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Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 8:27:21 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Over the years, I have seen the opinion expressed that if the master/dominant (pick your label) requires the slave/submissive to ask permission for various things then the dominant has to make themselves available to grant that permission or have a scenario in place in case they can't answer.

For the sake of clarity, lets assume that the permissions are not required for needs, so the s-type is not physically, mentally or emotionally at risk with the permission not being granted.

If the s-type asks permission for something, is the d-type expected/required to answer? What if he doesn't answer or is too busy?


Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 8:46:15 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		do I need to answer this OP???... mmmmmmmmm this is a tough one!

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 8:52:29 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		I would say it is pretty much the same answer we give about unanswered emails on the other side. No answer is an answer.

Before I go any further, just to make myself clear, I'm going to use the word "restricted" to refer to things that need permission as opposed to things that are prohibited.

There's very few things I have to get permission to do, but if I ask and don't get an answer, I haven't gotten permission. I just wait, or go about my way, depending on the situation. Sometimes I really would like an answer though, but my wanting an answer doesn't compel Hanners to give one.

I do think, however, that if a dominant has a lot of restricted categories, then he/she should expect to get a lot of requests. he/she still isn't required to give a definitive answer, but they certainly shouldn't complain about getting asked.

Now just to forestall anybody asking about some totally unforeseen circumstance where my life or safety is in question, or some other emergency. Well in those situations I would do what I deemed necessary and if that involved doing something restricted that I hadn't received permission for (or even something prohibited), then I would still do it, and trust that Hanners would understand when I could explain things.

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:02:26 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am not talking about what should be for others, just talking about how I would feel for me in that situation


quote:

If the s-type asks permission for something, is the d-type expected/required to answer?

No, although I can imagine if I was in a relationship where he was unresponsive to requests that I would begin to feel neglected and dissatisfied in such a relationship.

quote:

What if he doesn't answer or is too busy?


I can imagine situations in which it might be more pressing than others to get an answer, especially if I was waiting on permission to go someplace with someone else, perhaps a family member who did not understand why I had to wait for permission.... or if I was out with a family member who wanted to do something that I needed permission to do. I would feel frustrated about it, but if I agreed to those rules I suppose I would have to live up to them.

I wouldn't be in that situation personally, because micromanagement is not for me. I am the type of person that seeks someone who likes to make the bigger decisions for us, like where we should live, how we should live, etc.... not whether or not I have a soda, for example. I am pretty good at regulating my own behavior in those ways.

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:09:24 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
Where I come from, part of being "in charge" is making oneself available to answer questions.  The answer need not be instantaneous, but it should happen in a timely fashion, not merely at one's whim.  If one doesn't wish to take responsibility for answering the attendant questions, then one shouldn't establish a dynamic that includes micromanagement. 

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:10:06 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		There are things I have to ask for permission. If he doesn't answer or is busy or isn't able to give an answer for whatever reason then I make the decision based on the information before me and hope like hell I choose the correct one. If not then I'll either catch hell for my choice, be told I made the correct choice or be lectured and disciplined for it. No matter what it's his choice. I don't get angry or upset over it and I don't always expect an answer. We're both human and we both sometimes get too busy to be able to respond to each other. Life happens. We accept it and move on.



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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:12:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If he doesn't answer, then I use my best judgment.
However, by now I'm pretty adept at knowing what he would want me to do.

But yes, in general, if you set it up that someone has to ask permission then you need to be able to answer. And if you're out of touch, then you need to set up guidelines that covers that scenario.


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:14:12 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		This is being owned *beginners*, correct?

If I get no answer..... the supposition is that NOTHING is granted.

I must thirst or starve, and he is hideously mean for being out of signal range, busy teaching, selfishly grabbing a coffee between meetings or disinclined to answer a text wishing for something that we both know I'll survive without.

Plus, he also should have contingencies for my insignificant desires. I should be able to disrupt his classes..... Who does he think he is?? Making me wait to know whether or not I can.......have a packet of peanuts :(

Seriously.......I'm not to lend anyone money without permission (over £50)......(Ok, I have lent people money, call me naive or a soft touch, whatever, I can only but admit that)..

BUT......if I have to bung a few quid my daughter's way in a *Damn, why didn't you tell me earlier* situation, he's not going to get all *nasty* on me. He'd see it as perfectly understandable. ( Situation..I'm her carer) If I gave anyone else that money, he'd grill me pink.

Situation and circumstances are all.

agirl

So...


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:21:35 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I expect him to answer at some point, because of the precedent set.  He might not answer right away, he might not even answer today (feeling Dr. Suess'ish all of a sudden).  It just depends on what I'm asking for.

For what is deemed "the little things," it's really circumstantial, and often times he thinks ahead for us enough to let me know his expectation of me in a given situation.  For example, he rarely turns his AC on, and I can't stand the heat.  When I'm at his house and he's at work, there's an understanding that I can turn the AC on, to a particular temperature.  However, before we realized this might be an issue, I was roasting while cleaning his house (exaggerated but damn it was hot), I couldn't reach him, so I turned on the AC.  When he called me later I said I had turned it on.

