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Should the US have a VAT tax?


Yes
  33% (14)
No
  64% (27)
Unsure
  2% (1)


Total Votes : 42


(last vote on : 9/25/2011 5:48:07 PM)
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RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:12:43 AM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Oh yeah...now I really think your dumb.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  NO ONE said there should be no taxes, got that, bright boy?  Don't talk to me about subsidizing hunting and fishing and how that is such a huge part of America's almost 15 Trillion national debt and such a huge chunk of America's total debt that exceeds 54 trillion.  OK???

Read my posts again.  Look at the debt clock. Read PA's posts again.  Read Icarys' posts again and Tj's.  OK...genius?  No one said there should be no taxes but WE HAVE SAID that 35 million illegals shouldn't get free health care.  Got it?  WE HAVE SAID that we are not getting the value for our tax dollar.  WE HAVE SAID that our government has grown in size and corruption.  WE HAVE SAID that we shouldn't be globe trotting for whatever reason without a vital, national interest at stake.  You want to talk about hunting???  You don't advance the conversation by miring it down in minutia. 



Really ? So you think all the so called minutia is free, or that all the services people take for granted are free ?  You really couldnt make this shit up. But hey, blame illegals, it must all be their fault, right ?  The trouble with some of you is you pick the easy targets before engaging your brain. It doesnt help that you are making bogus claims that there are 35 million illegals either. I may be dumb in your eyes but at least I can read and dont make wild claims.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml




You are right, you are dumb in my eyes.  There is a local hospital just down the street from me.  EVERYDAY the emergency room is filled with hispanics.  They are ALL illegals.  CAT Scans for the nondescript headache, thousands of X-rays, dozens upon dozens of upper and lower GI's....hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical testing to have someone leave with Tylenol or Nexium or some other product.  Who does it get paid by?  The taxpayers.

Classrooms full of illegal aliens.  They don't pay property taxes but the schools in New Jersey are funded by property taxes.  So there are teachers teaching children whose parents pay nothing towards the system.  There are school superintendents employed, principals, vice principals, assistants to principals and vice principals.  All of these people getting paid by tax dollars.

There are cops...what do they get paid by, genius?....tax dollars.  The cops go out and arrest illegals.  The illegal aliens do not do anything that contributes to the burdensome expense of law enforcement.  But the cops go arrest them.  Sometimes the cops get injured and go out on disability costing us even more money.  But the job has to be done and the cops have to be paid and the kitty that they get paid from does not get contributed to.

There are corrections officers that watch the people the cops arrest.  They manage them.  They make sure they are fed.  They make sure they are in lock down.  They make sure they are not rioting.  They make sure they are brought to the hospital wing.  Sometimes the corrections officers get hurt also by these illegal alien prisoners and they too go out on disability.  That, of course, costs us even more.

There are Judges, public defenders, prosecutors, clerks and more that process these illegal alien prisoners through the system.  All of these people get paid from......what?  Put your fucking coffee down and think about it.  Tax dollars, genius.  TAX DOLLARS!  The taxes that the illegals do not pay is what goes to pay these people.

There is ICE and ICE sometimes puts detainers on these illegal aliens.  ICE has its own officers.  When the illegal alien is done with the court process on the State level, they are brought to ICE which deals with them further.  All of these people are paid by what?  Smart guy?  What?  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh taxes....that's right.

What I just outlined is a small part of the criminal process.  But there are other branches of government that deal with these people everyday.  They lose their children through neglect or abuse just like any other group.  That causes the involvement of the Division of Youth and Family Services......their people paid by tax dollars.  There may be removal hearings that may involve the State Attorney Generals Office.  Those people are paid with tax dollars.

If there is a fire, who puts it out Oh Brilliant One?  Oh, I know, firemen and they get paid by tax dollars.

Who collects their garbage?  Let me give you a clue the first word is Garbage...  The garbageman collects their garbage and what does he get paid from?  Riiiiiiiight....taxes.

I can do this all day.  You are too dumb for me to waste the time on.  THAT is the problem.  I'm not hear to do your thinking for you.  If you are this dumb at this age, then we all suffer because you don't think deep enough to ever make a wise decision.

Oh...genius....what do hunters and fisherman pay in order to hunt or fish?  Ahhhhhh...yeah....permits.

You whine like a retarded schoolgirl that I am picking on soft targets (actually I retract that because that was terribly unfair to retarded schoolgirls).  I have picked on ALL targets.  How hostile our work environment has become to manufacturing, confiscatory income taxation, military incursions into places where we have no vital, national interest.  I have picked on all targets....and here is where I pick on you.  You are dumb.  You are intellectually unethical (because you can see where I have picked on the other targets).  You don't think.  You do NOTHING to advance a solution to any problem.  You want the status quo while the country burns.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:14:22 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I was talking about the US only, I dont have enough of a handle on Germany or the UK or various other countries to comment on their tax system, etc.

