RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 5:41:22 PM)

I think people who go around expecting a bias-free world are either hopelessly naive or exhibiting faux-outrage at the idea.

Here's the real thing. Rather than attacking the reporter, point out the factual errors in their reports.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 5:42:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I wasted two hours of my life watching it when it was first broadcast, I have no need to do it again.


And yet, you just dismiss it without even an argument as to why it is invalid... um, okay, I do not roll that way.... but whatever gets you through life intellectually speaking


I dismiss it because it was Chomsky's vile form of liberalism and anti-corporatism when I first saw it. Thats why its invalid. There is nothing lacking in that "intellecutally speaking".

If you come up with something new of his to critique that you think is so fucking awesome Id be happy to rip that to shreds, but I have no interest in rewatching something I have already concluded is garbage, on a topic where there are legitimate studies.




juliaoceania -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 5:43:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think people who go around expecting a bias-free world are either hopelessly naive or exhibiting faux-outrage at the idea.

Here's the real thing. Rather than attacking the reporter, point out the factual errors in their reports.



This is something they cannot do... better to go around screaming hyperbolically that there is some liberal media conspiracy.




SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 5:43:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


One thing that is said about Cronkite was that his personal views were what really and truly ended the Vietnam war.

The bias was there, there just werent any bloggers working to uncover it, or any competition willing to publish, say, JFKs relationship with Marylin Monroe and his alleged connection with her death

I forget which network it was that put the heat on Nixon during the Kennedy / Nixon debate, causing Nixon to sweat so profusely that it may have cost him that race

There are many interesting tidbits of media bias out there, for those whose minds are open enough to acknowledge their existence


Opposition to the rather ugly and repulsive Vietnam War, didn't necessarily make him biased...doesn't make him some sort of leftist either....made him sensible....




Sanity -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 5:59:27 PM)


And what if they were socialist views that were the basis for Cronkites antiwar bias?

Whether he was a communist sympathizer or not, bias is bias and a journalist shouldnt allow his or her bias to skew reporting. In Cronkites case his bias arguably lead to death and the inhumane treatment of millions of Southeast Asians...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Opposition to the rather ugly and repulsive Vietnam War, didn't necessarily make him biased...doesn't make him some sort of leftist either....made him sensible....




farglebargle -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:05:47 PM)

quote:

In Cronkites case his bias arguably lead to death and the inhumane treatment of millions of Southeast Asians...


I'd love to hear this argument.

quote:



Tonight, back in more familiar surroundings in New York, we'd like to sum up our findings in Vietnam, an analysis that must be speculative, personal, subjective. Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities? I'm not sure.

The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we. The referees of history may make it a draw. Another standoff may be coming in the big battles expected south of the Demilitarized Zone. Khesanh could well fall, with a terrible loss in American lives, prestige and morale, and this is a tragedy of our stubbornness there; but the bastion no longer is a key to the rest of the northern regions, and it is doubtful that the American forces can be defeated across the breadth of the DMZ with any substantial loss of ground. Another standoff.

On the political front, past performance gives no confidence that the Vietnamese government can cope with its problems, now compounded by the attack on the cities. It may not fall, it may hold on, but it probably won't show the dynamic qualities demanded of this young nation. Another standoff.

We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds. They may be right, that Hanoi's winter-spring offensive has been forced by the Communist realization that they could not win the longer war of attrition, and that the Communists hope that any success in the offensive will improve their position for eventual negotiations. It would improve their position, and it would also require our realization, that we should have had all along, that any negotiations must be that -- negotiations, not the dictation of peace terms.

For it seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate. This summer's almost certain standoff will either end in real give-and-take negotiations or terrible escalation; and for every means we have to escalate, the enemy can match us, and that applies to invasion of the North, the use of nuclear weapons, or the mere commitment of one hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred thousand more American troops to the battle. And with each escalation, the world comes closer to the brink of cosmic disaster.

To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy's intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations.

But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.

This is Walter Cronkite. Good night.





slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:06:46 PM)

Oh good god sanity,are you suggesting that absent Conkrites anti-war editorials,which as I detailed in an earlier report were not voiced till after Tet...when all he did was speak the truth..the war was unwinnable given the political situation and the countries lack of commitment to the effort.Now please explain to the class how the opinion of one newsman...even one as trusted as Conkrites was the basis for us getting out of that quagmire ?




Sanity -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:08:16 PM)


How ironic, coming from the crowd that would like nothing better than to shut down all media that doesnt tow the far left idealogue line... [:D]

How many anti FOX NEWS threads have there been, vs. CNN threads?

Just once I would like to see a leftist post something similar in one of the hundreds of FOX NEWS threads

Just once...

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think people who go around expecting a bias-free world are either hopelessly naive or exhibiting faux-outrage at the idea.

Here's the real thing. Rather than attacking the reporter, point out the factual errors in their reports.



