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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 2:05:59 PM   
NorthernGent


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Again, apologies for the delay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

i consider communication in this realm as a preliminary step and one i utilize when making an assessment.



I'd agree: preliminary step when making an assessment. Although I'd add that written communication is a useful appraisal tool during the relationship, which I'm not suggesting is something you excluded as a possibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

Denial and patience are areas where i excel. It isn't difficult and that's why planes and telephones exist.



It's an accomodating appoach: suffering for the greater good. Alexander Bell contrived to invent a contraption with the express purpose of nurturing a simple, pious approach to sexual gratification - the means to a far more expressive end.

I think so. You're having a conversation, you like him/her, you've been speaking for a while, well, what's a few hundred quid to fork out in the grand scheme of things in order to get on the plane and see what happens?

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

While i appreciate the human essence when encountered, i'm unable to make the same association with an individual i've never met in person. Chemistry and other important elements must be solidified and allowing myself to 'connect' so to speak with the individual on the screen without those realistic engagements is foolhardy. Nor are these things hammered out in one meeting. It is my preference to proceed at a pace that leaves little question about the feasibility of undertaking ownership. i must have a clear idea who i'm interacting with before an agreement can be made.



It's a big commitment, one demanding a considered decision.

Furthermore, in the event you're considering leaving a few things behind, thinking of your plane comment here, then a wise person would think well of it. I'm all for intuition, although it doesn't necessarily compromise planning when and where a big decision is in the offing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

The comment reflects the fact that no matter how compatible or likable the individual appears from afar, there's no guarantee that will transfer over when meeting in person. There's always the probability that it will not.



There are no guarantees in this life, in any given situation, so I fully understand and agree with you. I'd go with possibility rather than probability, perhaps an indication of my planning and judgement skills.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

i don't have the frantic angst some possess about being unattached. i believe things happen in their rightful time and i try to make use of this season in my life in a positive fashion.



NV offered something similar, interesting comments, almost religious in nature. I would disagree with both of you. I think you have to grab the bull by the horns, have to make things happen. I don't exercise a somewhat stoic approach to these matters with a seasoning of 'all good things come to those who wait'. I do it because of principle; to me it is a romantic assertion of what I am to stay focused on the 5% who will, inevitably, expect more from me in time, effort and qualities and, likewise, I would expect similar from them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

No, it is something i became aware of several years ago. i've known for some time that i required a needle and that reality is reflected in my countenance and selectivity. i haven't rested on my laurels in the space between and that merely widens the gap. But in a roundabout way this makes the process far easier. We recognize that which we possess without great effort. It isn't a matter of seeking him. His essence would be hard to miss.

Namaste,

~porcelaine



I like your version of romanticism in this: inner emotions as opposed to outward displays of affection.

You must be able to reconcile your need to move from written communication to face-to-face contact, with 'his essence being hard to miss'?

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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 6:16:07 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Again, apologies for the delay.


Greetings NorthernGent,

There's no need to apologize. Nonetheless i appreciate your courtesy. :)

quote:

I'd agree: preliminary step when making an assessment. Although I'd add that written communication is a useful appraisal tool during the relationship, which I'm not suggesting is something you excluded as a possibility.


i try not to make comparisons when i'm becoming acquainted with someone. However, it is true that there have been instances when what's articulated in the written form has piqued my interest to the point where our communication increases and bonds are formed in time. i don't believe these situations are representative of most of my dialogues. But in retrospect i can't make a blanket statement and say never either.

quote:

I think so. You're having a conversation, you like him/her, you've been speaking for a while, well, what's a few hundred quid to fork out in the grand scheme of things in order to get on the plane and see what happens?


i've been involved in long distance relationships in the past that did lead to a permanent solution in time. However, i'm of the belief that one must be willing to make the mental and emotional adjustments that these situations require. And with that some financial sacrifices (if needed) to permit frequent visits. It isn't a question of if, but when where i'm concerned. Also, there's a giant dose of realism involved that puts forth the idea of who's relocating. Otherwise one is no better than the proverbial bird and fish that fall in love but have nowhere to nest. i take these things into consideration in the early stages.

quote:

It's a big commitment, one demanding a considered decision.

Furthermore, in the event you're considering leaving a few things behind, thinking of your plane comment here, then a wise person would think well of it. I'm all for intuition, although it doesn't necessarily compromise planning when and where a big decision is in the offing.


