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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 4:59:34 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Does the word over-reaction mean anything to you?

Someone made an accurate statement, and you've been huffing and puffing since. No one's recoiling in horror, and no one's even disputing your point about conjecture and an Internet forum. Nor is anyone requiring scholarship--just pointing out that your characterization of linking to supporting data is nowhere near the arduous task you're portraying.

Maybe switch to decaf.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:00:11 PM   
Owner59


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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:10:05 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

This statement screams of irony!


Screaming of irony, coming from someone with the stink of bullshit on them is in essence a compliment.... Thank you


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:14:09 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Does the word over-reaction mean anything to you?

Someone made an accurate statement, and you've been huffing and puffing since. No one's recoiling in horror, and no one's even disputing your point about conjecture and an Internet forum. Nor is anyone requiring scholarship--just pointing out that your characterization of linking to supporting data is nowhere near the arduous task you're portraying.

Maybe switch to decaf.


Of course I'm going to try to one-up someone that debates me/calls me out. It's the nature of a natural dominant. Why do you think you're continuing to address this subject too?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:16:49 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

This statement screams of irony!


Screaming of irony, coming from someone with the stink of bullshit on them is in essence a compliment.... Thank you



Isn't this conjecture? And by the way... you're welcome! :)

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:20:24 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Of course I'm going to try to one-up someone that debates me/calls me out. It's the nature of a natural dominant.


Ah...we really disagree there. I don't see a "natural dominant" as so blindly reactive.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:22:05 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Of course I'm going to try to one-up someone that debates me/calls me out. It's the nature of a natural dominant.


Ah...we really disagree there. I don't see a "natural dominant" as so blindly reactive.


reactive...yes. blind...no.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:27:56 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well let's see...you took a few observations, points you even acknowledged as true, and construed them into "someone calling you out."

You must get into a LOT of arguments. Over-reacting isn't a quality I value. I don't have to attend every argument to which I'm invited. And I don't have to invent them where they don't exist.

Leaves me more time and energy for the ones I choose. I don't choose to let others manipulate my endeavors. That's really the difference between dominant and merely arrogant. But it's a distinction often ignored, especially on the Internet.

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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 5:53:12 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


Of course I'm going to try to one-up someone that debates me/calls me out. It's the nature of a natural dominant. Why do you think you're continuing to address this subject too?


Calling you out... nah kid, some people just find it totally pompous that isn't even old enough to watch their kids wants to tell us where it's at... 'natural dominant' ...
Let my son get that for ya, he's a 'natural dominant'

Why not this tactic for gaining acceptance among those you wish to earn the distinction of peer with... if you're conservative, explain how the conservatives think, if you're neutral, back your observations with something besides your learned opinion, especially when your trying to make inferences you have some doctoral understanding of what liberals are thinking. And while I won't speak for them, I am sure conservatives would like you to have data when you speak of their failure to bring a candidate to the foreground who can win.
   Do that and someday you'll hit fetish night in Cambridge and maybe somebody'll recognize you and offer a hearty handshake.
Nobody WANTS to piss on your 'natural dominance' but talking about people with regard to their political beliefs and current attitude like a doctor reading someone's temperature BEGS for a good piss.



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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 6:12:01 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

poor poor lil liberals... all sad by o'dumbo now. Hey, it's YOUR hope and change baby. Quit voting for prom kings and start voting for a freaking president in the future, ok?


Your picture makes you look like your dentures aren't in.
The best thing of all about a country like ours?
It's that I don't have to take the ravings and "orders" from some cranky old fuck they left out in the desert-grade UV for too long.



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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 6:19:53 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Well let's see...you took a few observations, points you even acknowledged as true, and construed them into "someone calling you out."


Correct. I pointed out that its ironic to call someone out when that person suffers from the exact same thing. Then you interjected. Of course I'm going to respond. Wouldn't you?

quote:


You must get into a LOT of arguments.


No, not really. I'm rather laid-back; probably much more so than most of the fellas here. In person, I always debate (or to be more accurate, engage in a dialectic) using a Socratic Method.

quote:


Over-reacting isn't a quality I value.


It's okay MM, I know that you love me dearly, but I don't think we'd make a very good couple.

quote:


I don't have to attend every argument to which I'm invited. And I don't have to invent them where they don't exist. Leaves me more time and energy for the ones I choose. I don't choose to let others manipulate my endeavors.


Why are you continuing to respond to me then? Re-read this stanza, and tell me that it doesn't apply to you at this current moment.

quote:


That's really the difference between dominant and merely arrogant. But it's a distinction often ignored, especially on the Internet.


