RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late

RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:12:22 PM)
Wow,I can not believe that there is a necessity to educate two adults on the factual history of Vietnam ,Americas war there and Conkrites role in reporting same...including his famous editorial....where the fuck were you guys in the 60's.....have either of you ever been to The Wall...the evidence of the futility of that conflict is there...it is stark,touching and powerful.Over 58,000 casualties hundreds of thousands civilian casuties.....and nothing at all accomplished.

slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:18:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The McNamara plan was to slowly increase the pressure till the NV and VC gave up. To win we needed a totally different approach. Possibly one that involved bombing real targets in the north not just secondary and tertiary ones. Escalation was dissmissed as an option for a reason...there were other,larger issues going on skippy perhaps you might take the time to educate yourself as to what they were.

BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:29:40 PM)
And Johnson was foolish to think we could wear them out. Still it was not the NV who beat us it was the protesters the media and the frustration.

Aylee -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:37:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats entirely debatable, the war was entirely winnable had the media been behind the war effort. How was it Cronkites to choose Communism for Southeast Asia and death for all those millions who died there under Communist rule? I disagree. De Gaulle told Pres. Kennedy in 61 that 'winning' would not happen. And that they were in for a long war. Gen. Wheller told Pres. Johnson that it would take between 700,000 and 1,000,000 million soldiers and at least 7 years. The ideologies between the peasant Vietnamese and the US, just did not mesh well.

Sanity -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:37:44 PM)
CNN is todays Walter Cronkite But the truth (widely available from millions of sources) effectively drowns their sorry ass excuse for journalism out Thankfully quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Later on Cronkite said that even though it turned out thatwe had won Tet he was very proud of convincing people that we had lost. So his proudest moment was a lie. though to be fair he ma not have known it at the time.

mnottertail -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:39:27 PM)
Thank you for that insightful look from the inside on the vietnam war. you probably should quit now.

Aylee -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:40:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u and nothing at all accomplished. Stopped the spread of communism. That is something. I dislike the idea of gulags.

slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:43:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And Johnson was foolish to think we could wear them out. Still it was not the NV who beat us it was the protesters the media and the frustration. Keep telling yourself that.....don't bother looking at the political decisions.....don't ask yourself why trrops were rotated in and out rather than serving for the duration.....don't wonder why such a system would be in place...a system which ensured that just about the time one learned how to survive in that environment they were rotating back home...to be replaced by green draftees right out of boot camp. Don't ask any questions about that conflict that might threaten your preconceived notion of who to blame for the loss.You seem comfortable in your ignorance.....so don't bother looking further into it.

BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:53:50 PM)
As I said it would have been conducted in an entirely different manner. I stated that it was run by people who didn't know what they were doing. My notions are not preconceived they evolved as the situation developed and changed. That not only doesn't make me ignorant but an observer of the events as hey happened. Are you old enough to know anything about the time other than what an anti war professor told you?

BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:57:18 PM)
I have realised that I have allowed myself to participate in the highjacking of this thread into a debate over Viet Nam I apologize to all participants for my part in this and will try to avoid this in the future.

SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:00:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have realised that I have allowed myself to participate in the highjacking of this thread into a debate over Viet Nam I apologize to all participants for my part in this and will try to avoid this in the future. It was a good discussion and came naturally from the premise of the original post....no harm no foul!

mnottertail -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:00:53 PM)
Yeah, when you think what you say is important, quit thinking. because thought never won or lost Viet Nam, you did. (royal you)

Aylee -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:01:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Keep telling yourself that.....don't bother looking at the political decisions.....don't ask yourself why trrops were rotated in and out rather than serving for the duration.....don't wonder why such a system would be in place...a system which ensured that just about the time one learned how to survive in that environment they were rotating back home...to be replaced by green draftees right out of boot camp.Don't ask any questions about that conflict that might threaten your preconceived notion of who to blame for the loss.You seem comfortable in your ignorance.....so don't bother looking further into it. Look up a guy named Dr. Williams Rivers. His work can answer those questions for you. An answer I thought that everyone knew by this point. Neurasthenia. Craiglockhart is another term to check out. Siegfried Sassoon, 'Mad Jack,' is also interesting. I have seen and endured the sufferings of the troops and I can no longer be a party to prolonging these sufferings for ends which I believe to be evil and unjust. I am not protesting against the conduct of the war, but against the political errors and insincerities for which the fighting men are being sacrificed. Yeah, there were no new feelings. Edited because I hit the 'OK' button before I finished.

BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have realised that I have allowed myself to participate in the highjacking of this thread into a debate over Viet Nam I apologize to all participants for my part in this and will try to avoid this in the future. agreed It was a good discussion and came naturally from the premise of the original post....no harm no foul!

mnottertail -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:07:57 PM)
look up your ass. here is what happened, we are in a war we dont have no business or ideology in, not new in our baliwick. But what we done is void the draft. Now you gotta get motherfuckers 'cuz this actually was the idea' who as good americans wanted to lay down their lives for shitbreathers like you. And that aint never gonna come true. Clowns like me and huntie might do it. but thats just because its our american dream. we aint given anything else to hang our hat on. but by god..........we'ed rather not. It's just how we're built.

slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:20:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD As I said it would have been conducted in an entirely different manner. I stated that it was run by people who didn't know what they were doing. My notions are not preconceived they evolved as the situation developed and changed. That not only doesn't make me ignorant but an observer of the events as hey happened. Are you old enough to know anything about the time other than what an anti war professor told you? Im 53 years old,allow me to make this simple for you,that means I was born in 1959.... It further means that I grew up hearing,yes from Conkrite, just how many US serviceman died in Southeast Asia while I ate my dinner.It Means I was 16 in 1975 when our involvement in Vietnam officially ended. It also means that I am old enough to need to explain to my son why I was weeping like a baby as I walked the Wall in Washington. Of course all you would have needed to do ,to avoid putting your foot in your mouth would have been to look at my profile.....why do I feel you have put as much effort into your education on this matter as you did when making that last post ? Tell me this Bama...is ignorance actually blissful?

mnottertail -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:23:12 PM)
around 58,000 and I was there.

DomKen -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:30:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats entirely debatable, the war was entirely winnable had the media been behind the war effort. How was it Cronkites to choose Communism for Southeast Asia and death for all those millions who died there under Communist rule? Why were they and their freedom worth less than American men. And how is it not bias to play god in such matters... The bottom line is that we need varied sources for news and information, all sides need to be heard and many of the left here and elsewhere would deny us that exchange of ideas if it were theirs to do so. Those here who are pining away for the "good old days" when one or two media figures told us what to think should be seen for what they are Bullocks. Anyone who has studied the sitaution in SE Asia in the late 60's and early 70's can tell you the war was unwinnable for the US. 1) The South Vietnamese regime was hopelessly corrupt and had lost the support of the people. 2) The South Vietnamese Army had terrible morale and professionalism. Very few units woul stand and fight without significant US troop support. 3) US troops were mostly conscripts who wanted nothing to do with the war and were primarily those people who could not find some way to get a deferment. 4) The people of Vietnam were fed up withoutside occupiers whether it be the French or us. 5) The only strategy likely to "win" the war was the invasion and conquest of North Vietnam which was politically and diplomatically nonviable. 6) Our political and military leaders simply never understood the situation on the ground.

slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:31:22 PM)
Aylee...I have to admit your last reply to me left me more than a little confused....care to be a little less cryptic? I mean ,for the life of me I can not connect a poet from WWI to the political decision not to declare a state of war existed...thereby insuring that units would serve together and maintain unit integrity....rather than the pipeline system which was actually in place during the Vietnam conflict. If you can connect those dots for me I would be appreciative....

Aylee -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 8:40:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Aylee...I have to admit your last reply to me left me more than a little confused....care to be a little less cryptic? I mean ,for the life of me I can not connect a poet from WWI to the political decision not to declare a state of war existed...thereby insuring that units would serve together and maintain unit integrity....rather than the pipeline system which was actually in place during the Vietnam conflict. If you can connect those dots for me I would be appreciative.... LOL I was answering WHY the soldiers were rotated. Shell-shock. The work was pioneered by Dr. William Rivers, mostly at Craiglockhart Military Hospital. One of his most famous patients was Sassoon, who wrote, "A Soldier's Declaration," and was treated at Craiglockhart for his 'shell-shock,' that supposedly led to his letter. "Mad Jack" was what he was called by his troops because of the risks he ran during WW I. Essentially, what Rivers found out, was that soldiers could only remain on the front for so long before suffering a breakdown. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail look up your ass. here is what happened, we are in a war we dont have no business or ideology in, not new in our baliwick. But what we done is void the draft. Now you gotta get motherfuckers 'cuz this actually was the idea' who as good americans wanted to lay down their lives for shitbreathers like you. And that aint never gonna come true. Clowns like me and huntie might do it. but thats just because its our american dream. we aint given anything else to hang our hat on. but by god..........we'ed rather not. It's just how we're built. I am confused. Are we talking about Vietnam or our current wars and military actions? If it makes any difference, yes I am former military. So, I am not really sure if that last is supposed to be directed at me.

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