Ideally both parties have been making preparations to permit the realization of the relationship each aspire to have. i've done this and the only impediment (if one wishes to call it that) is having a suitable complement. Being in a state of readiness alleviates some concerns along with the conscious ramifications of what must be surrendered to facilitate the union. As with most things it is a matter of ones priorities and the degree of importance the other person has inspired in his beholder. Bringing these matters to fruition is less daunting when you're well seasoned and have notable experiences to draw from.

quote:

There are no guarantees in this life, in any given situation, so I fully understand and agree with you. I'd go with possibility rather than probability, perhaps an indication of my planning and judgement skills.


Okay, you've got me there. Possibility is definitely a more appropriate descriptor. And given my tastes i'd surmise it is probable things will go well.

quote:

NV offered something similar, interesting comments, almost religious in nature. I would disagree with both of you. I think you have to grab the bull by the horns, have to make things happen. I don't exercise a somewhat stoic approach to these matters with a seasoning of 'all good things come to those who wait'. I do it because of principle; to me it is a romantic assertion of what I am to stay focused on the 5% who will, inevitably, expect more from me in time, effort and qualities and, likewise, I would expect similar from them.


What i'm addressing in my remarks is the emotional lull that waxes between upset, impatience, and in some instances outright panic that the individual will never encounter 'the one' they desire to serve. i'm admittedly laissez-faire and don't intentionally seek the company of the opposite sex or comb through profiles looking for the diamond in the haystack. my methodology is far different. For me, it isn't the belief that good things arrive due to patience, but the understanding that most persons are unsuitable for my constitution. It isn't the fact that i have not happened upon an individual that showed promise, but an honest reflection of their inability to meet me where i am and bring me to a greater state.

If the most profound depth the other party can provide is the cultivation of parlor-like sexual tricks or a new fangled cleaning regime, our paths will never join. i offer dimension and need the same. But more than this, it is not in my usual disposition to hunt the opposite sex without cause. i may recognize his potential but i'll never give chase. Presentation is my statement. What he does with it is his to decide.

quote:

I like your version of romanticism in this: inner emotions as opposed to outward displays of affection.

You must be able to reconcile your need to move from written communication to face-to-face contact, with 'his essence being hard to miss'?


Thank you for the compliment. my controlled nature is very misleading. But in my mind passion is a sort of intimation that i don't share with the masses. It is intentionally bestowed upon the audience most deserving of its fruits. As for the man that compels my hand and the essence he emits, there's nothing to reconcile. His desire to possess emboldens his response and ignites my acquiesce. The two move in tandem with an inevitable collision that brings me to my knees. Resistance is futile. The strength of his person and mastery overpower me. There is but one response. Yes.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 7:19:45 PM   
aromanholiday


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me.

Yes, although a shame I can't tell cue from queue. More haste, less speed.

Why would I jeopardize a possibly spectacular thing just to get some slight satisfactions from flirting or comparison shopping

Perfect.

Worship of him, not of me, is the whole point...isn't it?

A woman could worship me in her mind, although it's not something I seek, providing it doesn't jeopardise her capacity to have a discussion with me from a point of equals, with the confidence to tell it how she sees it. I can't learn from her in the areas in which I have an interest? No use to me, then. I dont, however, see the two as mutually exclusive; nor do I take any satisfaction from being 'worshipped'.


Eh, death by typos will get us all in the end. I am convinced of that.

I agree, that mental worship and direct, honest communication aren't mutually exclusive, or at least they don't have to be. I see worship as a rather extreme form of admiration, but I know plenty of people (I am myself one) who do not like having either emotion directed at them. I think what you're saying, though, is that you are indifferent to it?

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 9:15:57 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Apologies for the delay. I looked in, but didn't have the time to put something together.


No worries at all.  Life takes priority over online discussion. 

quote:


I should clarify the following: my reality has no bearing on what I think anyone else should do; people should follow their nose.


I'm in agreement with you there.

quote:



We're like minded, then. I have strong opinions, but they're open to revision. Weird turn? I think I've read a few of your posts and know some of the details. I think it holds true that when you've experienced extremes and come out the other end, life can seem a doddle.


The joy is in coming out the other end a better, healthier and happier person.  This takes effort, of course, but is worth all of it.  As for weird turns, well, I'll chalk it up to being an adventurous sort. 

Taken from your post to porcelaine:

quote:


NV offered something similar, interesting comments, almost religious in nature. I would disagree with both of you. I think you have to grab the bull by the horns, have to make things happen. I don't exercise a somewhat stoic approach to these matters with a seasoning of 'all good things come to those who wait'. I do it because of principle; to me it is a romantic assertion of what I am to stay focused on the 5% who will, inevitably, expect more from me in time, effort and qualities and, likewise, I would expect similar from them.


