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There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 11:29:36 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Some news from abroad...

At 14:56 GMT today, a bomb went off in the government quarter in Norway, effectively demolishing all the key public offices and most of the political parties' headquarters. The blast took out every window within a three block radius. Fire brigades are on the scene, along with bomb squads and medical personell. Police have been armed and deployed, and the military is deploying troops in the general area. The city has been cordoned off, with central areas being aggressively evacuated. The government officials have been moved to a secure location. The airport now has armed police checking all travellers.

At 16:26 GMT, a man disguised as a police officer attacked the Labor Party Youth Camp, where 560 attendees were present for the annual summer camp, most of them teenagers. The island was cut off by getting rid of the boat that brought them there, whereupon the attacker proceeded to use a submachinegun, a shotgun and a handgun in the attack. Rapid deployment unit delta arrived shortly after the incident started, and have apprehended the attacker. Bomb squads are on site, and apparently have cause to suspect the presence of an explosive device. Casualty estimates are not yet available, but a mobile hospital, four medevac units and 20 ambulances have been dispatched, and one EMT reported seeing 30 bodies in his area.

At 17:40 GMT, there was a report of a second bomb in the Parliament, but the report may have been a hoax.

Scarce coverage from national sources is due to the urbanization problem, with most of the news agencies having secured themselves good office spaces... most of which are or were in precisely the area which was first evacuated. Additionally, communication has never been particularly good between officials and the public, and it obviously didn't help that a lot of the key infrastructure was located in a single area (as a lot of us have repeatedly warned against). As to cause and agent, obviously, the public suspicions are as one might expect. Me, I would be more inclined to suspect a domestic origin for various reasons, but I'm not ruling out the various other alternatives.

Anyway, the consequences are the beef. I expect security theatre and the loss of already limited privacy and rights to progress at an unprecedented pace. The nationalist party (not so named, but may as well be) is going to have immense popularity in the soon to be upcoming election. And people will swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker.

So, there goes the neighbourhood.

And, of course, I do empathize with the dead and bereaved.

Peace.

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 11:42:15 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Some news from abroad...

Anyway, the consequences are the beef. I expect security theatre and the loss of already limited privacy and rights to progress at an unprecedented pace. The nationalist party (not so named, but may as well be) is going to have immense popularity in the soon to be upcoming election. And people will swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker.


I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

What an awful attack. My sympathies to the bereaved and their families, and those of the wounded.

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 7/22/2011 11:49:43 AM >

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 11:46:44 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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From: where it's at
Status: offline 		in norway? like the long skinny quiet peaceful sensible snowy country next to sweden, norway? the one with all the fiords, slartibartfast's norway? that one?

ho-lee fuck. i had no idea they had this sort of insanity there, ya learn something new every day.

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 12:41:57 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

in norway? like the long skinny quiet peaceful sensible snowy country next to sweden, norway? the one with all the fiords, slartibartfast's norway? that one? ho-lee fuck. i had no idea they had this sort of insanity there, ya learn something new every day.


That's the one.

We have ample insanity, but if this turns out to be domestic, it will be the first time since WW2.

If the more popular theory holds, it could be related to our courts indicting a presumed terrorist for threatening government officials. Or the fact that since the beginning of the occupation of Afghanistan, we have had units there that rank in the top 10 internationally as far as skills, equipment and professionalism is concerned, along with our similarly ranked sniper corps, regular marine corps units, foreign soil infantry, tanks and so forth. It's been controversial at home, ever since the Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to one of the quasi regular units there, which let the population know that we were actually participating (that was kept from the general population up to that point). Our presence seems to irk the less tranquil elements of the resistance movement down there.

Certainly, I won't exclude the possibility of "the usual suspects", but I sense a bit too much of a national touch to the whole thing to write off the possibility of a domestic agent. There are severall groups that would have sufficient cause to blow up the government quarter, and the Labor Party has been spectacularly unpopular with a lot of people, including said groups. But domestic groups in western nations are, in modern times, somewhat reluctant to specifically target and execute children for their political affiliations. Hence, the matter of what agent is behind it is an open question. The intelligence bureau haven't a clue as to who's behind it, apparently.

