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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 4:58:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

You are wrong about Clinton but, that is a subject for another thread somewhere.



One that has been done to death already...but Im not wrong. His only saving grace was his tax reductions.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/12/2011 4:59:09 PM >

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:02:46 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Bush was horrid on domestic policy,


And how was he on his international policy? He started unnecessary wars, ran up the deficit for them, and then we had to wait for Obama to get bin Laden in the end because it wasn't a priority for Bush

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:05:07 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

he corporation is the producer and the worker and the rest of society are consumers, hopefully, of that product.  Neither can exist without the other.

You do know that human beings have been around a lot longer than corporations.... just in case you didn't know I thought I would let you in on the order of things

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:11:25 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

he corporation is the producer and the worker and the rest of society are consumers, hopefully, of that product.  Neither can exist without the other.

You do know that human beings have been around a lot longer than corporations.... just in case you didn't know I thought I would let you in on the order of things


Oh...geez.  Golly, thanks for the update.  Here is a little insight for you.  Corporations are individuals under the law of the United States and most other nations.  As I tell young people, "Each one of you is a corporation.  You are Pres.Jane Doe of Jane Doe incorporated.  So act presidential because no one is going to take care of your business better than you."  So the guy that sells the tomatoes is his own corporation.  Right????  He maximizes profits by growing as many tomatoes as he can.  Correct?

Let's look at Lucylastic.  She makes sex toys, right?  She maximizes profits by making the best sex toys she can make as quickly as she can make them and then markets them in the most effective and inexpensive way possible.  Would anyone say that Lucy should employ people that she doesn't need?  No.  Would anyone suggest that Lucy should take a cut in the salary she pays herself and thereby reduce her standard of living in order to pay someone who is less fortunate?  No.  We encourage Lucy to make the best of what she makes and to come up with ever more efficient means of reducing her costs and maximizing her profits.  Why wouldn't we recommend that for every individual, incorporated or not????????????

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 5/12/2011 5:12:16 PM >

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:13:41 PM   
lockedaway


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Status: offline 		$578.00 per week...for 99 weeks.

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:18:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The capitalist system isn't the only system, nor is it necessarily the best.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:19:32 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Well, last year just about every GOP running for office ran on creating jobs.  So far all they have done is fight for tax breaks for the wealth.....and lying about the job Obama is doing.

Case in point...Obama has created more jobs in this country in his short time in office than Bush did in 8.   Facts  is facts....


Hey what happened to my chart?????   Well here is a link...

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/07/obama-more-jobs-bush/

Now try to understand the reasons and come back in a year or so when you do.

Well we know we aren't 'learning' anything from you. I am thinking you'd tell us right here but you do not.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 5:59:34 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

YES!!! Glad you asked. :)  Reduce corporate income taxes to the same level as Canada.  We tax our corporations 35.9% to Canada's 16%.  On top of our federal corporate taxes, corporations pay very hefty real estate taxes and state income taxes as well.  We have created an enromous disincentive to do business in this country.  After reducing corporate tax rates, we increase tariffs on Chinese products.  For every U.S. company that has relocated a certain percentage of its workforce overseas, the same tariff applies to them.  Our government provides no funding to nations that have an adersarial stance to the U.S.  [Do you realize we provided hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars to the U.S.S.R. throughout the cold war?  Nope...all of that should be done.  I sound a bit isolationist but would you give $100.00 to your enemy?]  For every "police action" this country engages in, the country should be paid back either in currency or natural resources.  The greatest threat to jobs in this country is the over spending of the Federal Government that causes it to endlessly siphon working capital out of the U.S. economy.

What world are you watching ? This is nonsensical rant. The taxes you speak of are rates not receipts. If our corporate tax rate is so high, why are foreign corps moving here ? The US corp. in total pays an effective rate of 25-27%. So we too should be extorted by the corp. to tax production (labor) rather than consumptions. (revenues)

Those tariffs were few and far between and were never attached to American products, the production of which was exported to China. In any case they are all but gone now except on Chinese tires for obvious trade violations. The resat were only on steel and lumber put on by Bush or are in so-called free-trade agreements are put in by the capitalist/corp. to protect the profits of American companies from foreign competition...ethanol being the single most egregious.

We did not provide Billions to the USSR. Instead during the Nixon admin's so-called 'detente,' we gave them IC technology. That conveniently allowed them to 'MIRV' (install Multiple, Independently targeted, Re-entry Vehicles) their missiles and that we'd just have to spend another trillion (very profitable) tax dollars combating those missiles which also became mobile. Otherwise what we did was sell them cheap grain so their people wouldn't starve and oh BTW...end a very profitable cold war.

The greatest threat to American jobs is a huge, powerful, rich, capitalist fascist regime like the Chinese and even some not so big ones with a cheaper impoverished fascist regime like Vietnam.