This bears clarifying.  There is very little that's stoic about me, lol.  Where I was coming from is that I changed my approach to life in that I decided to live my life being open to the possibility of goodness.  This change in mindset brought some amazing things my way, which I was able to see and grab hold of when opportunity struck.  Regarding relationships, though, I was pretty darn pleased with life the way it was, and didn't have an inner drive to look for or pursue a relationship.  It wasn't that I was waiting for good things; it was that I was already having a pretty awesome time unattached.

It just so happened that when he who owns me came along, I really wasn't all that interested in being in a relationship.  My thought at the time was to the effect of "My life is pretty damn good right now, so it's going to take someone pretty spectacular to add to the goodness I already have!"

But I was open to it.  And he was (is) pretty spectacular.

What he saw in return was someone who was "bubbly" (as he put it), and who was more than happy to get to know him and let him get to know her.  There wasn't any "push/pull" going on, just dialogue that began and continued very easily between us.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 10:01:43 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

This bears clarifying.  There is very little that's stoic about me, lol.  Where I was coming from is that I changed my approach to life in that I decided to live my life being open to the possibility of goodnessThis change in mindset brought some amazing things my way, which I was able to see and grab hold of when opportunity struck.  Regarding relationships, though, I was pretty darn pleased with life the way it was, and didn't have an inner drive to look for or pursue a relationship.  It wasn't that I was waiting for good things; it was that I was already having a pretty awesome time unattached.

It just so happened that when he who owns me came along, I really wasn't all that interested in being in a relationship.  My thought at the time was to the effect of "My life is pretty damn good right now, so it's going to take someone pretty spectacular to add to the goodness I already have!"


NuevaVida,

i'm really glad you addressed this and i'd hoped you'd expound on your philosophy regarding possibilities. Having echoed the same yesterday it is always a joy to see the merits of positive thinking openly articulated. You're living proof of the goodness that spills forth when expectancy replaces negativity. It's been a joy to witness.



Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 10:13:58 PM   
NuevaVida


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Thank you, porcelaine.  I have learned that thoughts create reality.  Expecting negativity tends to bring negativity. Being open to possibilities (make that GOOD possibilities) opens you to that.

When it came to "dating" (something I actually have little experience with), my best compass was listening to myself, listening to him, and not what-iffing things to death.  In all he said and did, he was simply showing me who he was, however I may have felt about it (good or bad).  I could then weigh that against what felt good to me (internally) and what did not, and go from there.  I wasn't looking for things right or wrong with him.  I simply watched, participated, and paid attention to my gut reaction and inner signals.   Exclusivity came when I was confident in my comfort level with who he was (is).  I suppose that's why I was making the earlier point of not becoming exclusive with someone until it felt right.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 11:02:30 PM   
Ariane23


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Ariane, I have never felt it necessary to go out every night in a week.



Neither do I. But I've accepted a date to have lunch with someone next week. I have no intention on deciding 'he's the one' or not that day. I'll see him again if we get on. Meanwhile my dog boy comes round this weekend and I've got some interest in a couple of other people I may meet in the near future. I won't make an exclusive commitment to any of them until I decide that one of them is 'the one' for me. It may not happen with any of the current possibilities.

The point is, I will get to know them if I like them initially. Being fit and having some things in common is not sufficient to make a commitment. A real connection grows over time, and the dog boy is nearly 30 years younger than me, we both know it's not happily ever after.

I don't go out a lot. But it's a start to getting to know someone.

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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 11:08:05 PM   
Ariane23


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply...

I honestly believe it is just a case of personal choice. Myself, I am not a casual dater per se. If I have lunch with someone, coffee......I don't really see that as 'dating'.

Dating in the context of having sex with someone I am not extremely interested in.........that's just not my cuppa. For some it's totally within their comfort zone.



Maybe communication is getting lost across generations. Dating was once upon a time a method for getting to know someone. You didn't assume sex, certainly not on a first few dates. A lunch date IS a date.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/20/2011 11:19:52 PM   
sunshinemiss


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That's exactly how I see it! Does that make me old-fashioned?

quote:

Maybe communication is getting lost across generations. Dating was once upon a time a method for getting to know someone. You didn't assume sex, certainly not on a first few dates. A lunch date IS a date.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 12:03:06 AM   
Ariane23


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

That's exactly how I see it! Does that make me old-fashioned?



I don't think so. The dating = go out and fuck someone randomly interpretation is still a fairly limited demographic.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 12:46:52 AM   
sunshinemiss


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I wonder... this is really a curiosity that is popping into my head.

