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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:39:54 PM   
krys


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I am guessing, since you are located in the midwest, you don't have a lot of experience with alligators.  Having grown up with them in my back yard, I can tell you that you are WAY off base in this post. 

If you do not capture and put down an alligator that has lost its fear of human do you know what it does?  It keeps eating people.  Alligators are territorial and unlikely to abandon a ready food source.  So as reliable a news outlet as "Inside Edition" is, I am afraid that any impression that they may have given that animal control is randomly hunting and killing any gator they come across is inaccurate.  

Alligators have very powerful jaws and legs.  Consequently, taping their jaws and legs is necessary during transport to keep the transport team in one relatively large chunk. 

Im afraid that thinking that local officials are not trying to ascertain what recent changes has caused this change in the animals' usual hunting pattern may also be caused by such reliable news sources as "Inside Edition".  They are trying to find the cause.  Our local governments have this wacky thing about trying to stop animals from eating the voters. 

There are several factors at work here, such as recent hurricanes, recent dry conditions and an overabundance of alligators.  Last year, only slightly more than half of the hunting licenses available were sold.  There are 1.5 - 2 million alligators in Florida.  Unfortunately, the solution to an overlarge animal population is hunting a portion of the population off so the remaining population does not starve.  So they will be making more licenses available, raising the number of gators one can take with a license and making it possible to apply for more than one license during the hunting period. 

Feeding the alligators would be the absolutely WORST thing to do.  When alligators are human fed, they lose their fear of humans.  And humans become a ready and available food source.  That is when the mob vengence mentality will take hold and many more animals than necessary will be killed, and wounded.   

I have to say, I am really pissed off at the stupidity and rightousness of spouting off on the "cruelty" of the situation when it seems you don't know anything about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

I can not believe how they are treating the alligators in Florida!
 
I just watched 'Inside Edition' and they (among several news outlets) are talking like something "Mysterious" is making the alligators crazy human killing machines.
 
They show footage of a huge alligator ducktaped from above the eyes all the way down it's snout, arms and legs ducktaped behind it's back, roped tied and being lifted into the back of a pick-up and it is flailing around and they continue to say how crazy it is behaving, WTF? I think any animal being treated as such would be a bit pissed off and struggle to get free, yet they blame the alligator for being out of control!
 
They act like it is "something mysterious" and everyone is so scared because the alligators are attacking humans and killing in some instances and everyone is freaked out and dumbfounded!
 
I don't claim to know the answers but it does seem pretty simple to me that when this behavior has been a very, very uncomman and just recently surfaced, why don't they investagate that it just may be possible that something has gone wrong with the allegators food supply????
I have not heard one freakin' news person ask this question, how damn ignorant can some people be to not look into or even think of this dynamic???
And the abuse of alligators for titillation continues!
 
I am just so pissed off at their stupidity and righteousness! They don't mention how phuckin' stupid people are to go down and sit next to the edge of a alligator infested pond!
And to not consider maybe something is killing off the food supply for the gators, like maybe a couple really bad hurricanes that could have dumped a bunch of toxic chit in the water!
 
Makes No Sense to me and I am totally astonished at how they are treating those gator's, like they are "mysterically inflicted" with some sort of cognitive defect that is all of a sudden causing them lash out and attack humans. I just don't get it!
 
Feeding the alligators might be a simple solution to the problem, but No, it makes much better news to get people in a frenzy and have them support cruelty to animals, makes me sick!
 
*Brightspot

(edited because my angry faces didn't work and believe me there was quite a few!)


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:43:54 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Of course, the editors of Inside Edition fail to mention you are still more likely to die from an attack by a domesticated dog than by an alligator.  Guess the pictures aren't as pretty.


Actually, horses kill more people than any other animal in North America, unless you count bees (via anaphylactic shock) as animals.  Dogs are a bit behind, statistically speaking.  Reptiles don't even make a ding on the charts.  But snake envenomation and alligator "attacks" make better press than yet another "horse fatally throws rider" scenario, so they get all the attention.  You're statistically more likely to die by lighting strike than by reptile if you live in North America.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:47:05 PM   
LaMalinche


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

I gotta ask.
Why do people say other food taste like chicken.
Growing up I heard this about frog legs.
To me they tasted like frog.
 
*laughs*
I wonder ..
 
Hey Kev,
Do you taste like chicken?
 
 




Because chicken is fairly bland and picks up whatever other flavors are introduced with it during cooking.

Best,

LaMalinche


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:47:09 PM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
We taxpayers have to pay for prisoners. Why don't we just send them all to Florida and let the alligators eat them?
 

Should we at least give them a trial first?