No one is being arrogant here. Not you, not me. Just two stubborn people with too much time on their hands on a Saturday night trying to one-up one another.


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 6:32:41 PM   
imperatrixx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine
Of course I'm going to try to one-up someone that debates me/calls me out. It's the nature of a natural dominant. Why do you think you're continuing to address this subject too?


The best way to one up someone in a debate is to cite a factual source that proves them wrong.

I think the nature of a natural dominant would be to find effective solutions, not just to keep yelling and hope that somehow he might end up with results.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 6:38:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		FR
Sure a lot of leberals are disappointed with Obama. He hasn't exactly gone for our agenda in a big way.

However the thing the cons need to remember is we learned our lesson in 2000. No more protest votes and no more staying home.

SCOTUS is one appointement from overturning Roe and Grisowld. So the feminists will turn out, don't be shocked when Obama wins amongst suburban white women by a big margin.

The GOP will nominate Romney, the leveraged buyout and layoffs guy, or a crazy RR type, Bachman, Perry or Palin. So the traditional liberal types will be quite energized to vote against the GOP. The republican candidate will lose all the major urban centers.

Seniors and those approaching retirement won't soon forget who was messing with Medicare. I'd expect a close one here but it will be enough to make Arizona and Florida competitive.

Minority voters have memories too. The various code words and dog whistles coming out of cons mouths the last 3 years will send many to the polls. Depending on who is the GOP nominee this situation could put Texas in play for the first time in a generation.

I expect a not even close electoral college map.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 7:47:32 PM   
subrob1967


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Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

I see quite a few posts here laughing about how liberals are disappointed or disillusioned with Obama, and how that's going to ensure Republican victory in 2012.

The thing is though, I think most of the disappointment from people who voted for him is due to the fact that he isn't liberal enough. I don't understand how someone who voted for Obama is suddenly going to turn around and vote for the clusterfuck of GOP potentials making anti-abortion pledges or who claim to want "small government" that bans gay marriage and abortion.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So in other words sub rob and popeye completely missed the point of the post.A point ,In case there is doubt,I agree with completely....there are huge numbers of folks who have been,for ack of a better word,disappointed by this President....I was at the inauguration,the first one I have ever attended....the sense of history in the making was palpable.My hopes for a new dawn,would seem today to be evidence of my having drank the koll-aid.
Now here we are 2 1/2 years in to his first term and I am no longer jumping for joy....I have,once again ,been taught a lesson about American politics....politicians willing to lead from the front,to get out in front of public opinion are rare indeed....so yes count me as disappointed
Now let's look at the point popeye and sub rob just can't grasp...I and a great majority of those who voted in 2008 and are now disillusioned are feeling so not because we have all of a sudden realized he is too liberal....we are disappointed because he is not liberal enough,cause he acted like a politician where healthcare is concerned...rather than a great leader.He hose the middle road rather than chance raising the volume on the retoric and jamming single payer thru.
The way I see it the only worry Obama should have where those disillusioned voters are concerned is whether or not they will stay home this time out...they certainly are not going to vote for Bachmann...or Romney...and he'll would freeze over before they vote for a Gingrich or a Huntsman...or anyone else silly enough to sign a pro-life pledge during the nomination proccess.
So the way I see it ....it comes down to Obama's ability this time out to energize the voters and inspire them to actually vote...perhaps the simple knowledge that he will be running in his last election and no longer needs worry about facing the voters can free him to be the President I thought I saw take the oath.


Nope, it's you who missed her point, as usual... Her OP isn't about disillusioned liberals, it's about disillusioned Obama voters, a lot of which are Independents.


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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 8:04:30 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Nope, it's you who missed her point, as usual... Her OP isn't about disillusioned liberals, it's about disillusioned Obama voters, a lot of which are Independents.


Actually, she discussed liberals in their various flavors and I thought covered the spectrum pretty well. I think it's possible you're reading something into her post. Like possibly making an assumption she's bringing up independents because you have a picture in your mind of them being a larger percentage of the voters being lumped in with liberals perhaps?
   She was definitely addressing the GOP analysis of liberals feeling some mythic sticker shock... it's one of their big selling points these days along with suddenly being in love with gay marriage. I haven't seen a less confident, more poker playing GOP field since Bob Dole challenged Bill Clinton



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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 8:17:43 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The difference isnt in WHO they will vote for but WHETHER they will vote at all. The disenchanted tend to stay away.


