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[Poll]

Should the US have a VAT tax?


Yes
  33% (14)
No
  64% (27)
Unsure
  2% (1)


Total Votes : 42
(last vote on : 9/25/2011 5:48:07 PM)
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RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 1:33:23 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And like sales tax, essentials can be exempt.

The phrase you're looking for is "are exempt", not "can be exempt".
VAT is not applied to food over here, just manufactured goods. Stuff, in other words, that you don't actually need to buy in the first place. It's pretty analogous to the sales taxes you have in the 'States, except that it's charged at the same percentage throughout the UK, rather than varying from state to state. (As politesub's observation about this was ignored, it's worth repeating.)

Also, VAT doesn't discourage small businesses, which is one of the typical arguments against taxation from trickle down libertarians. If you have a business, you don't pay VAT on your stock or necessary consumables. That can prove quite beneficial.

But, of course, it's a tax, so it can't possible be anything other than appallingly harmful, can it?

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 1:46:21 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Imo, people would not be so opposed to tax increases if they actually saw the govt stopping the waste and hand outs, etc. The govt has to show people it can do that first tho or they simply wont believe it (they have fallen for that line before)...


I doubt we'd need a tax increase if they did what you say. They won't though..Too much corruption for change unless it's forced by the American people as a whole and we aren't pissed enough for that yet.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 1:49:54 PM   
geilematz


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Joined: 1/1/2011
Status: offline 		I am surprised the USA has no VAT - most European countries have for decades now (well maybe with the exception of Liechtenstein and Andorra ...) - it is about as popular as any tax one has to pay, but in comparison to any other it's the easiest thing of all to handle with in everyday life ... and everyone paying any money for any goods pays it so at least there are no loopholes in the system

even American tourists pay it when they buy anything in Europe - but they can get a refund if they care to fill out all the forms necessary

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 1:53:03 PM   
lockedaway


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Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
A federal sales tax is an idea whose time may have come...if it is implemented with a flat tax.


Yeah, because a flat tax rate will be more helpful than a VAT.....NOT! The flat tax that is being pushed right now is using figures from 2007, NOT 2011. There's been a helluva a number of changes at all levels of goverment, industry, and common Americans in those four years. I dont recall the exact math I came to the conclusion over on the Herman Cain thread, but it was MUCH higher than what conservatives were trying to peddle.

Conservatives seem to hate the income tax system not because its complicated, but because it hits the folks that have the money to pay for it, while the poor are protected. Conservatives, as we have observed, would rather reduce spending on the folks that really need it, rather than tax millionaries/billionaires for a mere 4% of their earnings.

You want to drop 'a few' hundred billion from Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense? Be prepared for the influx of folks receiving 'pink slips' and joining the throngs of unemployment we currently have in the country. [sarcasm] Because you know, the USA unemployment rate is a mere....2%....right? [/sarcasm] Yeah, the majority of those folks will be from the private sector. In addition, you'll weaken the US Defense, place more eldarly, disable, and the poor in further dire straits, and cause more anarchy than there REALLY needs to be. Also, we can save the super rich a few percentage points in taxes worth of money.


You are so funny in a sad and stupid way.  A 10% flat tax with no deductions would likely raise revenue, not reduce it.  Social Security is a ponzi scheme and it would work if the money paid into social security was actually used for social security.  People pay in, a lot of times they die well in advance of collecting it.  You said this little bit of numbskulled-ness below:

Conservatives seem to hate the income tax system not because its complicated, but because it hits the folks that have the money to pay for it, while the poor are protected. Conservatives, as we have observed, would rather reduce spending on the folks that really need it, rather than tax millionaries/billionaires for a mere 4% of their earnings.

How much should I pay for the poor Joether?  Are we talking about welfare recipients? Should those welfare recipients actually have to work to get a check or should they be able to sit on their asses and collect or be like the tenant I just threw out that was collecting section 8 housing funds and food stamps and selling heroine in a school zone for that much needed pocket cash?  Define who it is that you want to protect so bad.  Is it the millions of illegal aliens that clog our emergency rooms, prisons and schools every single day? 

Yes...a flat tax and a federal income tax will hit everyone.  Ass, gas or grass, no one rides for free.  And that means YOU, Joether!


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 1:55:00 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

But it's NOT from adding more taxes, but rather, from continually cutting taxes, which necessitates borrowing, which increases the debt.

Cutting taxes doesn't cause debt unless you're spending too much to begin with. Spending causes debt, dude.

People have been cultivated from birth to believe what we are doing as a nation is the way things work even though every fiber in our being knows different.

I can't operate a business like the government functions..Why do they get to do it?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:05:37 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I am surprised the USA has no VAT - most European countries have for decades now (well maybe with the exception of Liechtenstein and Andorra ...) - it is about as popular as any tax one has to pay, but in comparison to any other it's the easiest thing of all to handle with in everyday life ... and everyone paying any money for any goods pays it so at least there are no loopholes in the system

even American tourists pay it when they buy anything in Europe - but they can get a refund if they care to fill out all the forms necessary

No offense to any Europeans in the mix but I don't give a shit what other country has it.

