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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/14/2011 4:48:12 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

soooo WyldHrt is a little bit awesome. mmmhmmm. 

And no giving away which dog is the real pit on the test I posted, missy!


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/14/2011 8:43:55 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I get that people that own them want to defend them, and yes, owners that encourage that suck, however, the reason it is SO easy to get a pit bull to be aggressive like that is because they are already wired for that behavior to begin with.

That is incorrect. APBTs were bred to be dog/ animal aggressive, not human aggressive. I know that statement is counter intuitive and doesn't make sense unless you (general) know the history of the breed and the pit, but it is true nonetheless.

The fact is- the best and the worst thing about APBTs is that, barring defective temperament, they will become whatever their owner wants and trains them to be.



< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 6/14/2011 8:44:40 PM >


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 9:08:19 AM   
MaxsBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

The fact is- the best and the worst thing about APBTs is that, barring defective temperament, they will become whatever their owner wants and trains them to be.



And you have to be aware that *you are always training your pit*.  If you have a pit puppy and think it's adorable that he gnaws on your hands, you'd better be ok with him gnawing on you as an adult, too.  If you think it's super cute that your pit puppy barks aggressively with strangers, expect your adult pit to continue with that behavior.  Pits are very smart - if you're not training them that a behavior if is wrong, you're training them that it's right, whether that's your intention or not.  Personally, I think an awful lot of dog owners shouldn't be owning any kind of dog at all, especially a pit.

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 2:23:35 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


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nm

< Message edited by LinnaeaBorealis -- 6/15/2011 2:29:52 PM >


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 2:36:23 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

So are you gonna give us a clue which one it is?

Cmail me your guess(es), and I'll tell ya if you are right. If you aren't, I'll give you the breeds.
quote:

Is there really only one on that page who is the APBT??

Yup, there's only one APBT on the page. The point of the game is to show that various breeds are often mistaken for pit bulls.
BTW, all the dogs on the page are purebreds (pics from reputable breeder sites), so there are no pit bull mixes to confuse the issue. 

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 2:42:15 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

If you have a pit puppy and think it's adorable that he gnaws on your hands, you'd better be ok with him gnawing on you as an adult, too.  If you think it's super cute that your pit puppy barks aggressively with strangers, expect your adult pit to continue with that behavior.  Pits are very smart - if you're not training them that a behavior if is wrong, you're training them that it's right, whether that's your intention or not.

Exactly. The bolded sentence is where many clueless owners go wrong, encouraging a young pup to act 'big and bad' because it's sooooooooo cute.
quote:

Personally, I think an awful lot of dog owners shouldn't be owning any kind of dog at all, especially a pit.

This, too.


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 3:39:57 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Even with adult dogs, they will push on occasion and test you out, just simple things like waiting just that tad longer until they follow a command, or pretend to not hear... You have to correct them ASAP or else you're giving the dog the signal that it's OK.

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 3:55:49 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

If you have a pit puppy and think it's adorable that he gnaws on your hands, you'd better be ok with him gnawing on you as an adult, too.  If you think it's super cute that your pit puppy barks aggressively with strangers, expect your adult pit to continue with that behavior.  Pits are very smart - if you're not training them that a behavior if is wrong, you're training them that it's right, whether that's your intention or not.

Exactly. The bolded sentence is where many clueless owners go wrong, encouraging a young pup to act 'big and bad' because it's sooooooooo cute.
quote:

Personally, I think an awful lot of dog owners shouldn't be owning any kind of dog at all, especially a pit.

This, too.



I think that this applies to any breed of dog. I had to constantly keep on top of Spike the Amazing Wonder Dog to make sure that he remembered his training. Consistency is the key, IMO. I did something with him that I was told I shouldn't have done. He was feral when I got him & didn't know how to play. I taught him how to bite me in play & how to have a soft mouth when he did it. I figure that he had the bite for preservation & defense instinct, so I taught him to have the soft mouth during play.

He never did bite anyone nor did he bite another animal or even get aggressive with another animal. I brought kittens home & he played with them & slept with them. But there were those moments when I could see that he was considering reverting & all it took was a re-assertion of my dominance & he would sort of shake himself & grin sheepishly.

Oh & Spike the Amazing Wonder Dog only weighed 12 lbs.

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 4:22:34 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I think that this applies to any breed of dog.

It definitely applies to any breed of dog, but pits tend to take such things 'to heart' more than some other breeds. They are very 'soft' with and dependent on their owners and will follow the lead set more readily than a Rhodesian Ridgeback or other independent breed.