This is something they cannot do... better to go around screaming hyperbolically that there is some liberal media conspiracy.




farglebargle -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:12:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


How ironic, coming from the crowd that would like nothing better than to shut down all media that doesnt tow the far left idealogue line... [:D]


Did you actually READ the relevant part of my .sig before replying? Perhaps you should, and do some research into the historical background behind it.




slvemike4u -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:13:18 PM)

Thanks fargle....perhaps that will placate the hysterical blatherings of our resident idiot.
Communist sympathizer......lol.




SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:14:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And what if they were socialist views that were the basis for Cronkites antiwar bias?

Whether he was a communist sympathizer or not, bias is bias and a journalist shouldnt allow his or her bias to skew reporting. In Cronkites case his bias arguably lead to death and the inhumane treatment of millions of Southeast Asians...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Opposition to the rather ugly and repulsive Vietnam War, didn't necessarily make him biased...doesn't make him some sort of leftist either....made him sensible....


and might have saved another 100,000 Americans who didn't belong there....it wasn't a right or left issue...it was a reality issue...




juliaoceania -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:15:29 PM)

quote:

I dismiss it because it was Chomsky's vile form of liberalism and anti-corporatism when I first saw it. Thats why its invalid. There is nothing lacking in that "intellecutally speaking".

If you come up with something new of his to critique that you think is so fucking awesome Id be happy to rip that to shreds, but I have no interest in rewatching something I have already concluded is garbage, on a topic where there are legitimate studies.


That comment does not surprise me coming from you...


It is the intellectual equivalent of dismissing trickle down economics with no reasons to support dismissing it, just because the people advocating it were pro corporation...




Sanity -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:30:19 PM)


Thats entirely debatable, the war was entirely winnable had the media been behind the war effort. How was  it Cronkites to choose Communism for Southeast Asia and death for all those millions who died there under Communist rule?

Why were they and their freedom worth less than American men.

And how is it not bias to play god in such matters...

The bottom line is that we need varied sources for news and information, all sides need to be heard and many of the left here and elsewhere would deny us that exchange of ideas if it were theirs to do so. Those here who are pining away for the "good old days" when one or two media figures told us what to think should be seen for what they are

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

and might have saved another 100,000 Americans who didn't belong there....it wasn't a right or left issue...it was a reality issue...




farglebargle -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:42:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thats entirely debatable, the war was entirely winnable had the media been behind the war effort. How was  it Cronkites to choose Communism for Southeast Asia and death for all those millions who died there under Communist rule?

Why were they and their freedom worth less than American men.

And how is it not bias to play god in such matters...

The bottom line is that we need varied sources for news and information, all sides need to be heard and many of the left here and elsewhere would deny us that exchange of ideas if it were theirs to do so. Those here who are pining away for the "good old days" when one or two media figures told us what to think should be seen for what they are

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

and might have saved another 100,000 Americans who didn't belong there....it wasn't a right or left issue...it was a reality issue...



Cronkite's EDITORIAL wasn't NEWS. It was opinion. His opinion and rightly disclosed at the beginning of it.

That may be one of the biggest issues today, the unclear demarcation between "NEWS", "OPINION" and "NEWSERTAINMENT". Flip on $FAVOURITE_CHANNEL, and at any moment, can you tell what mode they're in and in what context you should be considering the current presentation?




SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:47:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thats entirely debatable, the war was entirely winnable had the media been behind the war effort. How was  it Cronkites to choose Communism for Southeast Asia and death for all those millions who died there under Communist rule?

Why were they and their freedom worth less than American men.

And how is it not bias to play god in such matters...

The bottom line is that we need varied sources for news and information, all sides need to be heard and many of the left here and elsewhere would deny us that exchange of ideas if it were theirs to do so. Those here who are pining away for the "good old days" when one or two media figures told us what to think should be seen for what they are

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

and might have saved another 100,000 Americans who didn't belong there....it wasn't a right or left issue...it was a reality issue...


We won every battle but Tet and even that we turned...we could NEVER have won the war....
Start with Caputo's A Rumor of War.....finish with Neil Sheehan's A Bright Shining Lie....then tell me all about it...for historical reference try Bernard Fall's Street Without Joy....then get back to me with the war could be won....if you need more to read let me know...I've read them all....had a brother that was Lt JG, and an uncle who was one of the most decorated soldiers to serve there...I will let them post for you as well....never lost a battle....could never win the war....




BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:53:45 PM)

We won Tet.




SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:56:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

We won Tet.

I said "even that we turned"...




BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 6:59:31 PM)

Later on Cronkite said that even though it turned out thatwe had won Tet he was very proud of convincing people that we had lost.  So his proudest moment was a lie. though to be fair he ma not have known it at the time.




BamaD -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:04:03 PM)

The McNamara plan was to slowly increase the pressure till the NV and VC gave up.  To win we needed a totally different approach. Possibly one that involved bombing real targets in the north not just secondary and tertiary ones.  




SilverMark -> RE: CNN tries to hide its bias, but too late (6/14/2011 7:08:49 PM)

tough to fight an enemy with a thousand year history of fighting on their own turf, and not much concern for the lives of those who fight for them....




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