That's it in a nutshell. I made the mistake of voting for Obama once, but there's no chance in hell I'll get fooled again. The man was born to be a Senator, not a President. He's a weak, vain, insecure man who is sorely lacking in leadership qualities; afraid to fight for what he believes in (or says he believes in) because he's worried that people might not like him. I'm sitting out 2012, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 7/2/2011 8:56:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 8:52:33 PM   
imperatrixx


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Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Actually, she discussed liberals in their various flavors and I thought covered the spectrum pretty well. I think it's possible you're reading something into her post. Like possibly making an assumption she's bringing up independents because you have a picture in your mind of them being a larger percentage of the voters being lumped in with liberals perhaps?
   She was definitely addressing the GOP analysis of liberals feeling some mythic sticker shock... it's one of their big selling points these days along with suddenly being in love with gay marriage. I haven't seen a less confident, more poker playing GOP field since Bob Dole challenged Bill Clinton


Yeah, my OP was about the liberals.

Though I will say, moderates and independents are more likely to be scared away from the current GOP candidates than enticed to vote for them. Obama's policies have been fairly moderate, whether successful or not. I think the GOP's biggest mistake so far is to focus on super conservative/religious right candidates, but maybe I'm out of touch with most Americans...maybe they want their laws influenced by Christian theocratic ideals.

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RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 9:24:04 PM   
ClassIsInSession


Posts: 305
Joined: 7/26/2010
Status: offline 		It's interesting to me how the use of terms liberal, conservative and the like get so much more play than actual ideology.

It seems to me that the economy and jobs are vital to our future. It also seems to me that historically, those who tax, over regulate or otherwise interfere with the free market system, or those who deviously load the dice in it, are the source of economic troubles. See I don't like the "everyone should work for the government" ideology but I don't like the "you can be rich if you're in the good ole' boy club" ideology either. Free enterprise should be truly free. This makes me avoid candidates in any office who like things like NAFTA, TAFTA, the WTO or other subsidized agreements, because, let's face it, that's rigging the game. But then I don't like candidates that bail out businesses that are run into the ground by people who clearly shouldn't be making executive decisions either.

Most people fail to realize the incredible power we have with a voting mechanism called the dollar. Case in point, Blockbuster video tanked, yes they went bankrupt, and it's because they started playing around with unethical late fee charges, then when they started taking a hit from healthy competition (red box and NetFlix) they again made an error in judgement and quit having single day rentals. People quit shopping with them, and they failed. No bail outs. As it should be. Now they got bought by DirectTV I believe, and they brought back single day rentals and they are rebuilding goodwill by giving away free 1.99 rentals all weekend. This is consumer based regulation at its finest.

So based on that proven model in very recent history, if we want goods manufactured in America, we should buy good made in America and stop buying Chinese goods. This causes companies to start building and manufacturing in the U.S. again, and we see job creation. Nothing complicated about it, until we start over regulating and using subsidies to skew the odds.

I like peace time. Wars cost too much, they kill our children and they are usually motivated for reasons other than what we are told. I'd like to see them end altogether. That doesn't mean I'll not strike back if I'm attacked, but it does mean if someone else is fighting and it doesn't really concern me or mine...I stay the hell out of it. Bush led us into Iraq and Afghanistan, now Obama leads us into Libya....I don't like either's position. Let's quit policing the world and keep our troops home so they can respond to real threats if need be.

Social agendas are typically private. Gay marriage...why shouldn't they be allowed to? It's ridiculous to deny people the legal right to cohabitate, share assets or otherwise enjoy the benefits of a partnership. I'm totally for being free to doing what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Most of the ideas that we need here we all learned in kindergarten...treat others how you want to be treated, accept people as they are, don't invade another person's space or take their stuff. What more than that do we really need?

One thing is for sure, we can't keep a huge government going if they are going to spend more than we make collectively. The tax revenue won't support it, and we can't keep taxing everyone into poverty either. There has to be a balance...and the government should only spend within the revenues they collect the year prior. A balanced budget makes good sense no matter which party you're talking about.


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 10:21:48 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I hate to be the one to break it to you but its doubtful that you could be "nudged" any further left

I do believe many lefties here would disagree.
quote:

Youre foaming at the mouth pretty good already

Sorry, I only foam at the mouth on abortion or gun control threads



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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Disappointment with Obama - 7/2/2011 10:30:36 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

As an independent, I can say that nearly every post that I read from our resident hard 'righties' nudges me a little bit further to the left.
Come on over to our side. We have pretty red flags and cool anthems and marching songs!

Oh and cool pithy slogans too! "Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains". I mean really now, when is the last time Ann Coulter said anything that quotable?

And we get better weed.

And waaaay better music, too. Like Billy Bragg.

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