Anyway, in a country with fewer inhabitants than New York, and an area comparable to (iirc) Texas, it's obviously going to hit people a lot harder than a comparable death toll would in a larger setting. When ~2% of the high school kids in a country experience a massacre, and virtually all of them have parents that are politicians, it is pretty much inevitable that there will be unfortunate consequences to everyone else as well. Sigh.

Health.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 1:43:55 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Status: offline 		I'm so terribly sorry and just stunned!

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 2:35:35 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		how terrible =( sending good thoughts to those affected.....

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 2:42:44 PM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		I hope they find and kill the monsters who targeted children.

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 2:59:19 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Stunned, shocked and hugely sad for the affected and their families .Horrendous news. Sending prayers and thoughts to Norwegians and anyone involved.

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 3:17:50 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		Horrible horrifying news Aswad. Prayers for those directly affected and for the safety of you and your family. Updates appreciated.

Zeph


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 3:32:37 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I hope they find and kill the monsters who targeted children.


The perpetrator of the attack on the camp was arrested by rapid deployment unit delta of the national police force.

If he is found competent to stand trial, he faces 14-21 years in prison. Otherwise, he faces life in an institution.

Ironically, the attack on the government buildings could land him a lifetime sentence because it's political.

Seems to be a right-wing extremist thing. I had a feeling it would be a domestic motive.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 3:49:12 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Status: offline 		I am so sorry.



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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 3:54:40 PM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		So very, very horrible. I heard of it right after dropping my Oldest at the bus that is transporting him to England for a language camp. I can't imagine the helpless terror and fear those parents who were getting calls from their children begging for help must have felt.

What a sick, twisted mind would come up with attacking a youth camp?


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:30:52 PM   
Aswad


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Status: offline 		~fr~

Status as per midnight (GMT), since Zephyr asked.

Oslo city:
7 confirmed fatalities, 10 confirmed critical injuries, some missing or unaccounted for. Oklahoma deja vu.

Utøya island:
10 confirmed fatalities, 12 confirmed critical injuries, several missing or unaccounted for. Mostly or exclusively teenagers. Bodies are a bit scattered about the island and waterfront, and the final counts will not be in until the divers are done. Weapons and perp secured, along with an undetonated bomb. Locals have rescued most of the kids that tried to swim off the island (pretty difficult, and the water is cold), and the injured among those do not count toward the statistics, which are totals from the official effort only. At least one appears to have drowned (it's a long swim in icy waters).

Bomb squads are combing the city and the island for additional devices.

The incident is now assumed to be domestic.

Casualty figures are expected to rise.

I'm obviously a bit miffed about the guy hunting kids at summer camp with an auto. It is, in fact, upsetting my calm. Which tells me this is going to get ugly. Hopefully, the fact that it was a domestic matter will limit the long term cultural, political and judicial damages, but there is no getting around that this changes the alignment of potential constellations for the upcoming election in favor of (ironically, as the perp is reported to have neo-nazi affiliations) the far right political wing at what was already a critical point in our political history. Anyway, it'll take some time for the details to be clear, so I guess the news are over and the entertainment begins tomorrow (got to love capitalism).

As a final point, the hospital where the wounded are being treated has been essentially locked down by police guards, with patients moved to another one so the trauma ward staff can use all the operating rooms. So far, at least a couple hundred units of O-neg and A-neg have been shipped from other hospitals, and the staff there has their hands full. It's not often we see this kind of injury in our hospitals. As the doctors and nurses there are ultimately the ones charged with saving lives in the midst of the turmoil, with the majority of their injured of an age that often makes it harder to "leave the workplace behind at the end of the day", it is appropriate, I think, to mention their efforts. While it is the victims and the bereaved that command the most empathy in such an event, and with other personell involved certainly doing an important job in a difficult time, I would simply like to remind myself and others that there are silent heroes of which we hear far less, but whose efforts are deserving of respect and honorable mention nonetheless.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:39:26 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update Aswad, much appreciated. It's still hard to process the enormity of all this. Thank God it's domestic but I have to wonder what was going through his head to set him off.

Zeph


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:41:04 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I dont care what his politics or his creed, or anything, but I sincerely hope that he has an accident once they have all the info they need
ALl those children/teens adults in total panic and terror is making my eyes sting. my throat tighten, my soul cry
and anger too

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:41:43 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		al-Aswad.

