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RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:29:01 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Joined: 12/29/2010
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i think what he's saying is that it really doesn't prove anything that a community of people who might be just as bad kicked someone out; as several of us have already said, in some cases, communities are run by the very people who should be kicked out. =p whistle blowers get squashed for daring to speak up against leaders doing shit they don't agree with, or the victims are blamed and cast out while the actual perpetrator skates by. it happens A LOT.
i read a great article about predatory leadership; people who get others to believe that "someone else is the cause of your problems; band with me and i'll make sure they don't hurt you" while BEING the person who is most likely committing the hurt. =p many groups, not just kink ones, suffer from this kind of leadership.

so this idea that groups are going to be 100% free of terror and bad people, because the groups would naturally weed out the bad people is terribly flawed logic.

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Post #: 81

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:32:26 AM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
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*just a general reply*

I have to say that I am surprised at the number of negative experiences reported interacting with local communities. I guess I would say that any time you mix humans together, there are going to be a certain number of asshats. The Colorado scene is certainly not without them, but they are easy to avoid, and we have found that there are more delightful people that are worth the occasional encounter with the asshats.

My Lady and I discussed this topic this morning, and she says that she always "sets up" her entrance into a new group by getting out on Fet and finding the group there and trying first to introduce herself so when she walks into the room, she already has at least one "acquaintance" if not outright friendly person. She, like LadyP, has experience with multiple groups and has generally had good experiences.

The other thing...politics...it is here too. We stay out of it. Period. Much more enjoyable that way.

So I am still a GREAT fan of getting out to your local community!

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Post #: 82

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:32:27 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

So you let others dictate how you should perceive a stranger.

Good to know!

and that's another thing -- a lot of these people who practice forms of predatory, insular leadership know that it will succeed because they know that most people are extremely likely to take whatever story they hear and believe it. they won't give a person the benefit of the doubt or judge for themselves -- if 3 of these people say the same thing, then it must be true, right? not necessarily.

ETA: just so it's known, i actually AM a fan of local kink communities; i think they're great ways to get out and socialize and do fun stuff you may not get to do as often as you'd like (though going to play parties as an essentially single person has lost its luster for me as of late). but while i really enjoy participating in community, i don't believe for a second that those people are any better than people i'd meet online, they're not any safer, they aren't any wiser. i could meet someone absolutely HORRIBLE at an event who just managed to build enough of a buffer around himself to protect himself from all the people saying "really, he's a bad guy!" it does happen, and believing that community is somehow going to make you safer is kinda like believing a safeword will do all the work for you -- good intentions, but it doesn't follow through well.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/12/2011 7:35:11 AM >

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Post #: 83

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:33:56 AM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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No, but over time, people generally tend to show their true colors. That means that in a community the creepazoids will generally be weeded out at some point. It's not fool proof (as she pointed out), it's just better. I mean heck, back home everybody knows everybody and their momma! I know how a person is perceived because over the years people have gotten reputations. That doesn't mean I believe it so much as it means if I know and trust the source, I'll tend to be more cautious.

As for munches, well I went to one here in Korea. It was ok. A lot of incestuous behavior - I suppose that happens in a small community. It's not my particular cup of tea. Everyone was younger than me, and I felt a bit like an old lady - not because of age so much as because I did that stuff when I was in my 20's and I'm not in my 20's anymore. They are, though, so I suppose it's par for the course.

Pleasant people. I may become friends with one or two of them, but I don't need all the drama that web-type relationships cause. If other folks dig 'em, good on 'em. For me? No. Thank. You.

Best,
sunshine

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Post #: 84

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:39:27 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i think what he's saying is that it really doesn't prove anything that a community of people who might be just as bad kicked someone out; as several of us have already said, in some cases, communities are run by the very people who should be kicked out. =p whistle blowers get squashed for daring to speak up against leaders doing shit they don't agree with, or the victims are blamed and cast out while the actual perpetrator skates by. it happens A LOT.
i read a great article about predatory leadership; people who get others to believe that "someone else is the cause of your problems; band with me and i'll make sure they don't hurt you" while BEING the person who is most likely committing the hurt. =p many groups, not just kink ones, suffer from this kind of leadership.

so this idea that groups are going to be 100% free of terror and bad people, because the groups would naturally weed out the bad people is terribly flawed logic.

