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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Don't go back to Canada, TJ....all money that I would have contributed to entitlement spending, I will funnel to you.  Ummm...you just have to relocate to the east coast. :)

hmmm... are you trying to bribe me??? (giggle)

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Mea culpa: I missed the reference to Canada.

One of the draws the US has is a relatively low tax rate, at least that is one reason cited by many Canadians that move south.. but, if the US increases and/or introduces new taxes, that benefit diminishes more and more over time.. imo, the US (or any country) needs people that will invest and create new businesses, and jobs.. money tends to flow where it will generate a good return on investment.. if not to the US then it will find a home elsewhere..

The latter's an argument in favour of VAT, rather than against it, surely? A flat tax on manufactured goods means at least some revenue will get raised on the cheapskate shits like Walmart and Apple who've shifted their manufacturing out of the country.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As I stated earlier in the thread, businesses don't pay VAT on their stock or raw materials. It's a surcharge on the finished goods, paid by the consumer. When you start a business, you get a VAT number and stop paying VAT on your stock, consumables and other business schmutter.

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You're aware that this term "American Exceptionalism" was Joseph Stalin's coinage in response to a comment the leader of the American communist party made in the twenties?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism


I do not discount the possibility of a Bolchivich, or French Revolution here.

Feudalism- has been creeping into our life here- and a VAT would further that feudalism.

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Oh yeah...now I really think your dumb.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  NO ONE said there should be no taxes, got that, bright boy?  Don't talk to me about subsidizing hunting and fishing and how that is such a huge part of America's almost 15 Trillion national debt and such a huge chunk of America's total debt that exceeds 54 trillion.  OK???

Read my posts again.  Look at the debt clock. Read PA's posts again.  Read Icarys' posts again and Tj's.  OK...genius?  No one said there should be no taxes but WE HAVE SAID that 35 million illegals shouldn't get free health care.  Got it?  WE HAVE SAID that we are not getting the value for our tax dollar.  WE HAVE SAID that our government has grown in size and corruption.  WE HAVE SAID that we shouldn't be globe trotting for whatever reason without a vital, national interest at stake.  You want to talk about hunting???  You don't advance the conversation by miring it down in minutia. 

Really ? So you think all the so called minutia is free, or that all the services people take for granted are free ?  You really couldnt make this shit up. But hey, blame illegals, it must all be their fault, right ?  The trouble with some of you is you pick the easy targets before engaging your brain. It doesnt help that you are making bogus claims that there are 35 million illegals either. I may be dumb in your eyes but at least I can read and dont make wild claims.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml

You are right, you are dumb in my eyes.  There is a local hospital just down the street from me.  EVERYDAY the emergency room is filled with hispanics.  They are ALL illegals.  CAT Scans for the nondescript headache, thousands of X-rays, dozens upon dozens of upper and lower GI's....hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical testing to have someone leave with Tylenol or Nexium or some other product.  Who does it get paid by?  The taxpayers.

Classrooms full of illegal aliens.  They don't pay property taxes but the schools in New Jersey are funded by property taxes.  So there are teachers teaching children whose parents pay nothing towards the system.  There are school superintendents employed, principals, vice principals, assistants to principals and vice principals.  All of these people getting paid by tax dollars.

There are cops...what do they get paid by, genius?....tax dollars.  The cops go out and arrest illegals.  The illegal aliens do not do anything that contributes to the burdensome expense of law enforcement.  But the cops go arrest them.  Sometimes the cops get injured and go out on disability costing us even more money.  But the job has to be done and the cops have to be paid and the kitty that they get paid from does not get contributed to.

There are corrections officers that watch the people the cops arrest.  They manage them.  They make sure they are fed.  They make sure they are in lock down.  They make sure they are not rioting.  They make sure they are brought to the hospital wing.  Sometimes the corrections officers get hurt also by these illegal alien prisoners and they too go out on disability.  That, of course, costs us even more.