It's a way to increase revenue and somebody, usually the low man on the totem pole, pays for it.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to geilematz)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:10:00 PM   
lockedaway


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Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I am surprised the USA has no VAT - most European countries have for decades now (well maybe with the exception of Liechtenstein and Andorra ...) - it is about as popular as any tax one has to pay, but in comparison to any other it's the easiest thing of all to handle with in everyday life ... and everyone paying any money for any goods pays it so at least there are no loopholes in the system

even American tourists pay it when they buy anything in Europe - but they can get a refund if they care to fill out all the forms necessary

asNo offense to any Europeans in the mix but I don't give a shit what other country has it.

It's a way to increase revenue and somebody, usually the low man on the totem pole, pays for it.



Great post. 

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:15:46 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Imo, people would not be so opposed to tax increases if they actually saw the govt stopping the waste and hand outs, etc. The govt has to show people it can do that first tho or they simply wont believe it (they have fallen for that line before)...


I doubt we'd need a tax increase if they did what you say. They won't though..Too much corruption for change unless it's forced by the American people as a whole and we aren't pissed enough for that yet.


Yes, I dont get how they (at all govt levels) can get away with the corruption and backroom deals they do, from Haliburton and massively overcharging the govt for supplies to eminent domain (aka property theft) to giving themselves outrageous salaries (like the City of Bell, CA)... all on the back of the taxpayer...


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:19:40 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I am surprised the USA has no VAT - most European countries have for decades now (well maybe with the exception of Liechtenstein and Andorra ...) - it is about as popular as any tax one has to pay, but in comparison to any other it's the easiest thing of all to handle with in everyday life ... and everyone paying any money for any goods pays it so at least there are no loopholes in the system

even American tourists pay it when they buy anything in Europe - but they can get a refund if they care to fill out all the forms necessary

No offense to any Europeans in the mix but I don't give a shit what other country has it.

It's a way to increase revenue and somebody, usually the low man on the totem pole, pays for it.


Yes, and if the govt sees fit it will morph into a larger tax, just as it did in Canada, going from a 4% manufacturers tax at the wholesale level to an 8% sales tax on nearly all goods & services.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:26:23 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

Would it apply to the paper-only products "manufactured" by the financial sector, or only on tangible goods manufactured by actual product manufacturers (TVs, software, sneakers, houses, etc)?




Tangible goods.

The financial instruments you're alluding to transfer value, not add it.


That makes it even worse. 



they subtract from it as a transfer fee on every transaction

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:28:31 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

have a VAT only if you want high unemployment like Europe. If you want Europe, gee, move there. NOT in the USA. All of this is academic, because there will be big changes after the 2012 elections.


VAT is just a sales tax. I thought most States already had that ?

As for 2012, dont hold your breath waiting for power. You would have to be nuts for voting for Palin. Oh wait...I forgot who I was replying to.


its an estate tax

see if you can figger that one out LOL





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/7/2011 2:29:18 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:30:38 PM   
lockedaway


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Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Imo, people would not be so opposed to tax increases if they actually saw the govt stopping the waste and hand outs, etc. The govt has to show people it can do that first tho or they simply wont believe it (they have fallen for that line before)...


I doubt we'd need a tax increase if they did what you say. They won't though..Too much corruption for change unless it's forced by the American people as a whole and we aren't pissed enough for that yet.


Yes, I dont get how they (at all govt levels) can get away with the corruption and backroom deals they do, from Haliburton and massively overcharging the govt for supplies to eminent domain (aka property theft) to giving themselves outrageous salaries (like the City of Bell, CA)... all on the back of the taxpayer...



Ok...3.5 carats, would that be good for you?  All i need to know now is whether it should be box cut, empress or pear shape? It will be vvs, don't worry.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:32:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year?


It would add nothing at all. It's a tax at the production level.

It's also an "across the board" tax, but not on income.

Clearly, from this and other comments in this thread, most people posting have no idea what a VAT is.



Canada used to have a (hidden) tax on the production level... you know what happened? it was eventually converted into the dreaded GST which is a (sales) tax on almost everything on the retail value...
.. imo, that will eventually be the future too in the US... cuz the govt wont be able to help itself from sucking/wasting more and more and more.


its like this cute little fed used to bs me about: "the guv is the most secure fastest growing biz going".

More taxes yes!  yellow trucks on every corner yes!  More hidden agency trust and imbezzlement funds yeh baby.... 

we need more!  more!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:35:12 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year?


It would add nothing at all. It's a tax at the production level.

It's also an "across the board" tax, but not on income.

Clearly, from this and other comments in this thread, most people posting have no idea what a VAT is.