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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Post #: 85

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:43:41 AM

NocturnalStalker

Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i think what he's saying is that it really doesn't prove anything that a community of people who might be just as bad kicked someone out; as several of us have already said, in some cases, communities are run by the very people who should be kicked out. =p whistle blowers get squashed for daring to speak up against leaders doing shit they don't agree with, or the victims are blamed and cast out while the actual perpetrator skates by. it happens A LOT.
i read a great article about predatory leadership; people who get others to believe that "someone else is the cause of your problems; band with me and i'll make sure they don't hurt you" while BEING the person who is most likely committing the hurt. =p many groups, not just kink ones, suffer from this kind of leadership.

so this idea that groups are going to be 100% free of terror and bad people, because the groups would naturally weed out the bad people is terribly flawed logic.

You nailed it. I personally cannot take anybody that advocates groupthink seriously. A little chaos never hurt anybody.

_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

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Post #: 86

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 7:50:48 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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My thoughts
1-I don't care about what the numbers say. It's my experience that a serious, real male dominant online has no trouble finding partners, if that's what they are about.
2-In the DC area, it generally seems to be about a 50/50 split between the sexes, maybe a few more men, but not lots. Of those, I would wager that the majority who attend munches, play parties etc...are involved in relationships, which is understandable, or are tightly involved in a leather family/group/etc.... I mean, hey, I've talked to lots of chicks and recommended either BESS or Black Rose to more than a few and the majority won't(or don't wanna) go unescorted because of safety worries (unfounded) or because they are worried about getting hit on by strangers and creepoids. And I dunno, I go to munches solo from time to time and it always feels a wee bit creepy, that lone guy sitting in the corner watching everything. And it's kinda sexually frustrating too!
3-This is nothing against nothing or noone, but ya know what? I'm picky bout who I let in my life, who my friends are and who I'm acquainted with...and frankly, there's a whole lotta people in the scene I want nowhere near me or my life. The local BDSM community ain't exactly a hotbed o'mental health. Over the years, there's been waaaaaaaaaay too many social rejects, Magic players, fruitloops and just plain lunatics for me to count. I don't want em in my life, I certainly wouldn't invite em in my house and I most definitely wouldn't ever want to stick any appendages in em and this is coming from a cat who (When younger and prone to making decisions with the little head) had sex with gals I wouldn't share a cup of coffee with.
4-Yeah, I've seen some real idiocy espoused by so called experts from the podium at munches and displays. I sat through a panel a few weeks ago run by a leather family and was just offended by the opinions being generated, to the point I almost stood up and started ranting.

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Post #: 87

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:09:29 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

My husband and I had been married 10 years when we stumbled across BDSM. We wanted to learn more, so started going to munches, dungeons, and private play parties. I wasn't looking for a primary relationship, and don't remember how many singles of any persuasion there were.

My experience with WMPE.org, in western Massachusetts, was that this group was an excellent opportunity for learning and networking. I think it's a good idea for newbies to view some real world interactions. I know my husband was more comfortable flogging me after seeing it demo'd. I was the first woman he'd "hit," lol.

Because I prefer men with lots of technical skills, potentials get major bonus points if they are members of the local community. Who is going to learn how to use a single-tail online? (Shudder.)

After my divorce, I entered my next D/s relationship via a woman who was a guest at the ashram (yoga community) where I lived. How funny is that?!?

All my subsequent D/s relationships have been play only and I've met them on the collarme side. I'm relationship inclined now and open to meeting Him where ever. I've just moved, enjoying being back with my family, and am not rushing it. I'll be getting my own place at the end of the summer and expect my social life to pick up at that time.

The forums here have helped me clarify my relationship goals - thanks ladies for modeling your unwillingness to settle for less than what you need and constant repetition of "don't make someone a priority when he considers you an option!"

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 88

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:14:32 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

As I said, it's your health and it certainly won't be any skin off my hide, but I'd feel a bit more secure interacting with people others know and trust than complete and utter strangers. You can never cut out all the risks but I'm willing to minimize them, it's the same procedure as looking before you cross the road.