I wonder if city versus country/small town makes a difference. I know that when I was coming up, we knew everybody in our town. People were all going out together, it wasn't such a big deal to date and move on and then date and go back and forth. There wasn't the stigma of NOT dating either. People just ... hung out together. Sometimes we may have kissed or necked... but it wasn't a big deal. It wasn't until much later that people got "involved" and exlusive. Maybe knowing them from when they were picking boogers or still laughing at bodily function jokes may have made them more real or something? It may have taken more to get the visual out of our heads of them and their buddies having a farting contest in the hallway.

And then I moved to a big city and dating became this "thing" and flirting was serious! I remember a huge culture shock in that. I flirted as a form of talking. And people didn't understand me. They thought I was serious. It was just the way we talked back home! A friend of mine went to visit home with me one year and was taken aback when a big ole hairy big bellied sweaty fellow came up to us at the gas station and said, "what can i do for you two lovely ladies?" And I just said, "fill it up, please." My friend said, "Why is he hitting on us?" He wasn't. He was just ... talking. It sure is nicer to here what he said than "What do you want" or even "How can I help you?" It's kind of nice to be flirted with even if it doesn't really mean much. Anyway, it was like a battle and strategies and analysis of the other side and such. Very odd to me.

Just a bit of pondering...
sunshine


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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 7:04:10 AM   
littlewonder


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I admit for me the general flirting always confuses me. Where I grew up if you were flirting with someone then that meant you were interested in dating them. I see people all day long who flirt with everyone and people who flirt with me and it confuses me. I don't know if they're actually interested or just doing it because they do it with everyone. How does one know the difference until they actually ask you out?

Not that I'm looking or anything...it's just confusing to me. There have been times when I thought they were interested in me and then when I've told them I was seeing someone they thought I was rude for saying that because they were just being flirty with me and had no interest at all in me. For me it just causes tension.




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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 7:14:55 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ariane23

I have no intention on deciding 'he's the one' or not that day. I'll see him again if we get on.



The difference between us is that if we don't get on at a high enough level when we meet, I won't go out. I need to click immediately because when that isn't there, then it never grows. This is me, I know other people where chemistry does blossom later. But it doesn't for me.

And since having the possibility of happily ever after is important to me, I wouldn't date someone where that possibility doesn't exist.


< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/21/2011 7:17:39 AM >


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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 7:49:57 AM   
sexyred1


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It was intriguing to read all the various replies to this thread.

To reply to the original question of when is it right to discuss exclusivity, I say it happens when you both feel it. That can happen at various times in the getting to know someone process.

I don't believe in having high expectations when meeting someone new; it could turn into a guy friend, or a contact, or a boyfriend. If I was super attracted to someone who I did not think would be good boyfriend material, it used to turn into a casual thing sometimes, but I no longer have interest in anything casual on sexual level. I prefer to wait till I feel something more.

While I believe in honesty and communication, I never discuss other men with new men I date and I am totally turned off if they discuss other women. Why? Not because I am so naive to think I am the only one someone is dating or vice versa, but simply because I feel it is disrespectful to the other person to not be spending that time concentrating on each other.

If you bring up other women on my first date with you, I will never see you again. Sorry. I have been on first dates where the man was dissing his ex, or complaining about other dates, etc. and when they asked me out again I said, no, and when asked why, I tell them. You ruined your chance with me by discussing other women negatively instead of utilizing your time wisely and concentrating on getting to know me. The stupid men were flabbergasted by that; the smarter men apologized but it was too late. I believe that meeting people online has made this process harder because people get very frustrated dating online and they let that frustration override the courtesy they should be showing on a date.

Whenever I have become exclusive in every relationship that was exclusive, it happened within 3 dates for some reason. We just knew we were together and those relationships lasted years, one marriage and the others years long.

I have no clue why 3 dates was the magic number, but I do know that neither of us mentioned anyone else (even though I was dating when I met all my eventually exclusive guys). You just know that you feel no inclination to be with someone else and when that is mutual, then you are exclusive.

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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 8:41:01 AM   
LaTigresse


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Interesting. Now you've got me thinking.....scary I know.

The word 'date' to me, has seriously romantic connotations for the most part. If I seriously say I have a date, regardless of what or time of day, I think of that person as a potential....something more than friend. I think... And I often assume, perhaps wrongly, that there MIGHT be some expectation other than.....just enjoying one anothers company.

Usually, if I am just having lunch or coffee with someone, a friend or casual acquaintance ......I don't think of it as a 'date'.

It's really all sort of mish mashed in my own head....... probably not making any sense at all.

As for flirting.........pfffffttttttttt, that's nothing. I don't take flirting seriously either giving or receiving. It's fun, and it's just there.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 9:17:33 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The word 'date' to me, has seriously romantic connotations for the most part.


