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Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:03:15 PM

Firebirdseeking

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am genuinely puzzled about some things I have found them throughout my readings here. An example: "I don't have to keep up. If he wants to fuck me, then he fucks me. It's not important whether I particularly feel like sex at the time or not. I'm not expected to feel hot or horny just because he does. I AM expected to accept being fucked when he wants to.
I don't do it out of love or a desire to serve, I do it because he's the boss, he wants to fuck and that's how our relationship is run."

Years ago, I read that idiot John Gray's Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. In one of his chapters, he tries to make a point that sometimes men just want to fuck and not be "bothered" with "foreplay". He suggested that on such occasions, that the two people work it out, maybe cut a little deal where she goes and gets herself "ready", and then he just comes in and goes at it with her. (Next day she could get a nice backrub in exchange for getting fucked with no foreplay). Frankly, I felt furious that a man could not be "bothered" to take the time to insure that his female partner was stimulated, mentally, physically and emotionally. It struck a nerve with me, because it not only lacked in regard for the partner, but for me, it was a very poor model of what a man is, including, and especially, a dominant man. I am married to my dominant, and I cannot imagine him ever taking me without regard for how I feel.

So I find I am genuinely confused over what John Gray thought was OK, and with some of what is said here, and how it is accepted. How are they different??

Post #: 1

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:13:15 PM

Lockit

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Would it be easier coming from a woman?

I don't like a barter system for sex. I think very poorly of it and I don't think it is a healthy thing. Maybe because of where I come from and men having to beg their wives to have sex in vanilla relationships.

A man better be concerned about my sexual needs or he won't be with me, but... there are times when I will not allow foreplay and I just want to get it good. I have left standing orders that, that is exactly what I want in the mornings. I love a quicky most any time of day, unless that is all I get. Then we have a problem.

So if respect and everything else is in place, I see nothing wrong with it. It is when disrespect or disregard in general are a factor that I would have an issue with it. That goes for my use of a man as well. He deserves respect and his needs met. The day I demand and he feels used in a manner that isn't good, we have other issues to attend to.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 8/20/2011 9:14:26 PM >

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:31:31 PM

slaveluci

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

am genuinely puzzled about some things I have found them throughout my readings here. An example: "I don't have to keep up. If he wants to fuck me, then he fucks me. It's not important whether I particularly feel like sex at the time or not. I'm not expected to feel hot or horny just because he does. I AM expected to accept being fucked when he wants to.
I don't do it out of love or a desire to serve, I do it because he's the boss, he wants to fuck and that's how our relationship is run."

I see nothing at all wrong or puzzling about this working for a couple. As long as both of them agree this is how it's going to be from the beginning, what is the problem? It obviously doesn't work for everyone but I have been in a relationship like that and it worked for me. I found it hot to be obedient in that way even if I wasn't "in the mood" when it started. I always was by the end

That's still how I feel about it. Whether it's sex or simply obeying any order, if I just do it when I feel like it, how subservient is that?

quote:

Years ago, I read that idiot John Gray's Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. In one of his chapters, he tries to make a point that sometimes men just want to fuck and not be "bothered" with "foreplay". He suggested that on such occasions, that the two people work it out, maybe cut a little deal where she goes and gets herself "ready", and then he just comes in and goes at it with her. (Next day she could get a nice backrub in exchange for getting fucked with no foreplay). Frankly, I felt furious that a man could not be "bothered" to take the time to insure that his female partner was stimulated, mentally, physically and emotionally. It struck a nerve with me, because it not only lacked in regard for the partner, but for me, it was a very poor model of what a man is, including, and especially, a dominant man. I am married to my dominant, and I cannot imagine him ever taking me without regard for how I feel.

I am married to my Master as well. If he NEVER "bothered to take time" to give me any pleasure, it would be a sad, unfulfilling relationship. Just because He doesn't do everything I want every time I want it doesn't bother me at all. Sometimes - well, actually most times - I don't want Him checking in with me to make sure I'm ready and "in the mood" to do what He wants. I just want Him to tell me to do it or start doing what He wants. I will comply and I will end up liking it - probably. If I don't, so what? I'll live and the next time I will be in the mood and it won't harm our relationship one iota because He did what He wanted when He wanted it. As a matter of fact, it strengthens our relationship because it reminds me of our dynamic and of who is in charge. I never question that He is a man and a great one at that. I don't want a man who submits to me. Not attractive in the least

luci

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:35:43 PM

Firebirdseeking

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I agree, I also detest bartering for sex. It used to be a rather popular approach among mental health professionals - but one I never bought into.