For things like, ""Can I have another cat?" No answer means no, until he says yes (he hasn't said yes yet). 

We're pretty much at the point where I know whether or not he'd approve something, so if I can't reach him I go with what I think he'd instruct, and he's ok with that.  If my best judgment is not what he'd have had me do, he corrects that thinking for the future.  He's not so interested in managing the smaller details as he is the overall picture.  So if I mess up a small detail, we see it as a learning experience.

Now if I said I quit my job - hey I texted you but you didn't answer right away so I took it upon myself...that would be another story.

Not sure if that was clear. My thoughts are kind of jumbled at the moment.


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:24:00 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		It depends on the situation, Its if something that can wait for an answer Im find with waiting, but if its something that cant, then well Maybe he shouldnt put restrictions on things he cant follow through with. If your going to say you need permission to do X, then you as the Dom damn well better make sure your around to answer, regardless of when I ask. Why? You feel the need to control this area of my life... then be around to control it.

One of the main things i see an issue with if this were to be a dynamic id get involved with is the shift I work. Most of my "permission asking" would be while hes fast asleep and in lala land. And frankly im not going to give up the chance at making over time because hes a sleep or didnt notice a text message when he woke up.


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:25:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

If he doesn't answer, then I use my best judgment.
However, by now I'm pretty adept at knowing what he would want me to do.


I think most of us get a feel for what our partner will get really upset about and what they won't after the relationship is established. It becomes easier to know what is okay and what isn't as time goes on. I think that is why M/s relationships can get easier in time, from reading people who have been doing it for years... its knowing each other, really.

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:37:55 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		....is that seriously seen as micromanagement? I've never seen any of this as such.

I've never had to put off doing anything with anyone else, I've never had to alter any plans I've made, unexpectedly ( there's always been time to adjust them).

I actually seem to live*almost* perfectly contentedly with this repressive regime:)

Ok, wrenching my tongue out of my cheek...getting *permission* simply isn't that restrictive.......unless it is. No I can't buy a take-away as and when, well, GOOD for him..I'm not even going to add up how grateful I am for THAT little beauty.

No I can't lend more than £50..and in some cases I can't lend anything at all. Again, I'm not going to quantify how useful that *restriction* has been.

That's all there to help.....not hinder. It makes sense to me. NOT being able to do innocuous stuff such as having lunch with my Mum, would NOT make sense to me.

I'm always a little mystified why people think that being ownd in such a way points toward uncomfortable and unwanted restrictions that have little benefit.

agirl











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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:42:16 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		See, it's not about physical, mental or emotional needs........ How much else cannot stand waiting for?

agirl


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:45:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

For what is deemed "the little things," it's really circumstantial, and often times he thinks ahead for us enough to let me know his expectation of me in a given situation.  For example, he rarely turns his AC on, and I can't stand the heat.  When I'm at his house and he's at work, there's an understanding that I can turn the AC on, to a particular temperature.  However, before we realized this might be an issue, I was roasting while cleaning his house (exaggerated but damn it was hot), I couldn't reach him, so I turned on the AC.  When he called me later I said I had turned it on.


Temperature used to be a big deal between me and my last dom too, he was a real stickler about using too much fossil fuel ( he practiced what he preached, I will give him that), and sometimes I felt like I was just going to freeze my ass off. If I was relaxing we had a down throw. I asked twice if I could turn on the heater, and I never turned it on unless I asked (I would bake stuff instead...lol)



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:53:34 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		The heat makes me grumpy.  It was 104 today.  He keeps his house in the 80s and I can't stand it. I'm allowed to put it to 78 without having to ask about it now.

Things that cost him money, though, I ask before doing, and no answer means no unless advised otherwise later.  So I don't order movies on TV, things like that.

Some things, like asking him to have a conversation with his daughter about a topic that came up, take time. I asked through an email and didn't expect he'd answer until he got to the email and had time to think about it.  Nor did I ask him, "Did you read my email yet???" LOL.  I sent it, and dropped it.  A few days later he responded.  (Email is for the stuff we want to relay to each other that isn't urgent, but we might forget if we wait until a good time to talk.)


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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:54:55 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

This is being owned *beginners*, correct?

If I get no answer..... the supposition is that NOTHING is granted.

I must thirst or starve, and he is hideously mean for being out of signal range, busy teaching, selfishly grabbing a coffee between meetings or disinclined to answer a text wishing for something that we both know I'll survive without.

Plus, he also should have contingencies for my insignificant desires. I should be able to disrupt his classes..... Who does he think he is?? Making me wait to know whether or not I can.......have a packet of peanuts :(


these Masters should be hung upside down and beatend till their brains fall out... How dare they not be at the beck and call of their s-type!!!

quote:


Seriously.......


what you where not serious???? shit I hate it when the s-type changes directions like that!!!!!



But... with regards to the OP.....