So what grounds are you claiming that a tax system they don't have in the 'States is a terrible evil that shouldn't be introduced under any circumstances, then? Not experience or knowledge of what you're discussing, it seems.

_____________________________

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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:23:14 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I was talking about the US only, I dont have enough of a handle on Germany or the UK or various other countries to comment on their tax system, etc.

So what grounds are you claiming that a tax system they don't have in the 'States is a terrible evil that shouldn't be introduced under any circumstances, then? Not experience or knowledge of what you're discussing, it seems.


It is called American Exceptionalism.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:36:35 AM   
Moonhead


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No, it's called either "arguing from ignorance" or "special pleading".

_____________________________

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:39:30 AM   
pahunkboy


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Moon, hunny bunch, sweety pie,  pumpkin;  the US will never aspire to be old Europe.    We are a free people.  We have the Bill of Rights, in the Constitution.  

One size does not fit all.  Via the nature of America-  we require unique components to our governance.

No VAT for us.  Anyone who believes other taxes would be gone or reduced via a VAT are WRONG.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:43:35 AM   
Moonhead


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You're aware that this term "American Exceptionalism" was Joseph Stalin's coinage in response to a comment the leader of the American communist party made in the twenties?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:43:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

ARE YOU CRAZY?
Geeze, who would ever want more taxes? Its just another money grab, tax & waste, tax more & waste more.


lemme think

A while ago someone on here ridiciouled Germany for the amount of taxes we pay over here...

now...

having experienced the health care in the UK and heard about the costs of healthcare in the US (IF you are lucky enough to have one),

having experienced the raise in tuition fees in the UK and heard they are expensive in the US, too

now...

these are just two examples why I am quite happy with the taxes we do pay over here...as over here all of us are entitled to health insurance and to receive good treatments and young people don't get very debt ridden with student debts....as in some counties it is still free to study (and in others its just 1000 Euro per year...)

so...

quite frankly, if the system works in the country and taxes help to provide a good standard of living for everyone....then all I can say

YES


Good Day Hun.

Germany is a different culture then US.  Germany seems to go for quality over quantity.

I have a good amount of German in me. 

Your roads are designed to last-  and things do not fall apart so fast over there.

The pluses you have as a culture would take decades to implement in the US, and frankly the corporate greed here- would never allow it.

So 1/2 measures are not acceptable.  We would get the bait and switch here.  After all- where else do people get charged to receive a cell call?

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:45:16 AM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I was talking about the US only, I dont have enough of a handle on Germany or the UK or various other countries to comment on their tax system, etc.

So what grounds are you claiming that a tax system they don't have in the 'States is a terrible evil that shouldn't be introduced under any circumstances, then? Not experience or knowledge of what you're discussing, it seems.


PA is right, why the hell would we ever aspire to be Europe? 

No, moonbeam, the reason why we don't want a hidden tax at all levels of production is multi-fold; 1) we don't like hidden and arbitrary taxation which is one of the reasons we got away from you European fuckers in the first place; 2) a simple percentage on a Federal sales tax is much more transparent; 3) we want neither a VAT tax nor a federal sales tax without a corresponding reduction in income tax and we want a flat income tax at this point as well; 4) why in God's name would we want a tax at every stage of production as we would be paying taxes on top of taxes, and 5) taxes mean control and taxes never go down and never go away so the new tax they implement will be nudged higher and higher as time goes by.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:47:28 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You're aware that this term "American Exceptionalism" was Joseph Stalin's coinage in response to a comment the leader of the American communist party made in the twenties?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism


I do not discount the possibility of a Bolchivich, or French Revolution here.

Feudalism- has been creeping into our life here- and a VAT would further that feudalism.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:53:39 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
taxes never go down and never go away

I love that you can come out with a statement like that and then have the gall to expect to have anything else you have to say taken seriously.
How do you think the current rate of taxation on the highest income bracket compares to the one that was in place in your country in the '50s?
(I'll give you a clue: it isn't higher.)


_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:53:52 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I was talking about the US only, I dont have enough of a handle on Germany or the UK or various other countries to comment on their tax system, etc.

So what grounds are you claiming that a tax system they don't have in the 'States is a terrible evil that shouldn't be introduced under any circumstances, then? Not experience or knowledge of what you're discussing, it seems.

