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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 6:50:15 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Sorry but gator meat tastes bad, the texture is just not right.


Really?...someone told me it tastes like chicken!

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 6:52:43 AM   
pollux


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quote:

I have not heard one freakin' news person ask this question, how damn ignorant can some people be to not look into or even think of this dynamic???
And the abuse of alligators for titillation continues!


This is a pretty wacky post.

The dynamic is that alligators who are in heat and hungry are dangerous animals and if they get near you they will eat you.  Sometimes they have to be removed when they occupy areas too close to human beings, and the only way to do this is to tape their snout & manhandle them out of there.  I've seen this done many times and the guys who do this have balls the size of a house.

I suppose they could shoot them, though. Would that make you feel better?


< Message edited by pollux -- 5/19/2006 6:53:20 AM >

(in reply to brightspot)
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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 6:57:33 AM   
LaMalinche


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Sorry but gator meat tastes bad, the texture is just not right.


Really?...someone told me it tastes like chicken!


I have had alligator tail and it does taste like tough chicken.  It was yummy.

Best,

LaMalinche


*wondering where her sandwich is*


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:00:41 AM   
GddssBella


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G'morning all:

No offense brightspot, but are you even remotely familiar with alligators? Are you aware of their capabilities? Sounds to me like the animal control specialists were taking adequate precautions to minimize danger to themselves and the animal. The methods you described are commonplace for handling them. A gator is just one big muscle (as for the snickers, hush!). That tail whipping around can cut a person in half. Those jaws exert something like 35k lbs. pressure when biting down and only a few ounces when opening.

As several other posters have noted, let's not forget who's displacing what. Humans encroach on wildlife territory all the time, shrinking their available hunting/breeding grounds. As feastie pointed out, if you feed gators, they then view humans as food sources. You really want to advocate that?? Lastly, certain animals become too numerous in particular areas. They either have to be relocated or the population needs to be culled back.

I'm all for animal rights and advocate stronger measures to protect them. If you really want to get up in arms, protest animal testing in laboratories. They suffer in silence. Boycott fur coats. Eat greens. Don't wear leather. No, I'm not a P.E.T.A. member. *chuckling*


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:01:29 AM   
Phoenixandnika


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:04:25 AM   
JohnWarren


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You have to remember that you are getting your news from Inside Edition.  On the journalistic pecking order, they are somewhat above The Tattler.

Alligators are protected; the population is increasing; humans are similarly protected and their population is increasing.  The places where alligators like to live are increasingly becoming places where people are willing to live.  Alligators see people as food; in fact, they see just about any mobile or stationary piece of meat as food.  Many people, on the other hand, see alligators as cute, interesting and most importantly, stationary.  The first two they may be; the third, they are not.

Of course, the editors of Inside Edition fail to mention you are still more likely to die from an attack by a domesticated dog than by an alligator.  Guess the pictures aren't as pretty.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:22:57 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Of course, the editors of Inside Edition fail to mention you are still more likely to die from an attack by a domesticated dog than by an alligator.  Guess the pictures aren't as pretty.


Yes, and when that happens the dog doesn't get the kindness of being moved to a safer location....duct taped or not. They are killed.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:24:24 AM   
Phoenixandnika


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Gators that attack are typically killed as well but as I said so are many other animals that attack humans.
 


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 10:38:00 AM   
fastlane


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This is exactly why I root for the Miami Hurricanes....The Florida Gators are too controversial.

And if Gators taste like chicken...why not just order chicken?  It's cheaper!

Fastlane looks back down at his alligator boots, where's a subbie with a foot fetish when I need her! Kevin

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 10:42:39 AM   
Phoenixandnika


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I gotta ask.
Why do people say other food taste like chicken.
Growing up I heard this about frog legs.
To me they tasted like frog.
 
*laughs*
I wonder ..
 
Hey Kev,
Do you taste like chicken?
 
