RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:30:58 PM)

quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?




popeye1250 -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:31:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Both he and Gifford worshipped at the same synagogue. 


There is ample evidence that she worshipped at a synagogue, and none that he did.  Just because he has Judaism in his lineage....

back on topic... if there had been any other result, I would have bee shocked.  He's completely nuts and that's his best defense.



The point is that they knew eachother.




PaHunk, what are you talking about? Nut boy had one of those voodoo alters in his back yard!




pahunkboy -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:36:00 PM)

^- nope.   Gifford and the shooter knew each other. 




jlf1961 -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:41:21 PM)

There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.




tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:42:12 PM)

I went to the same high school for four years, and I never knew everyone in my graduating class.




pahunkboy -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 6:45:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.


Yes they did.




juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:04:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?



Isn't that a false dichotomy? Are you saying there are no other options between setting someone dangerous free, and sending them to prison for a crime they were too whacked out to know they committed?






OrionTheWolf -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:16:13 PM)

In my opinion there are many options and variations between the two. This is why I support what I stated. It insures that the judicial system will always oversee what happens. In some cases it may mean lifetime treatment and review, whether in-patient, out-patient, combination of the two, or whatever else is determined to be in the best interest of justice, society and the person committing the crime.




juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:27:59 PM)

I would agree that there can be many options....

I suppose my response is along the lines of the person is proven to be not only incompetent to stand trial, but incapable of forming criminal intent to commit a crime because of the severity of their illness. A person such as this may never be competent to be tried, they may receive treatment, be found not guilty by reason of insanity, and be held and treated in a hospital.

I have a brother that is mentally ill. He has never hurt anyone physically. He has been put in jail because he has done dumb things, like take the keys out of a cop's car because he thought someone would take them... you know, hold on to them for the cop... the cop was not amused and he was locked up for a couple of weeks.


My brother has been so deluded in the past that he heard voices that told him things, and luckily he would not act on it. He was put on medication that helped him. He still have trouble holding jobs, has refused treatment at times, etc etc etc. It is hard to have a loved one that is this sick, because there is nothing you can do to compel a person into treatment short of hiring an attorney, which I do not have the money for. My brother has been homeless at times, even though he had other options. In the past, if he had committed a violent act I would not have thought him "guilty" because I know him. He is not a violent person. He hasn't a violent bone in his body.

I think we need to treat the mentally ill much differently than we do. It would prevent things like the Giffords shooting if family and friends could intervene for a loved one more quickly. Many people knew this kid was sick, and no one could help him.




pahunkboy -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:31:21 PM)

I dont think the shooter should be walking around- in public or even out patient.   




juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:33:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I dont think the shooter should be walking around- in public or even out patient.   



How about in a hospital for the criminally insane... which is the usual option[8|]




jlf1961 -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:53:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.


Yes they did.



Prove it




pahunkboy -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 7:54:50 PM)

They knew each other. 




jlf1961 -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:09:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

They knew each other. 



As I suspected, you are once more long on talk, short on facts.




tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:27:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?



Isn't that a false dichotomy? Are you saying there are no other options between setting someone dangerous free, and sending them to prison for a crime they were too whacked out to know they committed?





No, I was trying to understand your POV.

If he isnt sane enough to stand trial, he isnt sane enough to be released into society. So he will be held in custody until he is sane enough... if ever.

At which time, he will go before a Judge. We all know schizophrenics can be managed with medication. We all also know they tend to be extremely non compliant once they are medication managed.

His trial will basically consist of... did he do it. Yes, by reasons of insanity. At which time, if that is the verdict, he will be held once again.

No one said he would ever go to prison. He will go to a state hospital for the criminally insane. Pretty much every state has one.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=crmas&p=state+hospital+for+the+criminally+insane







TheHeretic -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:31:43 PM)

Maybe on something like this, we should try him anyway, and execute him. It might be the more merciful thing. What happens if he does get his meds balanced out well enough to really understand what he did, and then has to live with it?




juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:35:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Maybe on something like this, we should try him anyway, and execute him. It might be the more merciful thing. What happens if he does get his meds balanced out well enough to really understand what he did, and then has to live with it?



Yeah, just treat human beings like rabid dogs[8|]




tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:41:04 PM)

Didnt Laughner?




juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:43:56 PM)

The mentally ill in this country have a rough lot. People do not see the brain as an organ that can become diseased, like lungs, or the heart, or the liver. Our people are just barbaric




tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 8:49:26 PM)

This isnt like a tumor you can cut out and the patient is all better. This is a life long illness. No one around him noticed he was getting worse? That pretty much sums up why he wont be living in society anymore.

He will be better off in a hospital with professionals who can take care of him and manage his symptoms.




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