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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 4:57:15 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

I see nothing at all wrong or puzzling about this working for a couple. As long as both of them agree this is how it's going to be from the beginning, what is the problem? It obviously doesn't work for everyone but I have been in a relationship like that and it worked for me. I found it hot to be obedient in that way even if I wasn't "in the mood" when it started. I always was by the end That's still how I feel about it. Whether it's sex or simply obeying any order, if I just do it when I feel like it, how subservient is that?


QFT! I have been in a dynamic like that and it never failed to turn me on that my Master would just fuck me, whether I was ready or not. I can guarantee that by the time he had been fucking me for a very short time I was wet and raring to go.

#7

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 5:14:33 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

QFT! I have been in a dynamic like that and it never failed to turn me on that my Master would just fuck me, whether I was ready or not. I can guarantee that by the time he had been fucking me for a very short time I was wet and raring to go.

#7


quoting this QFT for more truth. =p

OP, frankly i don't see that as disregard. even in a vanilla relationship, i think what that author is calling for isn't as totally horrible as it might sound. i think for many it probably caused a knee-jerk "that's horrible!" response, but a lot of men experience a good deal of rejection from partners who only want sex on their very specific terms -- that can't be all that fair to them, either. many women demand to be "understood" as women, and to have their needs looked after, well why can't we be bothered to understand men?

but anyway, even if i was with a woman, this type of arrangement would be fine with me. there are female Dominants who want the same type of relationship with their subs, so it's really not just a male thing. but for many s-types, there is a part of us that really thrives under this type of relationship.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 5:40:38 AM   
DecadentDesire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

That is not what is puzzling to me. I understand you find it hot to be taken "just because". I am trying to figure out how this is different from Grey's contention that its OK for men to just want intercourse and that women should "get themselves ready" for these occasions. I am trying to understand my own reaction that these things feel similar to me. I am not debating that YOU may find it hot, I get that.


The difference is one person finds it sexually arousing to be "taken" and the other does not. You seem to be focused on the "lack of pleasure" element of your scenario above, an idea of a man coming home from work, wanting sex, and "taking" it while the woman yawns and really receives very little pleasure from the act.

However, personally, it's not an applicable scenario to my D/S dynamics or my sexual experiences with submissive women. With the women I have been with, the act of being "taken" and the focus on the dominant's pleasure instead of their own IS a form of sexual foreplay. It's symbiotic.




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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 5:52:36 AM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		Lily and Decadent:

First, I believe there are countless men that do NOTHING to provide leadership in an intimate relationship, and do NOTHING to create a sense of intimacy. So yes, for many women, I do think there is that knee jerk reaction, to want sex totally out of context. I myself have experienced this in a long marriage before I realized I was submissive and needed dominance. I obviously agree that there is a difference in the dynamics of a vanilla versus D/s or M/s relationship. I guess that is the answer to my question.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 6:19:22 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
OP, frankly i don't see that as disregard. even in a vanilla relationship, i think what that author is calling for isn't as totally horrible as it might sound.


Despite good old John Gray's sage counsel on the matter, I hated the pressure to 'take a woman' aggressively and without warning. And I got it, frequently, from sub-inclined partners who believed that this was what men, all men, were 'hard-wired' to want to do. Once, I even told a partner to 'fuck off and find an engineer to make a robot for the purpose'.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 6:47:29 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		In addition, the fact that usually he's this very controlled, very patient, very caring man who suddenly snaps and has to have me - is one hell of an ego trip for me. It makes me feel incredibly desirable, and that's a good thing.

Now if this was all he ever wanted and I was never sexually satisfied, that would be something else. But it isn't. And we're not with men who are jerks and don't ever care about us being happy. It isn't what always happens, just sometimes.

It also removes the pressure on you to be interested in sex, and that's a good thing. Not having to switch gears at the end of the night and worry if tonight he wants sex and me have to stop worrying about the washing machine acting up again and work at becoming aroused. By removing the pressure, it's also easier to be aroused. So if I do, great. If not, no problem and it will happen next time. Assuming that next time he won't decide to amuse himself by making me orgasm 27 times. Which also sometimes happens.

Consider it like picking a restaurant to go to. You might go out for Italian three times straight but you know that eventually you'll get to go to the Thai place you prefer. It isn't every other time, you got to pick last time so now I do. It's that eventually everyone's needs are met.


< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/21/2011 6:49:10 AM >

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 8:17:47 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
As He likes to say "this is not a democracy".



Ha ha ha... I tell my students that!