 


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 10:48:44 AM   
juliaoceania


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Inside Edition is like National Enquirer for TV. It is owned my Rupert Murdoch and basically it is not a reliable form of information.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/19/2006 10:49:05 AM >


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 10:48:46 AM   
kittensmailbox


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There has been a dry spell for a while. This means some of the natural lakes and rivers are drying up while some of the lakes in the residential areas, maintained for asthetic reasons, are still full. Means full of fish and attracks all kinds of animals, including alligators. So now, more large alligators are living closer to people. That's all.
 
Alligators are actually very passive. Not like the 20 foot Nile crocodiles you see on the Discovery channel taking down wildabeasts.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 12:19:31 PM   
kisshou


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For all those who posted about shooting the alligator, that won't even slow it down. This happened the other week when a sheriff's deputy shot an alligator in the head which only made the gator more angry. He then called animal control who came out and trapped him.

You have to be wary of all fresh water sources wether a sign is posted or not.

There actually were also a record nuber of shark attacks last year. Don't swim when the bait fish are running.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 12:34:25 PM   
fastlane


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Joined: 5/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

I gotta ask.
Why do people say other food taste like chicken.
Growing up I heard this about frog legs.
To me they tasted like frog.
 
*laughs*
I wonder ..
 
Hey Kev,
Do you taste like chicken?
 
 



LMAO.....I've never been told that I've tasted like chicken but have had several nice comments about my Pecker  Kevin

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Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 12:52:26 PM   
LadyMedhbh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

Gators that attack are typically killed as well but as I said so are many other animals that attack humans.
 



From what I remember reading in National Geographic several months ago, to date, the most dangerous animal is a human.  Humans maim and murder each other more than any other animal in the world.

I am against animal crulety as much as I am against human cruelty to each other (unless, of course it is consensual or consensual/non-consensual... that is a whole other subject that I agree with).



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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 1:00:43 PM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

I gotta ask.
Why do people say other food taste like chicken.
Growing up I heard this about frog legs.
To me they tasted like frog.
 
*laughs*
I wonder ..
 
Hey Kev,
Do you taste like chicken?
 
 



LMAO.....I've never been told that I've tasted like chicken but have had several nice comments about my Pecker  Kevin

Kev I had to ask seems like every time I turn around people are saying tastes like chicken!


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:00:58 PM   
fastlane


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"I DON'T TASTE LIKE NO DAMN CHICKEN"
Fastlane, gets scared and runs and hides after yelling so loud!

Bawk, Bawk,Bawk, Kevin

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Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:28:26 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot
I just watched 'Inside Edition' and they (among several news outlets) are talking like something "Mysterious" is making the alligators crazy human killing machines.


That something is very likely to be tourists acting like idiots.  If you enter gator habitat and act like food, or teach the gators to associate human hands with food, Darwin's dues tend to get paid. 

 
quote:

They show footage of a huge alligator ducktaped from above the eyes all the way down it's snout, arms and legs ducktaped behind it's back, roped tied and being lifted into the back of a pick-up and it is flailing around and they continue to say how crazy it is behaving, WTF? I think any animal being treated as such would be a bit pissed off and struggle to get free, yet they blame the alligator for being out of control!


Duct tape is a common and in fact humane method of immobilizing crocodilians for transport.  The tape over the eyes specifically triggers a vasovagal response that actually helps calm the animal.  Think of it as putting blinders on a horse.  Well cared for crocodilians in zoos that are being transported for veterinary care will be moved in exactly this manner, because it is humane and causes the least stress and risk to the animal. 

The flailing suggests however that the immobilization was not applied correctly.  Large crocodilians that are permitted to struggle for prolonged periods will self-induce a condition known as metabolic acidosis or capture acidosis, so minimizing their ability and desire to move with eye taping and hooding is good husbandry practice.  There were some excellent papers by Heard and Fleming online on the subject, but they seem to have vanished into the Internet aether.



quote:

I don't claim to know the answers but it does seem pretty simple to me that when this behavior has been a very, very uncomman and just recently surfaced, why don't they investagate that it just may be possible that something has gone wrong with the allegators food supply????