As this thread has shown there's a lot of supposition that takes place. The easiest way to remedy it is to broach the subject with the other person to gauge how they feel. In my opinion it's pretty foolish to assume that someone shares a like mind on a topic that's never been raised.

i don't meet men for coffee or other quickies either. If the individual wishes to spend time with me we engage in activities that allow this to occur. As for dating in general, it is an extension of the assessment but never a precursor. i've already determined on some level that i enjoy his company and i'm merely filling in the blanks at this point.

In terms of flirting, it isn't something i demonstrate by default. There are instances when i'll do it in a playful yet harmless fashion. When i'm more coquettish or pointed in my assertions that is usually indicative of my interest. However, the men i find most engaging (meaning hard to resist) are those i never flirt with. They trip a different switch and i'm generally more subservient in their presence. There's usually a modicum of swooning as well.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 3:08:15 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Interesting. Now you've got me thinking.....scary I know.

The word 'date' to me, has seriously romantic connotations for the most part. If I seriously say I have a date, regardless of what or time of day, I think of that person as a potential....something more than friend. I think... And I often assume, perhaps wrongly, that there MIGHT be some expectation other than.....just enjoying one anothers company.

Usually, if I am just having lunch or coffee with someone, a friend or casual acquaintance ......I don't think of it as a 'date'.

It's really all sort of mish mashed in my own head....... probably not making any sense at all.

As for flirting.........pfffffttttttttt, that's nothing. I don't take flirting seriously either giving or receiving. It's fun, and it's just there.



Rather the same here.

Either I'm *going out* with someone (potential) .....or I'm spending time with someone. *Going out* with someone is a good waddle after *spending time with someone*. And spending time with someone isn't a *date*.

Flirting is a passtime in the UK, it makes people smile and feel good, it's a mild form of flattery and flannel that few people take offence at. As you said....it's fun and it's there.

agirl


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RE: exclusivity - 4/21/2011 5:26:14 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I wonder if city versus country/small town makes a difference. I know that when I was coming up, we knew everybody in our town. People were all going out together, it wasn't such a big deal to date and move on and then date and go back and forth.
And then I moved to a big city and dating became this "thing" and flirting was serious!


That's a very interesting point. I grew up in NYC and a guy flirting with you was hitting on you.

However I think it comes down more to personality. My youngest is just 18 and has had three girlfriends in all these years, all serious at the time. Between those I think he's had only two casual dates. He gets to know girls in a nondating way, and only starts dating them when it gets serious. And this is a small town.

I also remember a friend of my oldest who had dated every boy in her grade before middle school had finished. She would have three dates in a day.

So I'm more inclined to put it down to personality.


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RE: exclusivity - 4/22/2011 1:06:14 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

Eh, death by typos will get us all in the end. I am convinced of that.



I make it my business to dismantle absolutes, although the idea that being alive is useful, is one absolute that I'm prepared to leave in place! Staying alive has its merits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

I think what you're saying, though, is that you are indifferent to it?



Yeah, pretty much. I'm a simple person really and fond of the every day world.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to aromanholiday)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: exclusivity - 4/22/2011 1:34:17 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The joy is in coming out the other end a better, healthier and happier person.  This takes effort, of course, but is worth all of it.  As for weird turns, well, I'll chalk it up to being an adventurous sort. 



Can't win 'em all, and there are definitely people out there who have taken worse turns than yours :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

This bears clarifying.  There is very little that's stoic about me, lol.  Where I was coming from is that I changed my approach to life in that I decided to live my life being open to the possibility of goodness.  This change in mindset brought some amazing things my way, which I was able to see and grab hold of when opportunity struck.  Regarding relationships, though, I was pretty darn pleased with life the way it was, and didn't have an inner drive to look for or pursue a relationship.  It wasn't that I was waiting for good things; it was that I was already having a pretty awesome time unattached.



The Stoic reference wasn't intended to be a claim of remaining indifferent to pain and pleasure (I doubt there are many running round here with that attitude!), more one of their belief that happiness came from knowing the right thing to do in any given circumstance, and chasing after success was an irrelevance to them (this was really my point when I mentioned grabbing the bull by the horns).

I see your point, though, and I've certainly been in a situation where I've not been actively seeking but a chance encounter has led to me 'grabbing the bull by the horns' so to speak. Plus, circumstances can change things: work can get in the way for one. I've always felt the need to have a well-established career before setting up home with someone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

There wasn't any "push/pull" going on, just dialogue that began and continued very easily between us.



Yeah, sounds wise to me. No real pressure, just see what happens.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 100
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