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 5:47:41 PM   
MistressSassy66


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I'll tell ya what pisses Me off...Is when people go build houses in
places they shouldnt.

What makes humans think they can just live anywhere with no reprecussions...where are the animals supposed to go?

I dont mean to say that animals out of control shouldnt be dealt with...I'm just thinking if MAYBE we stopped building where they live MAYBE they would stop eating people.


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 6:00:41 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: krys
Alligators have very powerful jaws and legs.  Consequently, taping their jaws and legs is necessary during transport to keep the transport team in one relatively large chunk. 


Naah.  That's actually the easy part.  A human of normal size and weight can effectively and gently stop a charging crocodilian that is up to a few feet longer than they are tall, with a sturdy pole and the knowledge of exactly where to put it and what to do with it once you've put it there.  That's no big deal, though I don't recommend anybody just start trying this at home for fun.  And gators are the easiest of all crocodilians to physically manage this way, for one because their jaws are broader and the chin lift is an easier target.   Doesn't work so well with the gharials and morphological look-alikes (Tomistoma and Gavialis), but with gators it's an absolute breeze.  Protecting the people is generally not the primary reason for taping up an alligator in transit.

The hard part is transporting crocodilians without them damaging themselves or each other.  They can do some fairly ugly damage to themselves during transport if they aren't restrained, not to mention it stresses them a lot more to be moved when they're not eye-taped.  Crocs will go into the "death roll" behavior under duress if not restrained, and a croc doing this on a hard surface can do itself real injury.  At a minimum it's going to lose a whole lot of teeth.  Padded hoods, or at least a towel and some duct tape, go a long way towards making the experience less traumatic and risky for the animal.

A lovely example of "how NOT to handle crocodilians humanely" can be seen on a segment of Crocodile Hunter where, presumably to make it look better for the cameras, a croc is noosed and dragged inside a cement pen *without* hooding or eye-taping.  The animal death-rolls on the rough concrete surface, spraying teeth everywhere and abrading itself terribly.  Looks great to folks who don't realize that there are more humane ways to capture and transport these animals that don't look as good for the camera.  Is very, very angry-making to watch for folks who do know better. 



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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 6:13:46 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
The dynamic is that alligators who are in heat and hungry are dangerous animals and if they get near you they will eat you.  Sometimes they have to be removed when they occupy areas too close to human beings, and the only way to do this is to tape their snout & manhandle them out of there.  I've seen this done many times and the guys who do this have balls the size of a house.


Crocodilians can get a bit testy during breeding season, especially a female on her nest mound.  Stay away from the nest mound (if you can recognize one; they're a bit subtle) and you'll generally be fine. 

Crocodilians operate on an "oxygen debt" metabolism, meaning that they can engage in short bursts of activity that outpace their metabolic intake for a lot longer than any mammal can.  These short bursts of activity take them a good ways into a level of metabolic acidosis that would be absolutely fatal for a mammal, from which they can recover slowly over the next 24 to 48 hours. Of their own volition, they won't go into oxygen debt past the point of natural recovery, though artificial stressors (eg, human captivity) can push them there fairly quickly.   In plan English, that translates to these critters being excellent sprinters and lousy endurance runners.  So the average person can outpace them easily as long as you're outside the immediate lunge and sprint range to begin with. 

Last I checked, testicles are not a requirement to work with crocodilians.  I don't think it would be very good safety protocol to use your genitals in wildife management tasks, especially if you suffer from schisotosome elephantiasis.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:13:01 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
We taxpayers have to pay for prisoners. Why don't we just send them all to Florida and let the alligators eat them?
 

Should we at least give them a trial first?


Yes.... a trial..... if they survive the gator attack, they're innocent lol..... just kidding.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:15:32 PM   
Phoenixandnika


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*laughs*
 
Would save on court costs and probably reduce the number or repeat offenders!
 
 
 


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:15:57 PM   
fastlane


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Fastlane tries to put a positive spin on everything. Gator clips anyone? 


< Message edited by fastlane -- 5/19/2006 7:17:30 PM >


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/19/2006 7:23:49 PM   
brightspot


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First I would like to say that it was not only Inside Edition that is running the story about the alligators.
There is the same kind of reporting coming from CNN and other national news broadcasts.
 
Second, I am not ignorant about alligators and their behavior or even the best way to move a gator to other living areas.
 
Third I do not advocate people going up to the edge of the water and feeding the gators, I was speaking along the lines of looking to see if something has killed off or reduced their food supply and somehow restocking their natural diet, they don't necessarily need to know it came from a human source.
 
The news people are claiming that alligator attacks where death has been a result was like 2 in the last decade and just in the recent weeks they have become aggressive and there have been 4 attacks 3 resulting in death. So what is wrong with this picture? So many of you think well just kill the alligators and think of why there is a problem later?
It's apparrent many of you could give a chit how the situation is handled, sad, very sad.
 