My sister used to train and show ridgebacks, and the word for them is: stubborn! Hers also had the 'FU look' down pat, and would bust it out whenever you tried to get them to do something they really did not want to do. It sounds funny, but members of that breed (as a whole) need much more active dominance than any pit I've ever handled.



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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 5:47:42 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Tell Me about it. My pup is half Rhodesian and half yellow lab.

Sometimes I REEEEEEALLY have to glare at him.


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I twill follow the lead set more readily than a Rhodesian Ridgeback or other independent breed.

My sister used to train and show ridgebacks, and the word for them is: stubborn! Hers also had the 'FU look' down pat, and would bust it out whenever you tried to get them to do something they really did not want to do. It sounds funny, but members of that breed (as a whole) need much more active dominance than any pit I've ever handled.





< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/15/2011 5:49:07 PM >


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 8:36:30 PM   
Kowgurl


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Mz Reel get Real you would shot a man that was about to rape or murder you but not a dog that was about to attack. You would also shot a man that was going to rob you of $1,000s of dollars but no a dog that was going to cost you $1,000s in medical expenses. The cost to treat a dog attack begins at $5,000.00 and goes up from there. Don't believe me ask you home insurance agent also dog bites are most common claim filed against home owners insurance. I am on a high deductible medical plan because that is all that is offered at my work. The first $3,000 is out of my pocket and the rest is 80/20 so a minimal cost would leave me owing $3,400+ when copay are included in medical expenses. A neighbor was attached by a dog and had her face bitten 4 times 192 stitches needed a plastic surgeon but still has scars. Medical bills $45,000 with a 80/20 pay out so that is $9,000.00 she has to come up with. Guess what the guy who owns the dog does not have money or insurance. Her lawyer said she could sue and win but most likely not be able to collect. Legal action meant more money down the drain. Oh the good news is that her medical expenses are high enough that she can claim them as tax deductions. A coworker's daughter was attached by a dog, $10,000.00 in medical expenses. The owner had insurance but the insurance company is dragging their feet. So she has to come up with $3,000 to pay medical expenses while the insurance companies work thing out.

I had a dog that I got from a breeder which cost me $1,200. A big dog jumped the fence and killer her. Then escaped I do not know who owned the dog. It is ok for the other dog to kill my dog but not ok for me to kill the attacker before it killed my dog.

You mentioned that shooting the dog was wrong on so many levels. Name one reason why it was wrong.

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/15/2011 11:44:10 PM   
xXsoumisXx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
So by your logic a small dog can't be vicious or aggressive because it can't kill somebody.


Can you just imagine the carnage if a pack of Yorkies (no matter how mean and vicious) had gotten to those livestock?




In case you don't know about it, nothing will stop you from educating yourself, the internet is a brilliant research tool... Have you ever seen the carnage little breeds like Yorkies can cause when chasing pregnant sheep and causing them to abort? But apparently you aren't quite evolved enough to understand that aggression has nothing to do with size, or do you think only big strong guys can be aggressive?

Btw would you me to take a picture of my male Doberman's shoulder? Nice cut, hurts him like hell, he's on antibiotics now, has trouble moving, £120 vet bill so far, the cut is about 5" long and deep, and guess what kind of dog attacked him? A Jack Russel... Go on and tell me some more BS about only big dogs are aggressive and dangerous. And guess what, the moronic owner didn't have his Jack Russel under control, guess not needed since he's only a "small dog" - both of mine followed my call back command straight away and stayed with me, as I didn't want to see another dog being torn to pieces. And nope, they did nothing to provoke the attack, I was putting them through their paces and then threw a ball, when Alf caught the ball the Jack Russel came from out of nowhere and launched himself at my dog. If I wouldn't have been so worried about mine bleeding like crazy and getting him to the vet ASAP, I might have rearranged the owner's face - of course the owner grabbed his freaking dog and just left... Nice one...



Go on and share your great "knowledge" about dangerous dogs, obviously you do have no freaking clue what you are talking about! Dig a bit more and let us know when you've reached China!


I am so pleased to see your Dobie's ears intact!
I have owned 2.. both wonderful, gentle, and loyal.
One of them had a female Pom leap up and chomp on his balls..he turned around and i so thought she would be dead..he had her in his teeth... he pulled her off and flung her away. and sat down and retained his dignity.. i have owned other small breeds, and never trusted them around small children as i did the Dobermans. I had a Shih-Tzu that broke her lead to attack 2 standard poodles who ingnored her... she was beneath their dignity, apparently ..lol
No excuse for letting dogs roam, and revert to the wild pack mentality.
pit bulls scare me, tho the ones i have met, have been great.
I don't like that they scare me, i am usually so not afraid of animals...
what other breed have you seen ( or heard about) have attacked children or adults, or other animals? is it because the media reports on pits more?