I prefer to meet "strangers", get to know them over time, trust my intuition about them, meet their social network, and then decide if I want them to beat the crap outta me... it seems much more prudent than trusting other people's opinions about who gets access to my hide

Just me, etc

_____________________________

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 89

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:14:36 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
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to be fair, someone could seek out private tutoring on singletails, or only participate enough to network and learn some skills and then retreat. just because someone didn't stick with the community doesn't also mean that they learned toy-handling online.

communities do serve the purpose of an ice breaker to new concepts, and i enjoy them for that. i like that you can sit down and talk with someone who is into and good at something you're curious about. i think, as with anything, there's a good and bad side, and people need to be aware that the community can have a lot of helpful attributes, but still shouldn't be considered the end-all, be-all.

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Post #: 90

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:18:59 AM

LadyConstanze

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Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

So you let others dictate how you should perceive a stranger.

Good to know!

Where do you get this BS from? Because I would want to be sure I'm not meeting an unknown and be in a situation that could get ugly? Is jumping to conclusions the only sport you participate in?

But you know, it would be supremely stupid to trust a person with money who's known to not pay it back or who has screwed over several people before, don't you agree? Now a person who has treated several people badly, yeah, I could tell myself that I *might* be the exception and that I am far too special for that to ever happen to me, but I hope I'm not ever going to be so deluded, I rather would proceed with extreme care, now if that is "letting others dictate how I should perceive a stranger" then so be it. Luckily I don't need your approval and I have learned the hard way how much value there is in very careful screening, I hope your learning process won't be too painful.

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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Post #: 91

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:20:12 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

i read a great article about predatory leadership

Do you have a link?

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 92

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:23:35 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Seattle & Vancouver are utterly jacked up. It interest me that we hear so little about the NYC scene.

Seattle? Really? Obviously, "the scene" in a metro area the size of Seattle is a broad term. But what Carol and I got when we moved there was a very warm and gracious welcome by a bunch of pretty decent people managing to maintain long-term happy relationships... many of them poly. For us, "the scene" means MAST.

We have found the same thing here in Victoria... a bunch of really nice people welcoming us warmly. There is no MAST here so we're just gradually mixing into the "regular scene". I'm sure there are parts of it which are "jacked up", but not the parts we've seen so far.

I haven't gotten out out to any Vancouver events yet.

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Post #: 93

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:24:37 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i think what he's saying is that it really doesn't prove anything that a community of people who might be just as bad kicked someone out; as several of us have already said, in some cases, communities are run by the very people who should be kicked out. =p whistle blowers get squashed for daring to speak up against leaders doing shit they don't agree with, or the victims are blamed and cast out while the actual perpetrator skates by. it happens A LOT.
i read a great article about predatory leadership; people who get others to believe that "someone else is the cause of your problems; band with me and i'll make sure they don't hurt you" while BEING the person who is most likely committing the hurt. =p many groups, not just kink ones, suffer from this kind of leadership.

so this idea that groups are going to be 100% free of terror and bad people, because the groups would naturally weed out the bad people is terribly flawed logic.

I am not talking about communities that are "run" by people, I encountered a lot of communities that are fairly loose knit, but a lot of the play parties have staff there who are looking out for the security of people, so if they see somebody doing something that is blatantly dangerous or just wrong (hitting a person in the kidneys or on the spine, not regarding a safe word, playing while being heavily under the influence of alcohol or drugs, etc.) they will step in and stop the scene, if the person violates the rules of conduct a few times, they will be asked to leave and be banned from the venue.

It's simply that the people running the venue don't want accidents there, which lead to negative press and a possible shut down of the venue, it's not political, it has nothing to do with a clique running things, it's simple safety concerns and it makes a lot of sense.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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Post #: 94

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:24:50 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

i read a great article about predatory leadership

Do you have a link?

http://knol.google.com/k/predatory-leadership#

note: this guy has since added an introduction to it explaining that it's a theory in formation, so he's still trying to solidify his message, but in general, i agree with it.

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"Obey your Master." Metallica

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Post #: 95

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 8:48:36 AM

NocturnalStalker

Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

So you let others dictate how you should perceive a stranger.

Good to know!

Where do you get this BS from? Because I would want to be sure I'm not meeting an unknown and be in a situation that could get ugly? Is jumping to conclusions the only sport you participate in?

