound out those last miles on the treadmill, it's about conquering the pain.  If you're in the gym and it's not hurting, you're not working hard enough.  (Those people who read while doing cardio are hysterical.)


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 7:53:19 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

I demand you prove this bald statement.


Since we're merely having a discussion there's little need to resort to demands. And given the nature of this venue it is very unlikely that anyone (present company included) would adhere to any 'demands' rendered.

quote:

I know, we newbies aren't supposed to "research" a place or its occupants prior to or concurrent with posting in it. I mean, that would be expressing intelligent and careful foresight and everybody knows new posters are either total idiots or secret people who are Out To Get You! Only you should be capable of such craftiness, eh Porcelaine?


That premise is utterly ridiculous. And no, i'm certain there are more than a few intelligent people posting.

quote:

The old "I can't think of any possible way to back up my brassy unsubstantiated statements so instead I'll just pretend that it is totally beneath my grand superior self to provide clear evidence for the proof of my arguments" ploy only works in the most naive of circles. Surely you are aware of this? But perhaps you are not, or you would not have offered such overwhelming evidence that you are truly speaking out of your ass (or, to put it less crudely, that you are used to simply declaring something is self-evidently so without ever having to substantiate it with careful argument or, heaven forbid, actual experience or evidence)


Or perhaps it was merely as stated and you're reading far too much. If i intended to have an endless bout of serve and volley you'd know it. As it stands, that really isn't my forte. If i'm going to debate it will be over a subject worth arguing. This is pointless.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 8:02:14 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

You do if they're articulate.  Your ostentatious display of vocabulary is sufficiently impenetrable to make many people wonder what the fuck you're talking about.


It is my understanding that reading is a choice and if someone finds it difficult to decipher my comments they can ignore them or elect to pose a question.

quote:

Your defensive reaction is incongruous, especially in one who does her best to portray herself as self-possessed.  In my own blunt fashion, I've simply concluded that some people take longer than others to get over themselves, although I suppose that's a journey we all make in our own good time.


With all due respect, you're free to surmise whatever strikes your fancy. But you'll pardon my unwillingness to take these things to heart. i rely on feedback from those that are intimately acquainted with me and as you previously noted, "know what the fuck they're talking about."

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 8:04:17 PM   
Aileen1968


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I haven't been following this thread and have no clue how it got on to pain being used as a teaching method or why some are taking opinions of others so personally....
I don't learn from pain. Pain is slowly becoming pleasurable from him.
If he were to use pain to teach me a lesson I would probably be very sad as a result and all of my insecurities would surface.
His words have a much bigger impact on me.

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 8:22:57 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

That could work well for those who actually learn lessons from physical suffering. Not everyone does, slave or not. Some kids actually learn by listening so when the Mom says don't touch the stove, it's hot.. they never touch the stove. They learned by listening.

Then there are those who touch the stove, discovered that it was, indeed, quite hot and never touched the stove again. They learned the lesson as well.

There are also those who saw someone else touch the stove, saw their pain and never touched the stove. They learned by seeing the consequence.

Then you have those who touched the stove, felt it was hot.. then kept touching it. The pain did not teach the lesson.

That's a fail. When all you remember is the punishment and not the reason for it.. that's a fail, too.

The quickest and most efficient way to teach is subjective and would be well-based on how an particular individual learns which may or may not coincide with how someone wants to teach.


Excellent and quoted for truth.

i don't believe sufferance is a necessity for growth or the digestion of experiences and lessons learned. Much of that depends on the individual's makeup, subject matter, the instructor, internal impediments, and their receptivity overall. For some, pain is not the go to for absorption but something that takes place when other methods have fallen short. In my opinion force is not the only option the Keeper has in his tool belt to effect change. There are many instances when the kept is responsive to other stimuli and the Owner finds that preferable.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 8:37:45 PM   
aromanholiday


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

From the beginnings of human thought, people have learned quickest and best from pain.



What we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to avoided and people who give it to others are to be avoided also.



Yes, absolutely. But that proves the point it is a good teacher, doesn't it? Some of us observe how it teaches and understand its necessity for our own situation even if we don't get off on pain. I don't, by the way. While I like being given the opportunity to suffer for someone who enjoys that because to me it's another opportunity to _give to him_, I'm not a masochist--there is no direct pleasure when I am being hurt. Later, when not in pain, I may have a fantasy about it, but in my experience it's pretty easy to have fantasies when you're not experiencing the intensity of the reality. :)

quote:


Your assumption that all true slaves, subs et al welcome pain is entirely incorrect. You get off on it. That says nothing about anyone else.