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 6:16:38 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

A witless post!  Business is business and charity/philanthropy is charity/philanthropy.  If people are broke, it is hard to be charitable.  If a business is not making money, it is difficult to employ people or make charitable contributions.  This is the real world.


A witless response. The welfare state crowds out charity/philanthropy and is a large part of the reason for the massive un/underemployment that has so many people broke. That is the real world, if one takes off their blue blinders. (And since your other post was pretty much right on, Im surprised you blew this one..unless the quotes are off!)
(modedit for excessive quotes - Mod21)

One repetitious problem...the only welfare state in the US...is the corporate welfare state. I wrote a blog, nobody can site anything that resembles a so-called 'welfare state' in America...for the people at large.

Taking my tax money to pay the debt service that govt. spend trillion$ on war ALL borrowed is a welfare state for the war machine. Taking my money again to pay for a medicare drug also ALL borrowed is welfare and first a retail price windfall profit and welfare state for the drug industry much more than for the elderly that already had prescription drug help via private health insurance.

Yes we have a welfare state for banks, farmers, and ethanol producers. We had as welfare state for mortgage sellers but they were allowed to gamble, got bonuses and we (taxpayers) got screwed in the financial ass.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/12/2011 6:29:01 PM >

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 6:20:01 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so all these 43 million on food stamps have to live with cuts to their stamps, their cut  healthcare rights and rising prices until the recovery starts?


With a drastically reduced corporate tax rate and the EPA stripped of powers it was never actually intended to have, recovery would be virtually immediate. We wouldnt need the endless extensions of unemployment benefits.

so basically , yes they have to suffer the cuts and .."would" "could"& "should" doesnt help them one tiny little bit does it.




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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 6:27:25 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A witless response. The welfare state crowds out charity/philanthropy and is a large part of the reason for the massive un/underemployment that has so many people broke. That is the real world, if one takes off their blue blinders.


A terribly witless response.  Where do you think the welfare state came from?  It came from Lyndon Baines Johnson's War on Poverty.  There was no money stay-at-home-drinking-Colt45-on the porch welfare before Johnson.  Johnson, a liberal democrat, embarked on his war on poverty to do ONE thing; create a voting base.  And what did Johnson say about his new welfar program????  "I'll have them n**gers voting democratic for the next 200 years!"  Google it.

If we had lower taxes, we would have more manufacturing, more business.  The more friendly you are to business, the more business you are going to have.  It is such a simple concept but, of course, some people find it entierly elusive.
(modedit for excessive quotes)

Yes, but since all ended by Clinton in the 90's with the grand total from LBJ to Bush not near as much as the single $700 billion bailout known as TARP. Add in a trillion or two for their greedy capitalist scum friends...just who is now on welfare ?

Between 700,000 amd 2 million qualifying farmers have now received in cash more money from the federal govt. in cash subsidies than the entire total over the entire history of AFDC. (Aid to Families with Dep. Child.)

There isn't a tax regime that will keep American jobs from being exported unless your suggesting labor be taxed twice, once for govt, and again to pay to jeep their job... what a hoot.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 6:43:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

he corporation is the producer and the worker and the rest of society are consumers, hopefully, of that product.  Neither can exist without the other.

You do know that human beings have been around a lot longer than corporations.... just in case you didn't know I thought I would let you in on the order of things

Oh...geez.  Golly, thanks for the update.  Here is a little insight for you.  Corporations are individuals under the law of the United States and most other nations.  As I tell young people, "Each one of you is a corporation.  You are Pres.Jane Doe of Jane Doe incorporated.  So act presidential because no one is going to take care of your business better than you."  So the guy that sells the tomatoes is his own corporation.  Right????  He maximizes profits by growing as many tomatoes as he can.  Correct?

Let's look at Lucylastic.  She makes sex toys, right?  She maximizes profits by making the best sex toys she can make as quickly as she can make them and then markets them in the most effective and inexpensive way possible.  Would anyone say that Lucy should employ people that she doesn't need?  No.  Would anyone suggest that Lucy should take a cut in the salary she pays herself and thereby reduce her standard of living in order to pay someone who is less fortunate?  No.  We encourage Lucy to make the best of what she makes and to come up with ever more efficient means of reducing her costs and maximizing her profits.  Why wouldn't we recommend that for every individual, incorporated or not????????????

The supreme court is way off base and the very idea that something you can't see, feel or touch is anything like a person. Every lawyer and thus every member of the supreme court knows that the corporation doesn't exist...except on paper.

It has been and ridiculously so...a legally enshrined paper device allowing one to privately profit without private liability.

Oh and BTW, Lucylastic if she was a typical American corporatist/capitalist, wouldn't be making sex toys. Her Chinese partner's 30 cent an hour (slave ) labor would be making them. She would not employ anyone she doesn't need and is in fact in the business of eliminating American jobs...soon as she can find a cheaper replacement.