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 8:47:19 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe it is the way I am wired but I never understood why some people needed foreplay before being "taken". When my mate shoves me to the bed my mind already gears up for sex. When my pants or skirt gets yanked off, my nipples tighten and my cunt gets wet. When I am with a man who knows me well enough to stick his dick in me he knows me well enough to know that many times I enjoy just being fucked hard, fast, and without formalities. This does not mean it always happens that way. Sometimes it is slow, intense, pain and pleasure, hours and hours of build up and release. If I am intimate with someone, then both of those type of play are likely.
It works for me because when I choose someone I know they care about what flips my buttons. It would not work with some random Joe that only wants to get his dick wet.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 11:47:56 AM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		I'm not much for semantic arguments so I won't address 'disrepect' vs 'disregard' but I will say that her level of arousal means nothing to me in terms of whether we do or don't have sex or in what way. If she's hot and bothered and gagging for it, good for her. If not, c'est la vie. I usually end up with a lot of foreplay because I enjoy it, but if I'm not in the mood for foreplay there is no foreplay. There's no 'if we skip foreplay tonight ill rub your feet tomorrow' or whatever Gray talks about, because I'm not much for negotiation, but neither is there day-to-day reciprocity unless I desire it. I enjoy pleasuring a partner for hours a time without getting off myself on occasion too, but it occurs because it's something I enjoy not because equality demands it. In short, I reserve the right to have a sexual encounter occur precisely the way I want it to for precisely the period of time I want it to with precisely the frequency I want it to, no questions asked.

Is that unfair? Absolutely. Is it out of sync with modern gender politics? In some sense, yes. Yet, if that isn't something that someone gets off on, something that they desire, they are welcome to seek elsewhere. I am not kidnapping women off the street to undergo this treatment, I am seeking a partner or partners who share my desires and fulfilling them mutually.

In short, do not assume that just because what you want and what others have are different than they are unhappy.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:23:11 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Epy, even though there's no tit for tat, taking turns. I imagine that over all both people's needs do get met. That things do eventually balance out.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/21/2011 12:26:15 PM >

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:27:52 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		They absolutely do, or at least have in the past, which is in large part because that's what gets the people I sync with off.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:33:46 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:36:17 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		starts feeling like she's the only slave who adores foreplay hhrrmmpphh...doesn't mean I get it all the time but yeah foreplay gets me going when I need a push.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 12:47:12 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		Nope. You're not the only one. I adore it too. Sometimes. I don't, however, require it......luci

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 1:13:23 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking
I think it is a commonly held belief here that a dominant get sex when he (or she) wants it, how he wants it and where he wants it. That sounds all about him, doesnt it?


Why do people profess to want a dominant/submissive relationship when they clearly do not?


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 2:51:17 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		What's the fucking issue? It's not YOU that is being treated this way, so why the fuck should you care how others run THEIR personal relationships. It's none of your fucking business if another woman's man wants to just fuck her and she's ok with that.

Get off your fucking high horse and stop worrying about other people's relationships.

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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 4:55:24 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking
I think it is a commonly held belief here that a dominant get sex when he (or she) wants it, how he wants it and where he wants it. That sounds all about him, doesnt it?


Why do people profess to want a dominant/submissive relationship when they clearly do not?



Responding to my own post to add to the thought. I cannot attribute this quote since I cannot recall who wrote it. I saved it from a post on another fetish forum years ago. I think it relates to the topic and to the portion of Firebirdseeking's post that I quoted above quite well.

The quote:

"A Dom I once adored used to love to flog me. There was no grace in his efforts. There was no warm up, no softening of blows or ebbs and flows in the ferocity of his swings. I used to watch in envy on the rare occasion that we were in a position to witness others play.

I asked him one day why his "style" was so different. He said he flogged me for his pleasure, not mine. I laughed and was happy with that. One night (my birthday) he decided to give me a treat. He copied the style of others and I quickly got bored and didn't feel at all happy.

I knew HE wasn't having fun. I couldn't enjoy it at all. We had a very good connection and he could tell something was wrong. He stopped and asked why I didn't seem to be enjoying it. I told him.... bless his heart... He slapped my face fucking hard and hauled me on to the cross and let that flogger rip into my skin with the windows open as the cold winter air hit my skin.

It's not about what I want.. it's about what he wants... and learning to want that as much as he does. When you reach that point - it's all good."

My submissive/girlfriend sums it up pretty well herself. "Either you want to submit or you don't". That pretty much says it all





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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 5:10:25 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

What's the fucking issue? It's not YOU that is being treated this way, so why the fuck should you care how others run THEIR personal relationships. It's none of your fucking business if another woman's man wants to just fuck her and she's ok with that.

Get off your fucking high horse and stop worrying about other people's relationships.


She knows all that, IM. It seems like you haven't read beyond the OP.

It'd be an intensely stupid femsub who didn't realise that femsubs in general get off on being 'used' - taken without thought for their own pleasure, etc, etc. FBS doesn't strike me as an intensely stupid femsub.


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 7:19:23 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i don't really see the OP as being on a high horse; to me it seems like she doesn't understand this type of relationship, and admits to her own negative thoughts about it, while also trying to find some insight into why others enjoy it.

the story that DomImus quoted sums it up really well. ^_^


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RE: Genuinely puzzled - 8/21/2011 7:37:24 PM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~



LMAO.......me...I prefer biker foreplay;


"Fuck?" asks biker male

"Mmmm..(inset growly noises here)" answers biker female

Insert appropriate cut away scene to cover animalistic fucking going on

"Ride now" asks biker male

"Yup......(insert bike reving noises here)" answers biker female

Easy......

Ok seriously, I LIKE that grab ya, toss ya down, start banging the hell out of ya.....it is instant ready for me.


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