Well no, not just slaves, but most sensible people who want to grow and discover welcome "learning experiences," and pain is nothing if not that. Most don't welcome pain to the extent that many slaves do, but that's understandable. And Awareness makes a great point further down about the gym. There are perfectly normal non-bdsm, non-submissive non-masochistic people, severely hurting themselves, daily or every other day, for the benefits they feel it brings them (enhanced health, holding back the spectre of age and infirmity, greater strength, and so on). That's the way I feel about pain as an aspiring slave. I just don't feel I need to always inflict it on myself (although I most certainly do, at least in my home gym/torture chamber--and for all the same reasons those other "normal" people do it. :) )

quote:


Many of us do not have a punishment dynamic because it does not work for us.


I do understand that and I respect it when I hear you saying this more than when I hear some others say it because you have not, at least not since I have been been reading you, claimed to be enslaved. I think you are very direct and honest about who you are and what works for you. You are pretty much "WYSIWYG."

quote:


Personally it causes me to fear, not love. To avoid, not to want to be with the punisher. It causes resentment and distance, not vulnerability and openness. None of which are desirable in a relationship where people presumable love and esteem each other.


I've read some of the things you've said about your relationship, and while I don't always agree with your conclusions about others, I think that you have found a really wonderful person for yourself who meets your needs. That's exactly what I aspire to as well.

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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 8:57:11 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

To add to this, touch doesn't always need to equal pain, either.


Exactly. Sometimes the omission of pain can be much more challenging to digest than its alternative. Especially when it penetrates the mental and emotional layers. There's a certain swiftness involved whereas the others may require the person to deal with it the aftermath much longer.

quote:

What I was debating was the concept that quick, efficient, and painful was the only way to achieve true and intensified enslavement.  But in agreement with what you've written here, quick and efficient might immediately correct an action, but embracing his will is indeed a process.  I'm still in that process, actually lol.  Yet not everyone out there has "embrace his will" as a long term goal, and others who do may have different methods to achieve that.  To imply they're doing it wrong warrants questioning, I think.


As we've previously discussed my prior owner was big on breaking. However, pain was not his catalyst, at least not the physical sort. He assaulted my mind and understood that would render a greater result than striking me. Although he employed many methods, his approach was based on what was most effective rather than convenient. In terms of Will, i think there's a wide landscape on what that entails and there may be varying bits of flexibility in some relationships that won't exist in others. From my perspective, His Will reflects the desires He impresses. They're not workarounds or deviations i've conjured to adhere according to my preferences. Aligning with Him is something i want to do.

i realize some partnerships involve a degree of push and pull that works well for the parties involved. But the constant back and forth and seeming resistance is much too taxing on my mind. i have a definite need to obey and that doesn't suggest compliance, but literally doing what He wants in the manner prescribed. my enslavement unfolds with the Grain rather than flowing against it. The latter is in opposition to what both seek. It's the willing subjugation at its basest level - because He said - without the necessity of prompting or prodding that reveals where i am in the process. i view enslavement as a continual process. Time and deepened intimacy reveal new areas of surrender that can (or should for some) be given to Him.

quote:

And not just accepting it, but feeling just fine about it, too (I still have "but but but.....*I* should be doing that" moments).  To understand *his* bigger picture and embrace it as mine requires two way communication, understanding, digesting, room to ponder, the ability to question, and time for the ideas to ferment within.


i think that's a key point of embracing His Will. Not merely uttering the words but following through with the right attitude and spirit. This is one of the reasons i draw a distinction between obedience and compliance. i'm not interested in "getting it done" but accomplishing what's expected in the appropriate head space.

quote:

I'm not sure I'll ever welcome brainwashing again, but you go ahead enjoy that occasional mind bath.


*inserts a rebuttal* Sorry, you don't get to keep that one missy!

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 9:38:27 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
It is my understanding that reading is a choice and if someone finds it difficult to decipher my comments they can ignore them or elect to pose a question.
  Yes, reading is a choice, but communication is an art form.  We'd all do well to remember that.

quote:

With all due respect, you're free to surmise whatever strikes your fancy. But you'll pardon my unwillingness to take these things to heart. i rely on feedback from those that are intimately acquainted with me and as you previously noted, "know what the fuck they're talking about."
  I can understand the desire to gaze into the mirror of acquaintance in order to apprehend that pleasing image of yourself which is reflected back at you, but I'm afraid I cannot respect it.  Such exercises rarely produce insight.