Yes I live in the midwest well more nothern part of the midwest and we have bears up here and the same thing happens when there is a bear attack, it is never a stupid human act that is blamed for an attack it is always brought down on the bear, so out come the guns and bears in the vicinity are tracked down and killed even when they have no idea which bear was involved in the attack. The same thing happens just as often when a hungry bear wanders into a community to find food, people get so frenzied that more often than not the bear is shot on the spot as opposed to tranqulized and moved to a more rural location.
 
It's the same with moose here, the mountain lion or cougars get the same rap where human's are building in their natural habitat. Right now the polar bears are starving because of global warming and if they come into a village looking for food they are often shot on the spot. Oh and let's not forget about the villified sharks that swin "our" oceans.
 
If someone in Africa is killed by a lion they don't go around killing lions, but that rarely happens because natives of  Africa have respect for their animal relatives, whether that be lions, cheetas, hyennas, whatever they know the habits of their wildlife and respect their territory and honor how dangerous they can be if intruded upon. Thats why when you see such shows as National Geographic you are allowed to see such film about the wild animals without them attacking the film crew because they play by the animal's rules, not some idiot human's.
 
Animal species are being killed off and erradicated everyday whether that be here in America or in the rain forests of South America.
Seems as if some of you have the attitude well if an animal has the audacity for any reason to attack a human they should be killed. Well I feel if the ignorance of the human race continues down this path of human supperiority complex and continue to disrespect the earth and it's animal inhabitants,  your grandchildren and their children will live in a very unbalanced world and many of the animals most take for granted will be gone.
 
I for one would rather see a lot less human beings around than loose whole wildlife populations.
 
Also while I can respect polygamy as an alternative lifestyle choice, I begin to have a probelm with men who take on three, four. five etc. wives and have forty, fifty, even sixty children and live off tax payers money to fund their isolated controlled villages.
 
I think humans need to quickly think of alternative action plans before outbreaks like these happen and not just become knee-jerk killing machines. I will even push so far as to narrow that group down to the White man, who at one time tired to eradicate fellow human beings who they felt were causing problems as they infiltrated this country, almost killed off the beavers to make money and may I mention killed thousands of buffullo for sport and to rob the Natives of their staple food that was also used for clothing, shelter and many other things. When the Native Americans killed it was for food and survival and the animals were respected and honored as life's breath itself and every last little part of that buffullo was used in some way.. And then with the same sense of distorted superiority captured the "sub-human" Africans and forced them into slavery. 
Native American and indiginous cultures have much more knowledge, respect and tolerance when it comes to sharing their space with the wild animals of the world.
 
So those of you who think this thread is a crock(no pun intended) I'd like to see how you feel about things in twenty or thirty years from now when more species are eradicated and not just species of frogs, bugs, or plants but also the larger species of wildlife I feel most of you take for granted and do not think need protection from ignorant human beings. I think human beings need protection from ourselves for most haven't a clue just how every little "fauxpas" actually has a huge impact down the line.
We can fly into space, send robot vehicles to mars, but we can't figure out to live peacefully with our wild life populations?
Again I ask what's wrong with this picture?
 
I guess y'all think it is also much better to keep building nucleur power plants, oil refineries in Alaska, running around in huge gas guzzling vehicals to meet your selfish needs as opposed to supporting ways to find alternative ways supplies of energy and ways to more intelligently use it.
Some human beings are so arrogant, ignorant, selfish creatures that our destruction by our own hands I feel is not that far down the road. When the average daily temperature starts reaching outrageous highs even here in the "Frozen Tundra" it will be to late to turn back folks! So no need to ask if I am not also passionate about other issues out there that man has tainted for their own selfish pleasures and conveniences.
 
*Brightspot



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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 5:06:40 AM   
iliv2servher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

I can not believe how they are treating the alligators in Florida!
 
I just watched 'Inside Edition' and they (among several news outlets) are talking like something "Mysterious" is making the alligators crazy human killing machines.
 
They show footage of a huge alligator ducktaped from above the eyes all the way down it's snout, arms and legs ducktaped behind it's back, roped tied and being lifted into the back of a pick-up and it is flailing around and they continue to say how crazy it is behaving, WTF? I think any animal being treated as such would be a bit pissed off and struggle to get free, yet they blame the alligator for being out of control!
 
They act like it is "something mysterious" and everyone is so scared because the alligators are attacking humans and killing in some instances and everyone is freaked out and dumbfounded!
 

 
brightspot,
 
I think you have answered your own question here.  People are freaked out and scared.  And we humans do have a policy of an-eye-for-an-eye when it comes to animals killing people, or even people killing people.  We often don't stop to think that they (the animals) were here first, and that it is we who are taking over their space.
 