But you know, it would be supremely stupid to trust a person with money who's known to not pay it back or who has screwed over several people before, don't you agree? Now a person who has treated several people badly, yeah, I could tell myself that I *might* be the exception and that I am far too special for that to ever happen to me, but I hope I'm not ever going to be so deluded, I rather would proceed with extreme care, now if that is "letting others dictate how I should perceive a stranger" then so be it. Luckily I don't need your approval and I have learned the hard way how much value there is in very careful screening, I hope your learning process won't be too painful.

No conclusion to jump to, you did it for me already. You have openly stated that you would trust in what a couple of others say and have that influence your opinion on someone you don't even know or even attempt to know.

My learning process is that I screen myself. That I have confidence in my judgement rather than putting my stock on the word of what someone else claims. If you want to believe what others tell you, go ahead but just be aware that it is pretty silly to do no matter how you look at it. In fact, I don't think you are this dense since I recall in another topic you mentioning that you made an online relationship manage to be a success. Given with what I am reading here, I am tilting my head since by that token you should know better than even me that only you can decide for yourself in the end.

You mention delusion but I don't really think you know what that word means, dear. You can proceed very carefully with someone without needing to be given green-lights by other people.

_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

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Post #: 96

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 9:01:20 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

Little boy, your reading ability leaves a lot to be desired, but never mind, I am sure you spend a lot of time on hair care...

I am sure (and actually very grateful) that I don't have to worry ever crossing your path, I'm sure the local community is also quite happy that you prefer to play with yourself and your computer, after all there is not much you could offer to the community - or anybody else for that matter, unless of course you would share your shampoo and/or conditioner...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)

Post #: 97

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 9:05:30 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

IMO, LadyC. he is an oxygen thief.

He has no real experience (despite his assertations) and bases his opinions on that.

Not worth the time typing about.

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Post #: 98

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 9:13:25 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Where do you get this BS from? Because I would want to be sure I'm not meeting an unknown and be in a situation that could get ugly? Is jumping to conclusions the only sport you participate in?

There must be many more people in your area that are involved with kink than some of us have access too, in other words, you must know a lot of people to be networked to where everyone knows everyone, and you do not have to deal with unknowns.

There have been plenty of threads on how to meet strangers safely, such as meeting in a well traveled public place, parking down the street, not giving TMI to people, etc etc etc.

I really see the process as no different from meeting someone off match.com or eharmony, I would not meet any stranger without taking care not to be put in harm's way, including having two safe calls in place the first time I meet someone so they know where I am, etc.

Like I said, I am not familiar with being in a community so large as to have unlimited knowledge of everyone that might be compatible with me, but I am not into local communities anyways for reasons I have already stated.

I consider myself to be an ethical person with high standards, a good social network, etc.... I figure there are others like me out there who do not attend munches and do not want to, it doesn't make them ax murderers or con artists..

I do agree that for more edgy play a top needs to learn how to administer pain, but most intelligent people know you do not hit someone's spine or their kidneys, and I only date intelligent people.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 99

RE: Why get out to the community? - 6/12/2011 9:50:57 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

I never claimed that it is possible to eliminate all the dangers, but if I can eliminate the people that are KNOWN to cause trouble (and nope, not just one person saying that - you know you'd be surprised how much trouble so called service submissives can cause...) I'm willing to do that. See, if a person has stalked another person or shown dangerous behaviour, it would be stupid to willingly go there!

As for you dating intelligent people, good for you, though psychos aren't always stupid or wear signs around the neck, and you don't learn how to swing a whip online, the community is also there to teach people, so giving something back to the community seems like a fair deal. Now if you meet an intelligent psycho and he seems like the true deal and you're tied up, you haven't picked up the warning signs because he's very intelligent and knows how to play the game, how are you going to stop him once you are tied up?

None of us has mind reading powers, all I am talking about is eliminating SOME dangers, if that can be done I'm happy, why do I need to stick my neck out? You know some of the most charming and charismatic people in history turned out to be mass murderers...

If you don't want to mix with the community, fair dues, nobody forces you, some of us feel they have gotten quite a bit from them and we want to give back and not be selfish pricks... Just my take on it. I can live with that

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 100

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