Canada used to have a (hidden) tax on the production level... you know what happened? it was eventually converted into the dreaded GST which is a (sales) tax on almost everything on the retail value...
.. imo, that will eventually be the future too in the US... cuz the govt wont be able to help itself from sucking/wasting more and more and more.


its like this cute little fed used to bs me about: "the guv is the most secure fastest growing biz going".

More taxes yes!  yellow trucks on every corner yes!  More hidden agency trust and imbezzlement funds yeh baby.... 

we need more!  more!



You are right, Real One.  And what makes this libs so f****** obtuse is that they all want to talk about the VAT tax in a vacuum.  O'scumbag wants to increase estate taxes, he wants a higher income tax he wants to increase payroll taxes from 8% to 13%.  These fools are supporting people that are going to tax them and their country out of existence.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:38:09 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, and if the govt sees fit it will morph into a larger tax, just as it did in Canada, going from a 4% manufacturers tax at the wholesale level to an 8% sales tax on nearly all goods & services.

See that's the problem and we all know it..Everyone with a lick of brains and a memory longer than a gnats dick..They'll always want more so they, their friends and whoever else is on board with them, can continue their high standards of living at the expense of the everyday American.

I was going to tell a story that was told to me about the waste that goes on even at the Dept of Ag. (I know someone that works there) but I wouldn't want get anyone into shit over it.

I'll just say this. Why is it when they go to other countries they have to have the best of everything? Why the nicest rooms at the most expensive hotels, drive in the nicest cars and all of the other things that go along with that? What's wrong with Motel 8. I say they take their bodyguards and buy up THAT hotel for the week instead of the top floor of the Ritz.

Stop wasting my fucking money.. Fuck that and fuck them.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:47:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year?


It would add nothing at all. It's a tax at the production level.

It's also an "across the board" tax, but not on income.

Clearly, from this and other comments in this thread, most people posting have no idea what a VAT is.



Canada used to have a (hidden) tax on the production level... you know what happened? it was eventually converted into the dreaded GST which is a (sales) tax on almost everything on the retail value...
.. imo, that will eventually be the future too in the US... cuz the govt wont be able to help itself from sucking/wasting more and more and more.


its like this cute little fed used to bs me about: "the guv is the most secure fastest growing biz going".

More taxes yes!  yellow trucks on every corner yes!  More hidden agency trust and imbezzlement funds yeh baby.... 

we need more!  more!



You are right, Real One.  And what makes this libs so f****** obtuse is that they all want to talk about the VAT tax in a vacuum.  O'scumbag wants to increase estate taxes, he wants a higher income tax he wants to increase payroll taxes from 8% to 13%.  These fools are supporting people that are going to tax them and their country out of existence.



and take a wage decrease at the same time!  for the gipper!

oh yeh!

Its not what your country can do for you but giving up your ass for your country!  (so that can pad their multi million dollar retirement accounts et al)  


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:53:59 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Ok...3.5 carats, would that be good for you?  All i need to know now is whether it should be box cut, empress or pear shape? It will be vvs, don't worry.


To be honest, I am not into jewelry much, I dont wear rings or necklaces or stuff like that.
My ex gave me his grandmothers wedding ring, it was a little big and i never got it resized and never wore it, not even once (too afraid of losing it anyway)...
..when we split up I gave it back to him as I felt it should stay with him for sentimental value...


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 2:58:36 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Ok...3.5 carats, would that be good for you?  All i need to know now is whether it should be box cut, empress or pear shape? It will be vvs, don't worry.


To be honest, I am not into jewelry much, I dont wear rings or necklaces or stuff like that.
My ex gave me his grandmothers wedding ring, it was a little big and i never got it resized and never wore it, not even once (too afraid of losing it anyway)...
..when we split up I gave it back to him as I felt it should stay with him for sentimental value...



Alright, I will return the ring but work with me!!  Give me some ideas.  Do you know how rare it is to find a beautiful, conservative-in-most-respects girl?

By the way, that shows a lot of class and integrity on your part. :)


< Message edited by lockedaway -- 7/7/2011 3:00:06 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 3:11:20 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Alright, I will return the ring but work with me!!  Give me some ideas.  Do you know how rare it is to find a beautiful, conservative-in-most-respects girl?

By the way, that shows a lot of class and integrity on your part. :)

sigh.. or stupidity?.. I have never been the gold digger type... it just rubs me the wrong way and always has. Everyone has to look into the mirror, I want to like the person I see.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/7/2011 3:14:26 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Alright, I will return the ring but work with me!!  Give me some ideas.  Do you know how rare it is to find a beautiful, conservative-in-most-respects girl?

By the way, that shows a lot of class and integrity on your part. :)

sigh.. or stupidity?.. I have never been the gold digger type... it just rubs me the wrong way and always has. Everyone has to look into the mirror, I want to like the person I see.


<rubs the toe of his boot in the dirt, looks up and says> I like what I see. :)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 80
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