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Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 9:58:04 AM   
PainObjectForUse


Posts: 38
Joined: 7/10/2011
Status: offline 		I read a post somewhere online, where a member, or former member made a peculiar statement:

- " there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?

Warning - if the person who wrote it is still around, please claim full credit for this. I would also love to find out first hand  what led to these words.

Tony


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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 10:20:05 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

- " there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?

I don't make anything of it. Why should I?

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 10:23:04 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i would take that person as being very cynical towards the motivations of others, or perhaps airing his/her own issues. 

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 10:26:09 AM   
SashaSteel


Posts: 33
Joined: 4/24/2011
Status: offline 		What intentions?

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 10:26:24 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Translation: "I'm not getting laid enough."

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 11:28:29 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PainObjectForUse
" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "... I would also love to find out first hand  what led to these words.


My guess? This person formed their ideas of submission from watching too much porn.

pam

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 11:30:34 AM   
Giermo


Posts: 77
Joined: 7/12/2011
Status: offline 		Simple, "_____" is ignorant and/or has issues. 

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 11:30:58 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09



My guess? This person formed their ideas of submission from watching too much porn.

pam



QFT

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 2:51:19 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		Well if i went REALLY deep and did A LOT of projecting of my own beliefs i would say that submission isn't as selfless as what some people make it out to be. I act a certain way because there is a payoff in the behaviour. I like to serve because it makes me feel good. Now that is not to say that it is fake imo but it certainly isn't the selfless act that some people have in their heads about what submission "should" be.

PERHAPS, and this is a huge perhaps because i would need so much more context to the conversation, that is what the person was trying to portray.

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 3:24:27 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I think the person is extremely bitter and jaded and hasn't learned to move on from their bad experiences yet.



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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 6:04:40 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Tony,
There is some ridiculous idea from some folks who call themselves dominants (not actual dominants, mind you - just ones who call themselves this) that submissive people should be completely focused on the dominant person.  They seem to think that a follower has no personal needs, wants, desires.  They think that wanting joy and love and good things is a sign that the person is not actually submissive and is in fact a fake.  This is how I read it.

Anyone who wants a HEALTHY person should expect that person to have standards.  The people who think the statement you have quoted tend to be people who are substandard (I made a word play.  YAY me!)

best wishes,
sunshine

p.s.  Welcome to the forums again.  I enjoy your posts. 



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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 6:29:11 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Tony,
There are so many places I could go with that quote. The reality is though that my take on it is that none of them would go to a positive place. And suffice it to say, I just chose to spend my time and energy focusing on positive things today. This is not meant to offend you in any way, shape, or form.....It's just to say that through out your experiences on the board you will no doubt be bombarded with many negative beliefs, comments, statements and sadly sometimes down right attacks and accusations....
Take what you want and leave the rest is my motto.

Kali


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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 6:34:26 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie

Well if i went REALLY deep and did A LOT of projecting of my own beliefs i would say that submission isn't as selfless as what some people make it out to be. I act a certain way because there is a payoff in the behaviour. I like to serve because it makes me feel good. Now that is not to say that it is fake imo but it certainly isn't the selfless act that some people have in their heads about what submission "should" be.

PERHAPS, and this is a huge perhaps because i would need so much more context to the conversation, that is what the person was trying to portray.


This, too.

pam

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 7:10:15 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie

Well if i went REALLY deep and did A LOT of projecting of my own beliefs i would say that submission isn't as selfless as what some people make it out to be. I act a certain way because there is a payoff in the behaviour. I like to serve because it makes me feel good. Now that is not to say that it is fake imo but it certainly isn't the selfless act that some people have in their heads about what submission "should" be.

PERHAPS, and this is a huge perhaps because i would need so much more context to the conversation, that is what the person was trying to portray.
And why else would you want to do it? I find the idea that people would do things that make them miserable to please others a fascinating concept - that's the kind of shit that happens when you buy into any political system, it's a scam.

we have to do a lot of things we may not like like simply in order to survive, work, etc., when it comes to relationships, I think you should be out to please yourself, and if you can find someone who feels the same and you can mesh, then you have something.

On the flip side, there is whole aspect of fantasy, which applies to everybody, not just BDSM as well, which can take the form of constructing a fantasy that you expect others to conform to, they become objects in your fantasy rather than independent actors.

It's not necessarily a bad thing if there is some upfront acknowledgement that it is a fantasy being played out, even if it is extremely detailed and intense: slavery, etc., i.e., where it's taken past the scene level and into TPE, but all the participants have to be on board with that, or there will be tension.

I can easily see however, where a sub going into these situations, where there are complicated fantasy/expectations might start to become a little cynical about it - what we do is an "act", but more often what we seek is something a little more fundamental than the superficial act, something besides going through the motions - passion, security, intimacy, respect, love - a life.

Cynicism tends to settle in when you start feeling like an actor, a blank canvas for others to project their fantasies onto, instead of a human being with needs of your own - a dissatisfaction with being confined to a superficial role is common element among married people seeking gratification in BDSM outside the marriage for example.

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 7:26:23 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?
what would i make of it? that whoever said it knew what the fuck they were talking about. it's basically what coookie said <bitch beat me to it!>. submission does contain a degree of 'fakeness' because while on the surface its about giving, underneath its about taking. the sub doesn't submit to please the dom, he/she does it to fucking please themself. the sub gets her kick by submitting, that's why she submits.

thinking this through a bit, one could say the same fucking thing about dominance too. on the surface its about what the fucking dom wants, but underneath, a good dom knows that the sub has to be getting what they want as well. so while the dom seems to be taking, they are actually giving as well.

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.

and now i think i've gone and fucking confused myself.


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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 8:06:56 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Yin/Yang, fuckin A. 

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 8:34:18 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.


Pretty much this.


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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 8:47:13 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline 		Yeppers.

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/16/2011 11:41:47 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		The cult of authenticity is very popular, and playing at this is sometimes considered to be "faking it" or something, but really, it's all just experience, and everything we do is a role: employee, wife, mother, father, husband, etc., etc. - we all rely on a mixture of experience and instinct, biology and culture - artifice - to do anything. Role playing is innate behavior in humans - you don't have to teach children to do it, you can't stop them from doing it.

"Authenticity" is just a catchword, all the world's a stage - being "authentic", as a meaningful thing, is really just being true to yourself - even if that means everything is an act, if that happens to be your thing.

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RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 2:01:24 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline
quote:

all the world's a stage -
If all the world's a stage, then where does the audience sit?

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