I agree with what you said, Lockit. The problem is, that a fair amount of what I hear sounds like disregard. Not necessarily disrespect, but disregard. I think it is a commonly held belief here that a dominant get sex when he (or she) wants it, how he wants it and where he wants it. That sounds all about him, doesnt it? I would think that also sounds like disregard.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 4

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:43:16 PM

Lockit

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Firebirdseeking, if you feel as you do, then that is how you feel. There is no shame or anything wrong with that. Everyone is different. I am sure there was a time in my life when I may have felt the same way. A man almost glibly saying she should barter and give him what he wanted, would have sent me into an almost women's lib stance and I never was a women's libber! lol

Then again, I am not submissive and had some real fights in life to prove I wasn't going to be a man's toy. So I am totally coming from a different place in the dominance and submissive positioning. However I think that with enough love and respect, one won't feel like that.

I can relate to a man simply wanting to get it on. But that is me... not you. You must live true to yourself and how you feel.

I wanted to add. I can see where someone has been disrespected in life, by men and how that could play out even with a healthy relationship. The residue of the past. I know I had that a long time ago. Hell, I may have some now. lol I will jump real fast if I think a man wants me to be his play toy whether that is my playing with him kink wise or being used in some manner. So if I was in a relationship and started feeling like that... we would be talking very seriously about it. There might be some healing needed.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 8/20/2011 9:49:56 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:44:54 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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Disregard? No, quite the opposite. It turns me on to just be taken. It's what it means to be owned, at least to me. I belong to Hanners, that turns me on. When she just pushes me to my knees and shoves my face into her crotch, I am there. I am turned on and ready. It doesn't matter if I wasn't turned on before.

You are assuming your view of sex applies to others. it doesn't. in my case I like being reminded that my body belongs to her, to do whatever she wants with. I can be sitting happily watching a movie and she comes in flips me over and starts stuffing things up me, and I am peaking almost right away, cumming my heart out in minutes. Don't get me wrong, I like making love slowly with loads of foreplay and stuff too, but I also just love being used. The slow stuff is love-making, the other is fucking. Each has it's time and place.

Hope that helps a little.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

Post #: 6

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:47:52 PM

littlewonder

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I'm one of those people who is in a relationship with a Dom who takes what he wants when he wants, how he wants. It's what I agreed to when I became his slave. Yup, there are times when there's very little disregard for what I want but there are times when he gives a lot of regard for what I want. Just because he does what he wants doesn't mean he doesn't respect or care for me. If that were true I wouldn't be in a relationship with him. It just means that he's the boss and what he says goes. I knew that when I said I would be his slave.

As He likes to say "this is not a democracy".

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 9:53:04 PM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

am genuinely puzzled about some things I have found them throughout my readings here. An example: "I don't have to keep up. If he wants to fuck me, then he fucks me. It's not important whether I particularly feel like sex at the time or not. I'm not expected to feel hot or horny just because he does. I AM expected to accept being fucked when he wants to. I don't do it out of love or a desire to serve, I do it because he's the boss, he wants to fuck and that's how our relationship is run."

I suppose it depends on how you're wired and what dynamic you're involved in? This may help...

Excerpt: Why I Love Being a Slave

When engaging in non-BDSM (A.K.A. “vanilla”) sex, I thought too much. I was constantly trying to gauge what the man wanted from me, and pleasure him. I was also seeking my own pleasure, but often couldn’t truly experience it, because I was so preoccupied with performance. Often I only sought to come as a means to satisfy the man, and not myself. I would pressure myself relentlessly to orgasm because I wanted my partner to feel like a stud. I faked orgasms sometimes. In many ways, sex became a chore during which I had to exercise extreme focus to get off so my partner would feel satisfied, while also anticipating and fulfilling his needs. The only time I truly felt free of pressure was when I masturbated, and during those times, I fantasized about being taken and dominated.

Why did I want to be taken and dominated? Because sexually, I need to give up all control. The way this plays out in real life is that I concede to my Master the right to use my body for his pleasure, whenever he wants, however he wants. I obey all of his sexual commands, whether it is to suck his cock at 2 AM, to bend over the kitchen counter in the middle of cooking dinner so he can fuck me, or to spread my legs wide over the legs of a chair so he can lick my pussy. He has complete access to all areas of my body at all times and controls and directs all of our sexual encounters.

The benefits to him are obvious: he can take his pleasure at any time, and know that I am not only willing, but deeply satisfied by doing things this way.

The benefits to me are:

I no longer have to guess at what he wants. He tells me what he wants, or takes what he wants. It is no longer my responsibility to figure it out, and my mind is clear and free.

I no longer have to pressure myself to respond sexually. My sexual response is not at issue — only his is. If I happen to come, so be it. If I don’t, so what. If he wants to give or withhold orgasms to and from me, that’s his decision, not mine. My only responsibility is to be mentally present, feel, and do as he tells me. That’s all. And therein lies the magic — I am able to enjoy sex and sexually related activities as I never could before.