I think the important thing is to note the distinctions between things required out of need for one's immediate well-being and those for one's gratifications.

I have established some pretty clear requirements to the girls that they are to protet their immediate well-being at all costs. They do not need my permission or even to pass it by me on these issues because such decisions have to be made immediately.

however, their on occassion decisions for their well-being have to be made but it's not immediate. If they don't have the protocals for the give situation they will wait for me... Up until the time that it becomes an immediate need or they get my answer.

but those questions that are about their comforts and gratifications..... They wait or follow the established protocals that over the situation. IE.... my girls are not allow to have junk food without permission. I have no standard protocal for them to follow if they desire to have such. They have no choice but to ask me for permission and if they can't get a hold of me... well they have none! It's really that simple. But, I have estalished temporary protocal for Alandra when she went to Europe last April with regards to junk food which lasted until she returned.

Now when they call...sometimes I will answer.... if it's an immediate need or emergency.. they will all me immediately after the second call. I know if for whatever reason I didn't answer the first call that the second one is an emergency. I know I know... shame on me for not answering the first call... but man... I really like to take a shit without talking on the phone.. it might be your kink... but it's not mine!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/21/2011 9:55:25 PM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:57:43 PM   
avena


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		In general, my answer to this would be "it depends". It depends on the situation. It depends on what's being asked. It depends on the people involved. But I will say that if I'm being required to ask permission for something, then it better be well established beforehand what my options are in the event of a non-answer.

In my relationship with D, he tends to specify when there's something I need to ask permission for, and it's usually only for a set period of time. For example, he prefers me in heels. The last visit, he had to work part of the time I was there, so I he wasn't there to make sure I actually wore my heels like I'm supposed to (confession time - I have a really bad habit of just slipping into bare feet without even thinking about it, and therefore not asking. Eventually the connection will be made between my sore backside and my feet...I swear!!). The days that he was working, I had to text him to ask permission to take my heels off, and I had to specify my reasons for wanting them off in the text. If he didn't answer within 15 minutes, I was to go ahead and take my heels off, but I was also required to text him each time I put my heels back on. It gave him a full chronology of my day, via text. But it was only for a set period of time - one day, and then things went back to normal.

Normal, for us, is if he's present, I ask. If he's not, I make my best judgement and inform him of my choice. If he doesn't agree, he corrects, and we move on. But in reality, there are only a few things that I do need to ask permission for. The other situations are automatic yes (sustenance, safety, anything relating to my daughter, etc), automatic no (anything directly against the rules he's laid out), or just plain old common sense. But that's my relationship...and my two cents

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 9:58:12 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The heat makes me grumpy.  It was 104 today.  He keeps his house in the 80s and I can't stand it. I'm allowed to put it to 78 without having to ask about it now.


Now I get to do the deciding, my thermostat is set at a wonderful 76, and it is still 98 outside right now....was 104.... at the ocean it was never hot enough to sweat it (hey, I am allowed my stupid puns...lol)

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 10:20:45 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		The most challenging thing we had to resolve when I moved in was temperature in the house. I can't stand the heat, so it was a real bonus to move to northern Canada. It was the first day of summer and our high was 72 degrees and we had over 19 hours of daylight. In fact, it is after 11 and it is still light outside.

As he has already mentioned, if Alandra and I are required to have his permission and he is not available to give it, then we don't have permission. There is also no expectation on our part that he will make himself available so we can ask permission. This does not include things that are an immediate need for our well-being. But for everything else, he will answer when it is convenient for him and not based on our whims.

I am starting to see why some might avoid this type of control when it comes with additional expectations.

Knight's Kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Seeking Permissions - 6/21/2011 10:29:23 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
these Masters should be hung upside down and beatend till their brains fall out... How dare they not be at the beck and call of their s-type!!!


Its not that they are at the beck and call of their submissives its more, You the dominant are demanding this control over the submissives life, YOU not the submissive, shes doing her job as YOUR sub to follow YOUR rules. YOU put YOURSELF in this situation not anyone but YOU...

In my case it wouldnt work because of the shift I work I work 12 am to 8 am, when most people are asleep, If i need to get a soda because im falling asleep on my shift, im not going to wait for you to wake up. If my boss says Your working till 10 today Im working till 10 that day, unless i have reason to not work such as class or a Doctors appointment.

If you want the control its your responsibility to maintain the control If you dont want the responsibility of the control, dont request the control. If you dont want her being upset or feel like your not living up to your end of the agreement, then be a responsible Dominant and respond as necessary, In a timely fashion... Or remove the restrictions that require you the additional work.

Im expected to respond to the Owner of the house I belong to when He calls or gets in contact of me regardless of what im doing, regardless of how busy I am. And I answer as I'm supposed to, even if its to say, Im doing X can i call you back.

If i call him Hes expected to pick up the phone regardless of what hes doing. Why because i only call when I have need for His advise or response. Hes not at my beck and call, he set rules and he understands that by setting them theres now a requirement on his part to respond.


_____________________________

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
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