There are Judges, public defenders, prosecutors, clerks and more that process these illegal alien prisoners through the system.  All of these people get paid from......what?  Put your fucking coffee down and think about it.  Tax dollars, genius.  TAX DOLLARS!  The taxes that the illegals do not pay is what goes to pay these people.

There is ICE and ICE sometimes puts detainers on these illegal aliens.  ICE has its own officers.  When the illegal alien is done with the court process on the State level, they are brought to ICE which deals with them further.  All of these people are paid by what?  Smart guy?  What?  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh taxes....that's right.

What I just outlined is a small part of the criminal process.  But there are other branches of government that deal with these people everyday.  They lose their children through neglect or abuse just like any other group.  That causes the involvement of the Division of Youth and Family Services......their people paid by tax dollars.  There may be removal hearings that may involve the State Attorney Generals Office.  Those people are paid with tax dollars.

If there is a fire, who puts it out Oh Brilliant One?  Oh, I know, firemen and they get paid by tax dollars.

Who collects their garbage?  Let me give you a clue the first word is Garbage...  The garbageman collects their garbage and what does he get paid from?  Riiiiiiiight....taxes.

I can do this all day.  You are too dumb for me to waste the time on.  THAT is the problem.  I'm not hear to do your thinking for you.  If you are this dumb at this age, then we all suffer because you don't think deep enough to ever make a wise decision.

Oh...genius....what do hunters and fisherman pay in order to hunt or fish?  Ahhhhhh...yeah....permits.

You whine like a retarded schoolgirl that I am picking on soft targets (actually I retract that because that was terribly unfair to retarded schoolgirls).  I have picked on ALL targets.  How hostile our work environment has become to manufacturing, confiscatory income taxation, military incursions into places where we have no vital, national interest.  I have picked on all targets....and here is where I pick on you.  You are dumb.  You are intellectually unethical (because you can see where I have picked on the other targets).  You don't think.  You do NOTHING to advance a solution to any problem.  You want the status quo while the country burns.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Why then doesn't the queen impose a VAT tax on us her subjects, as she has done to all others, Professor Plum?

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

I hear you, Real.  You have no argument from me.  Now..I wasn't posting what we pay taxes for....of course we pay taxes for all of that stuff.  But those services are rendered to illegals who do not pay taxes for it and Polite says I'm picking on a weak target?  For a weak target, they have one hell of a lot of impact.

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Don't go back to Canada, TJ....all money that I would have contributed to entitlement spending, I will funnel to you.  Ummm...you just have to relocate to the east coast. :)

hmmm... are you trying to bribe me??? (giggle)

I AM!!!  Not only would you have a boyfriend who has achieved a modicum of success, you would have someone to invest with, travel the world with, ski all over the world with....do you ski?  Anyway...YES!  I'm trying to bribe you!!!  Guilty as charged!!

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As I stated earlier in the thread, businesses don't pay VAT on their stock or raw materials. It's a surcharge on the finished goods, paid by the consumer. When you start a business, you get a VAT number and stop paying VAT on your stock, consumables and other business schmutter.

well, maybe for most but not for me, for what I want to do...
and just because a VAT is like that elsewhere, we are talking about the US govt here.. they,... ummm.. can do it any way they want and charge any rate they want, they can put it on any or all goods and services...
If they introduce a sales tax/VAT, then it doesnt penalize the walmarts at all, it takes more money out of the pocket of the poor and middle class.. it really doesnt hurt rich people cuz they can afford it, its people that are just hanging by a thread that it hurts most. At this point in time, there are too many people in that boat, imo...

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead
The more crap you buy, the more VAT you pay. It's about the only way to actually get the plutocrats to pay any tax, in fact.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Food and the basic stuff you need to live, you don't pay VAT on: it's just a tax on manufactured goods.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Fair enough, but I was talking about the UK system, not the Canadian one.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You'll find that's the point of taxation in the first place, I'm afraid.