RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent

RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 10:52:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I think that your post is an example of how our system is completely broken... we use jails as mental wards so we do not have to deal with crazy people. Most of those people didn't do anything all that wrong (the ones in jail at least) I saw this documentary about treating mentally ill in prison.. medicating these people in jail. It was unreal the amount of psychotropic medication they are handing out. They are not really equipped to deal with it. But he wont go to jail, julia.

Marini -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 10:59:43 PM)
tazzy, the jails are FULL of people that are seriously mentally ill. I could type for days about the millions of people in jail, death row, and that have been executed that are mentally ill, and many had very low IQ's, and were diagnosed as mentally retarded. I could type for weeks on this subject, I am not going to do that. Justice is many things, and it is very, very, rare that I consider it fair. CBS news: Jails full of mentally ill Mentally ill strain US jails

tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:04:55 PM)
Schizophrenia isnt just an every day run of the mill disorder, Marini. I do understand your point, and, yes, many held in jails are mentally ill. Think of the difference between a thug who killed someone because of a bad drug deal and the movie "Silence of the Lambs". Im not saying Laughner is that bad, but some people are. I had to do a clinical rotation at Dorothea Dix Hospital in NC. Some of them appeared very sane... but they werent. Last I heard, it was slated to close. I cant speak of the man's mental illness, how he was diagnosed... I dont know anything about him. What I can say is that he was diagnosed by people who deal with this issue everyday. He could be faking, and he will be found out. Or he truly could be mentally ill and require intensive treatment. We dont know.

Marini -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:10:51 PM)
Well, let the "poor man" get the treatment he most certainly deserves, I hope he goes to a country club psychiatric facility. I would bet my entire paycheck there are thousands in the system that are schizophrenic, and are getting little to no attention, much less proper treatement. As is almost always in our country, to hell with them let them eat cake! mental illness and death row take care

tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:13:50 PM)
I wont take that bet because you are right. The difference? The lawyer. I never called him a "poor man", in my opinion, he is sick and twisted. I blame those around him more than I do him, at this point. I reserve the right to change that if/when its determined he is faking.

SternSkipper -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:16:27 PM)
quote: Really rather sad, how our healthcare system doesn't deal with mental illness until something tragic happens, and even then it is on a case by case basis. How many other people suffer undiagnosed with this problem? Since schizophrenics have as a symptom in most cases a denial of their condition, and you have to either make suicidal ideations or indicate some threat to others in order for a clinician to forcefully intervene and mandate treatment against the will of the patient. How is this so? I never saw anything indicating anyone knew beforehand he would be going Oswald. I remember his friends feeling troubled. But never heard anything about them reporting him to authorities with that kind of concern. Also, patient records are confidential, So how do we know the system failed? I don't doubt that it did, but we don't know for sure what went on during his prior treatment.

SternSkipper -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:20:31 PM)
quote: Schizophrenia isnt just an every day run of the mill disorder, Marini. Oh sure ... you can hang around here and say that with a straight face[:D]

Marini -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:22:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I wont take that bet because you are right. The difference? The lawyer. BINGO, this is ALL about having a good lawyer, or team of lawyers. I never called him a "poor man", in my opinion, he is sick and twisted. I blame those around him more than I do him, at this point. I reserve the right to change that if/when its determined he is faking. At the end of the day, my point is this. EVEN if he IS faking, what about half those already in howdy doody jail that are definitely mentally ill? let them eat cake as they sit in jail untreated or on death row. I hope if nothing else, this situation shines a light on the large number of definitely clinically diagnosed mentally ill that are in prision. Of course, in this day of drastic budget cuts we can EXPECT more and more seriously mentally ill people to commit crimes and end up in jail. Maybe if they manage to cut medicare we will have more mentally ill senior citizens in jail also!

tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:35:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: Schizophrenia isnt just an every day run of the mill disorder, Marini. Oh sure ... you can hang around here and say that with a straight face[:D] Hey, I in no way ever said some of the people around here are not crazy.

tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:37:04 PM)
quote: At the end of the day, my point is this. EVEN if he IS faking, what about half those already in howdy doody jail that are definitely mentally ill? let them eat cake as they sit in jail untreated or on death row. Silly wabbits, didn't have good lawyers I feel you... I just cant do anything about it beyond voting and trying my best to educate people. Our criminal justice system is as crooked as our health care system. Think on that one

tazzygirl -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/25/2011 11:46:44 PM)
quote: hope if nothing else, this situation shines a light on the large number of definitely clinically diagnosed mentally ill that are in prision. Of course, in this day of drastic budget cuts we can EXPECT more and more seriously mentally ill people to commit crimes and end up in jail. Maybe if they manage to cut medicare we will have more mentally ill senior citizens in jail also! Oh Marini, this problem has been getting worse since Reaganomics. The cuts to mental health then were drastic and people were turned out into the streets without any support. I dont blame any political party, I blame them both. It could have been fixed when the problems started becoming noticable. Instead, both sides shoved their heads in the sand. Well, the sand just got hot. Lets see what happens and pray for the best.

rulemylife -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 2:48:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf ~FR~ I have always prefered "Guilty by reason of insanity or mental defect." Then the person gets treatment, and possible punishment if the insanity is treated enough to understand what they had done. So you should be "punished" for being mentally ill to the point of not being able to discern delusion from reality? Seriously? The problem is whether that is the truth or not. Insanity defenses have become far too common in the legal system and it's easy to find some psychiatrist or psychologist to testify.

rulemylife -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 2:52:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktbMbQJ-YR0 the smoking gun that judge was going to rule against the banks in a pivotal forclosure case. oh the coincidence oh the irony newspaper reporters have not found any evidence of foul play so at least we have proof that we can all rest easy in america. Was someone talking about mental health issues?

rulemylife -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 3:05:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 By definition wouldn't someone who walks into a crowd and starts shooting be "insane?" Could they be "competent" enough to stand trial but still be insane? To the first question no. There can be a lot of reasons. I'm not saying they are justifiable reasons but that doesn't qualify them as insane. To the second question, either they are mentally competent or they are not. The difference being whether they go to prison or a mental facility.

juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 8:03:31 AM)
quote: The problem is whether that is the truth or not. Insanity defenses have become far too common in the legal system and it's easy to find some psychiatrist or psychologist to testify Actually, from what I know of the criminal defense of "insanity", it is rarely successful, but maybe you have read something more recent than I have on the topic. My info is about a decade old and related to a law and culture class.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 11:18:05 AM)
It is rarely successful. The person could still have some severe mental issues, but if it does not meet the strict criteria, it is not successful. Not to mention the amount of money it uses. Now look at my idea, and instead of defending it as an innocent plea, it becomes part of a guilty admission where it would be much easier to get court mandated treatment, and longer term observation and review.

juliaoceania -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 11:21:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf It is rarely successful. The person could still have some severe mental issues, but if it does not meet the strict criteria, it is not successful. Not to mention the amount of money it uses. Now look at my idea, and instead of defending it as an innocent plea, it becomes part of a guilty admission where it would be much easier to get court mandated treatment, and longer term observation and review. I wouldn't support that because I do not think people completely disconnected from reality are responsible for their actions anymore than a very young child is

Nosathro -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 1:04:24 PM)
I think there is a misunderstanding of the Judge's ruling. He is not yet been ruled mentally ill. What has happened is that the judge has ruled at the present time the accused is not competent to stand trial. He has been sent to a hospital for treatment, in about 4 months he will return to court and the judge will review the treatment and determine if he is competent, if the judge rules he is competent to stand trial, then the trial will proceed. If the accused is still not competent he will be returned hospital for further treatment until he is competent to stand trial.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 1:36:18 PM)
The responsibility factor is on society and the judicial system. If some "feeling" you have stands in the way of people getting better treatment, having reviews of their cases, and processed in a way that better serves society and them, then the problem isn't with the system. Your opinion though, but unfortunately a majority one that keeps the system as it is. So, those with severe mental illness, that are not used as a successful defense get shipped right off to prison. That is the current system. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf It is rarely successful. The person could still have some severe mental issues, but if it does not meet the strict criteria, it is not successful. Not to mention the amount of money it uses. Now look at my idea, and instead of defending it as an innocent plea, it becomes part of a guilty admission where it would be much easier to get court mandated treatment, and longer term observation and review. I wouldn't support that because I do not think people completely disconnected from reality are responsible for their actions anymore than a very young child is

SternSkipper -> RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent (5/26/2011 2:33:06 PM)
quote: How did this guy get so well armed? He lived near an Arizona Walmart during their "shoot your way into spring" sale. Dude ... with all the firepower you can get out there, you could be governor of Delaware in like a week

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