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/16/2011 12:24:51 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Tell Me about it. My pup is half Rhodesian and half yellow lab.
Sometimes I REEEEEEALLY have to glare at him.

Sounds like you are at least halfway familiar with the infamous ridgeback 'FU look', then. My sister's purebred male, Andrew, had that look down pat

Amusingly, when she took my pit and rott x for a walk while visiting, she commented on how... woah... obedient they were



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"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/16/2011 1:00:45 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

what other breed have you seen ( or heard about) have attacked children or adults, or other animals? is it because the media reports on pits more?

Yes. All breeds can, and sometimes do, attack humans.
Name a breed, and I can probably find a news story. Here are a few:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/06/08/infant-mauled-by-dog.html

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Family-pet-kills-infant-in-Northwest-Harris-County-112209764.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2008/07/puppy-kills-2-m.html

http://www.newser.com/story/119693/family-dog-kills-boy-4.html

http://www.channel3000.com/news/24761709/detail.html

http://www2.abcactionnews.com/dpp/entertainment/weird_news/Dachshunds-attack-pit-bulls-and-girl (wonder how this one would have played the other way around?)

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_30557d36-e432-5fa8-a9cc-d1b79f961756.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/787193/Small-Pomeranian-kills-baby-while-caretaker-warms-bottle.html

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/07/29/dnt.ok.puppy.kills.baby.cnn



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"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/16/2011 4:13:12 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx


I am so pleased to see your Dobie's ears intact!
I have owned 2.. both wonderful, gentle, and loyal.
One of them had a female Pom leap up and chomp on his balls..he turned around and i so thought she would be dead..he had her in his teeth... he pulled her off and flung her away. and sat down and retained his dignity.. i have owned other small breeds, and never trusted them around small children as i did the Dobermans. I had a Shih-Tzu that broke her lead to attack 2 standard poodles who ingnored her... she was beneath their dignity, apparently ..lol
No excuse for letting dogs roam, and revert to the wild pack mentality.
pit bulls scare me, tho the ones i have met, have been great.
I don't like that they scare me, i am usually so not afraid of animals...
what other breed have you seen ( or heard about) have attacked children or adults, or other animals? is it because the media reports on pits more?



Ear cropping and tail docking is outlawed in most European countries, my girl Dobie is going on to 7 and had her tail docked by the breeders as it used to be "breeding standard" at the time, pisses me off major, other dogs often can't tell that she's friendly as she has only a little stump she can wag and tend to snarl or attack, hence she's less playful with other dogs but amazing with children. The boy has been rehomed a lot and has a history of abuse (sad to think that a 2 year old dog had to go through that) and he's a bit scared of children, he'll hang back while the girl makes friends with kids and then slowly comes forward once he's sure they won't hurt him. When it comes to strange dogs, he usually takes the lead and greets them with lots of tail wagging while she hangs back and checks if they are friendly, then joins in (she had a lot of bites from other dogs so she's much more careful and less trusting with dogs).

I don't think small breeds are more dangerous, it's the owners, they think because their dogs are small they don't need to be trained and they carry them around a lot, so the dog is on their arms (high up - translates to the dog "I'm higher up in the pecking order, not a member of the pack but a leader), they feed the dog from their plate (dogs eat according to rank in the pack, let them eat with you or before you and they assume you are paying homage to their rank and they are higher up than you) and a lot of small dogs were actually bred to be aggressive. Terriers are hunting dogs, they are gutsy and fierce.

The whole thing about pits being dangerous is a bit rubbish in my eyes, the wrong owner makes a dog dangerous, it's usually that the owners of the bigger breeds train the dogs to be more obedient because if roughly 100 lbs of dog flesh with a 4 paw drive pull you around, you'll be pulled along (in my case, I almost got twice my weight in dogs), with a small 10 to 40 lbs dog, you can scoop them up, if a small dog pulls at the lead and barks and growls at people, most just laugh as the dog is "only small", if my Dobes would bark at somebody, the people would be frightened and possibly report them as aggressive dogs.