Any thoughts on a lone demento or is this a like group of any size?

mitt hjerte til Norge


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/22/2011 5:47:51 PM >

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:47:59 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Thank God it's domestic


It's a measure of the international paranoia that's become prevalent the last few years that anyone thinks something like that.

A country attacking its own is the worst of many options, not the best.

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 5:53:05 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		Heh, yeah you're right. Funny how things have changed I used to be equally horrified when a terrorist attack was domestic. You've given me something to think about, thanks RF.

Zeph


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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:07:05 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Heh, yeah you're right. Funny how things have changed I used to be equally horrified when a terrorist attack was domestic. You've given me something to think about, thanks RF.


No worries.

I confess that my normally ebullient nature is very saddened by this; I've worked with, and played with, a number of Norwegians, over the years, and I hold them, and their country, in the highest regard. I just wish there was something I could do to comfort them in this awful time, but I will say this; they are one of the most resilient nations on earth, and I trust that this will draw them closer together, not further apart.

I also trust their judgement. A highly educated, intelligent, pragmatic and resolute nation.

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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:07:37 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

I can't imagine the helpless terror and fear those parents who were getting calls from their children begging for help must have felt.


There's no shortage of stories.

The media gets a paycheck from tugging at you emotionally.

Hearing from the 15 year old girl hiding under where the guy was standing as he shot her friends isn't exactly the kind of reporting that appeals to the intellect.

quote:

What a sick, twisted mind would come up with attacking a youth camp?


Let me begin my answer by reiterating that I am angry and upset at precisely this thing.

But the cynic in me is saying: someone making a very big omelet. Our political parties have youth organizations. Here, they effectively do wield some limited political power. But, more importantly, they build contact networks and get indoctrinated into the party line (this is particularly prevalent in the relevant party, essentially communists). The one attacked is the one that is associated with the main party in the present government, who wormed their way through the weaknesses in the parliamentary model from being virtually thrown out to gaining the key roles in a trilateral party block. Just in the course of this past 4-year term, they have defiled the country in ways too numerous and obscene to make sexual analogies about. This attack hits them everywhere it hurts, toe to head.

And yet I would like to draw a blank.

The sad thing is: it makes sense. And the present government are responsible for making it make sense. For making their own kids into targets that make perfect sense if you're willing to cross that line in the first place. They've designed a whole self-supporting ecosystem of corruption and sociopolitical problems that will destroy this nation, eventually. And from the cynical point of view, these kids are the future enemies of humanity in this country. It's kind of like the Minority Report issue, or the similar question of whether you would have gone back in time to kill Hitler if you could. This guy was back in time. And his actions should lend some extra weight to the difficulties in answering that question. Here's the real kicker: the youths' own answer, at the end of the cycle they are/were in, would be a resounding yes. Their future selves would sanction the kind of decision this guy made, except never so directly (if you can't bury it in the media, it's political suicide, after all).

But in the here and now, he's crossed a line. Something has to be worth saving to save it at the expense of something else. And if the means he has used is the only way to save ourselves, then we're beyond saving. At best, it could be seen as a part of an abortive play at a revolution, or a long term contribution to paving the way to one. Yet, there is nothing to gain, if it's the only way, and so he invalidates himself in doing it. The gov't buildings, I can live with. Hell, if he'd done it at night with nobody in them, I would laud it. But this thing with shooting kids is intolerable. They're not willing, or even knowing, participants in anything. It's immoral that they're made into such, and that they're thus turned into targets. Sometimes, though, you have to consider if the here and now is a point beyond which you can go in good conscience, and I would say 'no'.

'Course, he probably didn't reflect that much on it, the neonazi fucktard.

Health,
al-Aswad.

P.S.: Not as clear as I would have liked, but a modern political history review of a small country in Scandinavia is of interest to few, and exceptionally uninteresting to the topic at hand. In case it wasn't clear enough, the 'headline' version is: sometimes horrible deeds are necessary, but this was neither that time nor those deeds, and I've been unable to conceive of an adequate reason to justify his actions within any coherent frame of reference. So I have a hard time remaining detached about it.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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