Alligators are mostly territorial and not aggressive, unless their space is threatened.  I have a suspicion that changing climate conditions, weather patterns, depleation of the ozone layer, impending disasters, etc. all have a huge effect on animals. Our world is changing, and animals seems to sense all of these changes and act accordingly.
 
-iliv2servHer

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 7:05:41 AM   
mistoferin


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Wow....take a minute to breathe!

I am not exactly sure how we went from alligator attacks in Florida to polygamy, space travel, slavery, global warming and nuclear power.

It is tragic when stupid humans provoke the natural instinctive predatory responses of an animal. It does happen though and when it does it must be dealt with because once that instinct is awakened it generally does not go back to sleep. Would you propose that we shoot the stupid humans instead?

The Native Americans did not have to deal with the population explosion that we have today. The reality is that the population does indeed continue to grow. Unless you would like people to build homes on top of their homes, when their children come of age they will need someplace to live. You also have to take into account all of the people who immigrate to this country every year. Space is at a premium and yes, we have taken over much of the natural habitat of our animal neighbors.

That is why we have developed programs to deal with those issues. The Department of Natural Resources studies animal populations and regulates their numbers with programs such as hunting, breeding, restocking and relocation to maintain a healthy balance.

I live in Michigan which is relatively close to you, and I could not find any documentation of large populations of bear, moose or mountain lion in Illinois. I did find that in some areas (especially State Parks and on State owned land), the Department of Natural Resources has been introducing and controlling the moose and elk populations. I also found a few instances of black bear involvement with humans...but I could not find any evidence of possies of gun toting vigilantes who are descimating large numbers of these animals after an attack. Attacks also, seem to be the exception rather than the rule as very few incidences have been reported. The instances that I could find seemed to be dealt with and carried out under tight regulation. Maybe you could provide some data on where you are getting that type of information? I would be interested in reading it as it is alot different than the way they handle those types of incidents here and I would wonder why they would have such policies in place for two different states that border each other and whose demographics are nearly identical.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 7:20:33 AM   
yoursnatch


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The lack of water(habitat) and the fact that it is mating season makes them extra aggressive. Now thta we are getting some rain they will calm down. They only kill the gators that attack animals or people.The rest are caught and put on protected lands. Any where you live you need to know about any animal you might come in contact with. It is safer for both you and the animal.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 7:46:49 AM   
caitlyn


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Humans have the right to live here also. It's not like we are invaders from Mars, encroaching upon the Earth.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 9:39:36 AM   
PlayfulOne


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Oh Please,  that would be a neat trick if you could duct tape  an alligators "arms and legs" behind their back.  They don't streatch that way.  Now do you actually believe for a moment the duct tape is harming an alligators skin?  They hold their mouths shut because their power is in the closing not the opening, whether they do it with rope, those big rubber bands they use, or duct tape  doesn't matter.

Next your going to tell us we should not be binding and transporting submissives and slaves..

You have made some silly post in the past but I think this one takes the cake.

K

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 5/20/2006 9:41:20 AM >

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 10:10:49 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Humans have the right to live here also. It's not like we are invaders from Mars, encroaching upon the Earth.


Don't tell the PETA Patrol that.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 10:31:22 AM   
MistressSassy66


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Humans have the right to live here also. It's not like we are invaders from Mars, encroaching upon the Earth.





We may have the right to live here,but what gives Us the right to kill them to build a house.

As far as being invaders...humans are invaders on the animals territories.
Have you not seen pics of the rain forest?I dont think the elephants were driving the bulldozers.

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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 11:01:36 AM   
champagnewishes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

Kevin looks down at his alligator boots and is filled with guilt.  Hey, they were on sale, what can I say?


...but the real question...was duct tape used in the capture of the gator for those boots? 


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RE: I am Soooooooo Pissed.... - 5/20/2006 11:42:12 AM   
Dustyn


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Alligators/crocodiles are one of the ultimate killing machines in nature, similar to killer whales or great white sharks.  If it is edible and near they're hunting territory, it's fair game.  The 'gators were in Florida long before people were.  Perhaps if we'd stop breeding like rabbits on viagra, we wouldn't hae quite the crowding problems we do.  Besides, I have no sympathy in the least for anything that is stupid enough to purposely and willingly live in 'gator land.

There is a price for stupidity and these people that have been attacked pay an appropriate cost.  Like the other great killing machines, 'gators have no fear of human beings.  If they did, they wouldn't go hunting in people's backyards or take a leisurely dip in their pools.

- Dustyn


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