There was a case in the news over here not too long ago, a Rottie had bitten a child and it was all "Bad bad Rotties, they should be a banned breed or forced to have muzzles" again, my Dobie girl got filthy looks because she has the same colouring, so must be bad (I wonder if they give Dachshounds also filthy looks as a lot of them have the black and tan colouring...) The follow up of the case was a bit less spectacular, the child had entered the closed yard to play with one of the puppies, the mother defended the litter, child had scooped up a puppy and was trying to run away, still clutching the puppy (possibly was too afraid to think about putting it down) and the child got bitten in the leg and needed stitches. I'd seriously not blame the dog, the child was an intruder on the dog's turf and the dog defended her litter against a stranger, if you go near a lamb, the ewes will also try to defend it if they don't know you and possibly headbutt you, a cat will go for you if it thinks the litter is in danger...

If a headline screams "Pitbulls bit/attacked..." it grabs attention, and how many people do really know breeds? Short haired, stout, heavy... Oh must be a Pit... It's a lot less spectacular if a Chihuahua bites somebody, but according to hospitals one of the most frequent dog bite wounds they treat and funny enough mostly the owners...

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/16/2011 4:47:00 AM   
barelynangel


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Opps, somehow posted in the wrong thread -- skips over to  the taser thread.

Sorry.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/16/2011 4:48:00 AM >


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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/16/2011 10:40:55 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

what other breed have you seen ( or heard about) have attacked children or adults, or other animals? is it because the media reports on pits more?


Yes. All breeds can, and sometimes do, attack humans.
Name a breed, and I can probably find a news story. Here are a few:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/06/08/infant-mauled-by-dog.html



It could also be stated: 'Yes, all breeds of idiot parents can allow this to happen.'

All but one of those was an in-family attack when an adult was not in the same room with dog and child together. Quote from the first news story:

"In any case, a child should never be left unattended around dogs, Styles said."

When one of my sisters lived with me with newborn-till-15 mo. old child, I would ocassionally come into the LR and see just the boy and the dog together, sister in kitchen in next room. She could have heard most any trouble even if minor, but no line of sight. I didn't think this was a good thing because the well behaved dog was nevertheless a bit skittish and toddlers poke and grab indescriminately.

I gently told her that maybe the dog should be outside if she couldn't have her son in immediate view ( he was old enough/predictable enough to leave in next room for short spells on his own by this time, she would have him respond to her, etc.). The dog was quite gentle and she thought nothing could ever happen. Sure enough, I come home one day and there's a light scratch on his the boy's head. The dog was indeed very gentle, as he nipped light as he could for being startled by the toddler, possibly poked or something. She didn't leave them alone again till the boy was 4 or so, and knew how to treat the dog.


But on a lighter note here's a video of a dog that is truly exceptional in knowing what a baby is doing, its intention, etc. and knows how to play with this baby perfectly (I forget where this came to my attention, it might have been this site):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_I9ld-oDTs

Even then, a parent is obviously watching. But take a close look starting ~ 1:50.

At 1:57 the dog runs up to the baby and removes the pacifier from its mouth and drops it, then runs away. Hard to see because camera is to the baby's back. But then the dog runs around the table and goes up to the baby to lick its face, only time in the whole play episode, as if to tell the baby, "you know I was just kidding, right?", wanting to make sure no offense was taken.

As I say, this dog is definitely the exception, not the rule, in having no trouble with waving/grabbing hands.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/16/2011 11:32:21 PM >

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/17/2011 5:55:47 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Tell Me about it. My pup is half Rhodesian and half yellow lab.
Sometimes I REEEEEEALLY have to glare at him.

Sounds like you are at least halfway familiar with the infamous ridgeback 'FU look', then. My sister's purebred male, Andrew, had that look down pat

Amusingly, when she took my pit and rott x for a walk while visiting, she commented on how... woah... obedient they were



He has the stubbornness of a rhodie and the "stickcentricity" of a yellow lab. Interesting mix.

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/17/2011 7:49:40 AM   
LadyConstanze


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LOL, my dogs play with a Ridgeback, she's a lovely girl but at 8 months (a pup) really massive, but such a good natured and playful dog, love watching them together, I sometimes take her along for a walk since the owner had back surgery and it's quite funny, with the 3 large dogs a lot of people tend to look quite scared, though the 3 dogs tend to be better behaved than most small dogs. There's a simple trick to it, called Gentle Leader each of the dogs experienced it when they tried to pull, I just have it with me and the offending party gets the snout lead and the others look quite worried and behave like fresh out of dog school, sometimes it's even enough to just pull it out of the pocket and say "Look what I have" and they remember their training ASAP, 100% painless but they HATE them...

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/17/2011 8:00:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


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LadyC, I adopted 150# of wolf hybrid several years ago.  He was like that with the muzzle.  I HAD to muzzle him in public but when I needed to do things like clip his nails, all I had to do was put the muzzle on the floor where he could see it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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