Huh? As I already said, my experience comes from living in Canada where they had such a tax and it morphed into a national 8% tax on nearly all goods and services on the retail value. You dont think the US has watched that happen in Canada and doesnt drool at the possibility of eventually doing the same in the US and all the tax revenue that would bring in to wage more wars, more $ for their buddies, etc? Now, if only they can pull the wool over the voters once again they could have that chance..

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(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 7:55:55 AM   
Moonhead


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Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.
8% seems extraordinarily low: how long ago did you move to the 'States from Canada?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 7/8/2011 8:03:32 AM >


_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:01:08 AM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I was talking about the US only, I dont have enough of a handle on Germany or the UK or various other countries to comment on their tax system, etc.

So what grounds are you claiming that a tax system they don't have in the 'States is a terrible evil that shouldn't be introduced under any circumstances, then? Not experience or knowledge of what you're discussing, it seems.

Huh? As I already said, my experience comes from living in Canada where they had such a tax and it morphed into a national 8% tax on nearly all goods and services on the retail value. You dont think the US has watched that happen in Canada and doesnt drool at the possibility of eventually doing the same in the US and all the tax revenue that would bring in to wage more wars, more $ for their buddies, etc? Now, if only they can pull the wool over the voters once again they could have that chance..


Don't go back to Canada, TJ....all money that I would have contributed to entitlement spending, I will funnel to you.  Ummm...you just have to relocate to the east coast. :)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:03:37 AM   
lockedaway


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And then there's this:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/june-swoon-economy-added-almost-no-jobs-last-125737430.html

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:05:51 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.

One of the draws the US has is a relatively low tax rate, at least that is one reason cited by many Canadians that move south.. but, if the US increases and/or introduces new taxes, that benefit diminishes more and more over time.. imo, the US (or any country) needs people that will invest and create new businesses, and jobs.. money tends to flow where it will generate a good return on investment.. if not to the US then it will find a home elsewhere..

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:11:31 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.
8% seems extraordinarily low: how long ago did you move to the 'States from Canada?

about 2 years ago
That is just one tax but its on almost everything, there are sales taxes in many provinces, income tax of course (Federal & Provincial), gas tax, etc all the way down the line...
That tax used to be 4% on the wholesale value of goods only so for it to jump to 8% on the retail value of basically everything, services too.. well, lets just say it was a huge windfall for the Federal coffers... an unjust windfall if you ask me..

actually, i think it went up to 8.5% and since I moved they have started moving to harmonizing the GST with provincial sales tax (creating one total tax rate).

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/8/2011 8:19:55 AM >


_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:15:54 AM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.
8% seems extraordinarily low: how long ago did you move to the 'States from Canada?

about 2 years ago
That is just one tax but its on almost everything, there are sales taxes in many provinces, income tax of course (Federal & Provincial), gas tax, etc all the way down the line...
That tax used to be 4% on the wholesale value of goods only so for it to jump to 8% on the retail value of basically everything, services too.. well, lets just say it was a huge windfall for the Federal coffers... an unjust windfall if you ask me..


I would like to tell you to just save your money and wait, real estate will dip again another 20 o 30%.  The problem is that you will buy it dirt cheap but you will find more taxes and permits and licenses and fees will be enacted against your little blue heaven, making it harder to hold, and selling it for a real profit could be as much as a decade away.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:24:03 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Don't go back to Canada, TJ....all money that I would have contributed to entitlement spending, I will funnel to you.  Ummm...you just have to relocate to the east coast. :)


hmmm... are you trying to bribe me??? (giggle)

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:24:40 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.

One of the draws the US has is a relatively low tax rate, at least that is one reason cited by many Canadians that move south.. but, if the US increases and/or introduces new taxes, that benefit diminishes more and more over time.. imo, the US (or any country) needs people that will invest and create new businesses, and jobs.. money tends to flow where it will generate a good return on investment.. if not to the US then it will find a home elsewhere..

The latter's an argument in favour of VAT, rather than against it, surely? A flat tax on manufactured goods means at least some revenue will get raised on the cheapskate shits like Walmart and Apple who've shifted their manufacturing out of the country.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? - 7/8/2011 8:26:38 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

have a VAT only if you want high unemployment like Europe. If you want Europe, gee, move there. NOT in the USA. All of this is academic, because there will be big changes after the 2012 elections.



Too stupid to compare statistics? Which part of Europe exactly? You are aware you are talking about a continent with a lot of countries (given your usually rubbish I thought it would be prudent to ask because you don't seem to know much), and how come that a lot of European countries are doing relatively well? You don't want that for the USA? Oh why do you hate the USA?


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)
Profile   Post #: 180
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