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 10:04:28 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Just an outside observer here.. but with Lord V - it's attitude, totally. Even if that cool cat did have thumbs, you'd never get coffee. Unless of course, you want to beat the crap out of him. I hear that is both quick and efficient. tic






LMAO!!  You're absolutely right - it's complete attitude with him.  He will never embrace my will.  But he does snuggle up awfully well. 


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 10:36:53 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

*inserts a rebuttal* Sorry, you don't get to keep that one missy!



Wait - what? 


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RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 11:13:11 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

From the beginnings of human thought, people have learned quickest and best from pain.



What we have mainly learned from the beginnings of human thought is that pain is to be avoided.



There is some truth in both comments.

Some of the earliest philosophical documents - e.g. the Greek philosopher, Epicurus 300 BC - talk of pleasure being the greatest good, and to be achieved through avoiding pain; where it concerns the mind, freedom from fear and anxiety are the way forward. This is a common theme throughout inquiry into the factors that activate human beings - Spinoza, Nietzsche etc.

I like this way at looking at human experience, all very positive and beckoning people to rise above human restrictions (assuming you see pain/fear/anxiety as a restriction).

There are three problems with this, though:

1) Some pleasure will inevitably bring pain.

2) It has been recognised for centuries that fear is an activating factor with human beings.

3) In terms of experience, I would challenge anyone walking on this planet to delve into his/her past: are you sure you haven't learned a very important lesson through the medium of pain?

I do tend to agree with you, DesFIP, to a large extent, in that it would be counter productive to use pain as a motivating tool on a constant basis, or perhaps this is just me and it goes against the grain of my principles. But, and it's a big but, in the event a serious transgression has occurred and you want a quick, harsh lesson to be learned - then pain is your friend.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Personal Service Cluttering Your life? - 4/26/2011 11:46:59 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		DesFIP, I'll give you an example from my life for clarity's sake.

On qualifiying as an accountant, I was fortunate enough to win a few quick promotions.

At that time my working style was this: always courteous but I had absolutely no interest in building relationships with people at work. To me, my social life and working life were two seperate elements of my life - I didn't need, nor want, friends at work.

I went to work for a Managing Director and his number 2. Both of them were committed christians, both had been round the block and knew all the tricks of the trade, both were massive fans of developing people, and both were well versed in doing what it takes to help people learn a lesson.

They quickly saw in me someone who would walk over broken glass to get a job done, but someone who was ultimately flawed in that I thought I could stand by my principles and everyone would just fall into line with me - i.e. my stubborn principle of work is for work, not for relationships.

So, in a subtle way they tried to reason it out with me - i.e. you'll get eaten alive by politics and the game players, and you need people on your side in order to convince people and make the changes that are needed. With me being a stubborn kind, I stood by my principle that I could get the job done through hard work alone, and there's nothing in the contract around relationship building (a very silly stance looking back when you consider that this job was performance management, which included spending a lot of time dealing with non accountants - and we're not exactly everyone's cup of tea at the best of times!, although I was young).

"Ok then, we'll do it the hard way, you don't think you need people on side? we'll stand back and let you get on with it" was their mantra.

I soon gathered that the organisation was full to the brim of politicians and some people wanting an easy life rather than work to make the changes that would make the organisation successful.

Looking back, over a 6 month period, I was up against about 20 people in the same small office as me, who went out of their way to make my life extremely difficult and force me out as I was attempting to change their comfortable, lax existence. The MD arranged it so that my equivalent in financial accounts, also a committed christian, gave me short shrift (another person trying to help me through a harsh lesson). So, now I was in a position where I was being intimidated on a daily basis, which included being ignored, being what must people would call bullied, having my character stripped bear, being ridiculed; and there was nothing I could do about it. And I was on my own - the MD and number 2 took no action behind the scenes until the lesson had been learned.

That was a very painful experience, but a lesson I needed to learn - the lesson being don't underestimate how much you rely on people in your working life and that you may be in work but you're not a machine - you need to indulge yourself in your human social needs for the benefit of your own soul. It's one I haven't forgotten, didn't make the same mistake again, and has been of enormous use to me.

Everyone will have a mental block at some point - and that is where learning through experience, the experience of pain, can come in very handy.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 4/26/2011 11:56:48 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 100
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