That would not be a reasonable conclusion.  Local ecosystems have not been impacted enough to affect the wide range of prey items utilized by this rather resourceful species. 

quote:


Feeding the alligators might be a simple solution to the problem, but No, it makes much better news to get people in a frenzy and have them support cruelty to animals, makes me sick!


Oh dear ghod no.  Feeding wild crocodilians is a horribly bad idea.  The normal behavior of a wild crocodilian is extremely human-aversive.  The behavior of a crocodilian that has learned that humans bring food can be termed "food aggressive".   Gators that are fed by idiots are the ones that end up being killed or relocated (which doesn't work so well in most cases), because they are the ones that behave in the "aggressive" manner taught to them.  Eg, approach people closely, get food.  Gators cannot tell the difference between a hot dog and a hand, so if you stick your hand out after a dozen people have been tossing hot dogs to teach the gator what to do, guess what happens. 

Crocodilians learn very rapidly, and behavioral management through operant conditioning is rapidly emerging as the best method of working with them in the zoo environment.  Crocodilians are remarkably smart and teachable critters, with meaningful social vocalizations, complex social structures and maternal care behaviors, including the recently documented behavior of a mother "feeding" her young while violently denying the male access to the same food supply.  Their brains are four times denser, neurally speaking, than a mammal's.  Which means that the little walnut sized brain is actually a lot more respectably functional than behaviorists were first thinking.  The practical application of this bit of scientific fact, in terms of idiots doing stupid pet tricks with the native herpetofauna, is that it doesn't take very long at all to teach a gator that people = food.  This is specifically why feeding or interacting with alligators is illegal in Florida.

I don't know what dumb shit they are currently spouting in the popular media about gator attacks.  I only read the scientific literature on the subject.  On the rare occasions I do see a story about crocodilians in the popular media, it is guaranteed to be good for a laugh.  As the Queen of Alice in Wonderland says, "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."  That's generally good practice for reading anything the popular media has to say on the subject.


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:33:44 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

Sounds to me like the animal control specialists were taking adequate precautions to minimize danger to themselves and the animal. The methods you described are commonplace for handling them. A gator is just one big muscle (as for the snickers, hush!). That tail whipping around can cut a person in half. Those jaws exert something like 35k lbs. pressure when biting down and only a few ounces when opening.


Cut a person in half, no.  Leave a hell of a bruise, sure.  Knock you out if you get nailed on the head, definitely.  Break bones, just maybe if you get it in the wrong place at the wrong angle.  But the gators whose caudal scutes are still sharp enough to break skin or tear clothes are the young'uns who can't muster the force of an unhappy 14-footer. 

As for the jaws, the force they can exert was measured in the Vliet study at around 2,000 PSI for large adult animals..  That's more than the average car crusher.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:39:39 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox
There has been a dry spell for a while. This means some of the natural lakes and rivers are drying up while some of the lakes in the residential areas, maintained for asthetic reasons, are still full. Means full of fish and attracks all kinds of animals, including alligators. So now, more large alligators are living closer to people. That's all.


Drought equals transmigration, especially for displaced juveniles and males.  So yes, this would be the probable cause of increased alligator/human interactions, along with rapidly increasing habitat encroachment from new construction.
 
quote:

Alligators are actually very passive. Not like the 20 foot Nile crocodiles you see on the Discovery channel taking down wildabeasts.



I would not call any crocodilian passive when there is food to be had and the temperature is comfortably in their species-optimal zone.  But yeah, Alligator mississipiensis is pretty mellow compared to some of the other crocodilian species.  And if Discovery channel is advertising C. niloticus as 20 feet, they're (as usual) full of shite.  Some of the porosus X siamensus hybrids have legitimately topped 19', but niloticus, I dunno. 

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