Source: http://consensualslave.wordpress.com/category/opinion/

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Post #: 8

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:04:39 PM

BurntKitty

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I find it hot to be taken unexpectedly, or when he wants it "just because." It works for us.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:07:16 PM

Firebirdseeking

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I am not assuming my view of sex applies to others. I chose my wording very carefully in order to not give that impression. That is why I posted the question and that is why it is titled "Genuinely puzzled".

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 10

RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:07:58 PM

Tantriqu

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To the OP: remember who John Gray is? The creepy little hair-plugged previously asexual Mahareshi devotee, who divorced his first wife when she became more famous than he? He wrote to make money and perpetuate gender stereotypes, and has absolutely no real credentials.
For me, ramming a strapon into a man who is not physically and mentally prepared for penetration is a distinct turn-off, and would be just this side of rape. That being said, I love a man who gets turned on when I push him off the couch, down on his knees and make him beg to have his smile between my thighs.
Being dominant, am I more Martian than Venusian? Nah, that's just pop-psychology.
As everyone else says, men and women are from Earth: deal with it.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:10:53 PM

Firebirdseeking

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That is not what is puzzling to me. I understand you find it hot to be taken "just because". I am trying to figure out how this is different from Grey's contention that its OK for men to just want intercourse and that women should "get themselves ready" for these occasions. I am trying to understand my own reaction that these things feel similar to me. I am not debating that YOU may find it hot, I get that.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:22:50 PM

sexyred1

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You are asking for opinions about what a writer has written.

People are telling you that sometimes they think it is hot to be taken, or they love to be ready for their partner, even if they are not in the mood.

None of which has anything to do with being disregarded.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:24:08 PM

Firebirdseeking

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Sure do remember that he was a little creep! I threw his book in the trash. : ) and yes, his credentials were questionable too -

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:25:16 PM

Firebirdseeking

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Point taken.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:25:40 PM

littlewonder

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If you don't like the thought of "getting ready for it" then don't. Call the shots, tell him when or if you will have sex and how. That's your perogative.

As for the writer, yeah a lot of men in the world just want intercourse. Should women just get used to it and prepare themselves? I dunno. I don't really care about other people's relationships and what they do. For me yes that's part of the way relationships work for me. It may not for anyone else. What do I care?

Why should you care? Why do you have to reconcile it? You don't want that? Then don't do that. Do what you want.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:40:46 PM

angelikaJ

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I think it is different because the context is different.

We want to be owned.
We need to be owned.

We don't want a backrub the next day; we want whatever yummy thing s/he decides will be on the menu... (which in fact might be a backrub).

John Gray's scenario is leaning more towards the idea that men are the sexual beings and women kind of have to put up with that in order to keep a guy happy... .

The difference in the scenario is that being taken is the foreplay... and the middle and the end... until next time.

It goes back to how we define our relationships and the perameters within them.
John Gray doesn't have chapters on spanking or rope bondage.
He wrote his book based on a view of a traditional vanilla so called egalitarian relationship. And as it turns out, it's not necessarily very fair.

In my relationship with my Master, things aren't always "fair" and that is because as we define it, what is fair isn't always what is equitable.

But I am not disregarded.
And as it turns out in this dynamic He loves to turn me on.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/20/2011 10:44:32 PM

Firebirdseeking

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Great points, very helpful.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:11:20 AM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

...it is a commonly held belief here that a dominant gets sex when he (or she) wants it, how he wants it and where he wants it. That sounds all about him, doesnt it? I would think that also sounds like disregard.

All about him? No. Think of it this way... if it makes her happy to please him, and her use does so, then in pleasing him, she is pleasing herself -- and as such, he has not "disregarded" her, but loved her in a way that pleases them both.

Analogy: For some, roses bring them great joy -- and her joy brings him great happiness. For others, her use brings him great joy -- and his joy brings her great happiness. Thus, a win/win for BOTH, and neither has been "disregarded" by the other.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:26:37 AM

MyVision

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A while ago on the radio..there was a female Dr., a sexuologist (or something like that) that said something I didn't expect.
It was about males wanting sex, wanting to experiment...and the female regular is not in the mood.
Instead of blaming the male, she said that "woman could at least try to get in the mood, instead of saying no"
I was shocked hearing it...lol. But yes..trying to understand your partner and work on it....is sometimes needed.

On the other side;
In a D/s relation..I could always take sex as I want it. My slaves accept it, because that is what we agreed on.
There was no need for them to be in the mood for certain sex. I have empathy...so I know when it is really a shit moment or not.
In bad moments I let them be, I am not a monster. In other moments..they struggle a bit..and then enjoy :P

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

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