You see, if Lucy was a true blue, partriotic, American capitalist, she would believe that she is not in business to serve herself and the country that empowers her to but to serve herself and not society. In fact as a capitalist, society exists to serve her.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/12/2011 6:51:19 PM >

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 6:49:32 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so all these 43 million on food stamps have to live with cuts to their stamps, their cut  healthcare rights and rising prices until the recovery starts?


With a drastically reduced corporate tax rate and the EPA stripped of powers it was never actually intended to have, recovery would be virtually immediate. We wouldnt need the endless extensions of unemployment benefits.


Weren't we told that the FIRST ROUND of Bush Tax Cuts were going to balance the budget by 2010? So, since that's been proven false, you're suggesting MORE cuts to revenue?

How about this. There's no "right" to subsidies and tax credits, so it's time for them to "share the pain" and start paying all of what they owe...

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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 7:08:01 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

$578.00 per week...for 99 weeks.

who gets that for what?


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RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 8:12:42 PM   
Mezrem


Posts: 311
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Status: offline 		Hate to break the news too you, but he took us into the Afgan war with the support of the bulk of us right there with him. Fresh off the hit to the TWC and we wanted blood. Did he lose target the longer it went on, yup he sure as hell did. From what I have seen of Obama though I would still take Bush. Obama has insulted allies and all but crawled into bed with people that would be more then happy to shove a knife in our collective backs. As for Obama being the main reason OBL was at last sent for his dirt nap... that is bull shit. He did a good job for having the stones to make the call to kill the bastard but the real credit goes to the brave people with thier boots in the sand that gathered the intell and pulled the triggers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Bush was horrid on domestic policy,


And how was he on his international policy? He started unnecessary wars, ran up the deficit for them, and then we had to wait for Obama to get bin Laden in the end because it wasn't a priority for Bush



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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 8:15:12 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


Weren't we told that the FIRST ROUND of Bush Tax Cuts were going to balance the budget by 2010? So, since that's been proven false, you're suggesting MORE cuts to revenue?

How about this. There's no "right" to subsidies and tax credits, so it's time for them to "share the pain" and start paying all of what they owe...


We werent "told" that the Democrats would control both Houses at the end of his Admin, we weren't "told" that the disaster the Democrats caused in the housing market would happen when it did.

And before you go around accusing companies of "not paying what they owe", why don't you get your CPA/law degree out of the draw and tell us which ones arent.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 8:19:54 PM   
outhere69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
$578.00 per week...for 99 weeks.

Not around here.  I'd get $387 per week.  A vast sum, to be sure.  I'd promptly lose my house.

Bush cut taxes 3 times, and there was very anemic growth.  But the rich got a hell of a lot richer.  Supply side's been done to death, it doesn't work.

BTW, lots of states/communities are so desperate for jobs that they will give massive concessions to corporations, like no taxes for 5 or 10 years, etc.  They will even pay sales taxes for the corporation.  So you get a company that adds employees, loads up the schools, adds traffic, etc. but leaves all the load on the municipality.  Walmart is famous for driving hard bargains, then relocating when the concessions expire.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/12/2011 8:20:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

$578.00 per week...for 99 weeks.

who gets that for what?



Minnesota maximum unemployment. And thats only the 3rd highest state.


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/13/2011 3:39:30 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mezrem

So business should not be seeking to make a return on the investment of capital put in by the share holders? They should be in business only to provide jobs and not seek to make money for the people who are taking the risk on the success of the business? If my view if flawed tell me how, I'm not trying to nesserly provoke you. Rather I am trying to understand the logic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The producers are not the corporations, the producers are the workers.  I see you not only are not educated in communication, you lack other basic education as well.

And that's who the rightwingers are going after, and leaving the corpulent with all.

The workers who work and work and produce and produce until the company is so successful it can buy automated machinery, cutting jobs to keep the bottom line up, oh and to pay higher divis to those important shareholders.
I guess soylent green will be in production soon, (no humans needed to run it)





Wonderful if it was true. But what happened was Corporations didn't invest in new and better equipment when they went to china. They invested in massive slave labor work forces to produce inferior products that then were foisted on the American consumer.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: JOBS JOBS JOBS...and the GOP - 5/13/2011 4:34:38 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

$578.00 per week...for 99 weeks.


Why do I smell another sock puppet here?

Maybe because it is the same throwing out of numbers with nothing to back them.


Can you live on $330 a week? - 1 - jobless benefits - MSN Money

A fraction of a paycheck

The goal of the unemployment insurance program, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, is to provide people with about half their normal wage. However, it almost never works out that way. The average American collected $295 in weekly unemployment benefits in the third quarter of 2010, according to the most recent government data. But the average weekly salary in that same quarter was $865, which means the jobless benefits replaced just over a third of the average worker's salary




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Profile   Post #: 80
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