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RE: Child support - 5/20/2006 11:33:52 PM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Only among racists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Jewish lawyers are incredibly effective and sharp as a tack. They have a certain infamy about them.

No.. Nice try. I know you are trying to make a jab, but you should choose a more appropriate post to do it in, where you will actually stand a chance of making an effective, factual point.

There is nothing racist about admiring the skills of Jewish lawyers. They are damn good at what they do and worth every cent. Jewish people also make fantastic accountants and are highly respected in their field, for good reason. They know their jewelry too. I have nothing but respect for them, although I was not too crazy about dealing with them as wholesalers. I find the Chinese do a better job at that.

For different matters, as mentioned, different lawyers are effective. I have a fantastic family law lawyer who is a white anglo-saxon. He is in the good graces of the Court and is very deadly. I have never lost a case with him and always gotten whatever I wanted, even when he thought it could not be done.

So you see, your comment was completely misguided and born out of bitterness. That is fine, but choose your outlet wisely.

I think he made an effective, factual point... you are a racist. Consulting the dictionary:

rac·ism

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

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RE: Child support - 5/20/2006 11:35:44 PM

SirKenin

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Umm.. Put racist in context if you would. That would really be a good start. Any idiot can drag a definition out of a dictionary, but proper application is not quite as simple, as you have just demonstrated.

How about we start with the fact that the presumption is made that you are assuming that your race is superior. Acknowledging the skills of a particular culture is not the appropriate usage of the term.

Sorry. (well, not really)

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/20/2006 11:37:28 PM >

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RE: Child support - 5/20/2006 11:58:22 PM

MistressLorelei

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In context you are calling Jewish people cheap (wholesaler comment), money hungry ('they cost more'), who are better suited for financial work because they are Jewish... and they know their jewelry... what?. Italian lawyers would be best for criminal cases? You are labeling entire groups of people based on your own perceptions, and calling it fact... that is racism. Your context is quite clear. However, conversing with a racist is a pointless waste of time. Ignorance is a dangerous thing.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:01:25 AM

Wulfchyld

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What are the odds of moving this to a "Racial slur" thread and getting back to supporting the OP with his problem?

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:21:02 AM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

In context you are calling Jewish people cheap (wholesaler comment), money hungry ('they cost more'), who are better suited for financial work because they are Jewish... and they know their jewelry... what?. Italian lawyers would be best for criminal cases? You are labeling entire groups of people based on your own perceptions, and calling it fact... that is racism. Your context is quite clear. However, conversing with a racist is a pointless waste of time. Ignorance is a dangerous thing.

Hmmm. The best thing we could do right now is start by not putting words in My mouth. Nowhere did I say that Jewish people are cheap. That was not My issue with them as a wholesaler. They were as fair as anybody else, no question. Also, your insinuation that I am trying to say that Jewish people try to basically squeeze every last dollar out of you for jewelry is crap as well, and putting words in My mouth. It is a well known fact that a lot of highly respected jewellers are Jewish, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you do not like it, that is tough shit. Do not try and make your personal issues Mine. I will not stand for it. It does not help your case by twisting what I say. It does make you sound like a bit of an ass though.

I acknowledge that certain cultures have demonstrated time and again excellent skills in certain environments. Every race on the planet has developed specific talents where they excel and I freely acknowledge all of them and appreciate them for it. I for one have nothing against any race, nor do I think that My race is superior. Therefore, by definition I am not racist.

But, there is no sense in arguing with a stubborn flamer. I think you know where you can put your "racist" accusations.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/21/2006 12:35:19 AM >

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:54:28 AM

Lordandmaster

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It's the OP who brought in the racial stereotypes, Wulfchyld.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

What are the odds of moving this to a "Racial slur" thread and getting back to supporting the OP with his problem?

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:58:49 AM

Lordandmaster

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This is kind of like being charged with stealing a car, and protesting that you couldn't have stolen it because the owner left it unlocked. You're not a racist but you're prepared to say asinine things like "Chinese people are better wholesalers than Jews?" Stereotypes like that are racist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

There is nothing racist about admiring the skills of Jewish lawyers. They are damn good at what they do and worth every cent. Jewish people also make fantastic accountants and are highly respected in their field, for good reason. They know their jewelry too. I have nothing but respect for them, although I was not too crazy about dealing with them as wholesalers. I find the Chinese do a better job at that.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 1:08:08 AM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

This is kind of like being charged with stealing a car, and protesting that you couldn't have stolen it because the owner left it unlocked. You're not a racist but you're prepared to say asinine things like "Chinese people are better wholesalers than Jews?" Stereotypes like that are racist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

There is nothing racist about admiring the skills of Jewish lawyers. They are damn good at what they do and worth every cent. Jewish people also make fantastic accountants and are highly respected in their field, for good reason. They know their jewelry too. I have nothing but respect for them, although I was not too crazy about dealing with them as wholesalers. I find the Chinese do a better job at that.

No it is not racist at all. It is acknowledging that the Chinese have exceled in the field of distrubing products. I love dealing with them. That is not the fault of Jewish people. They just have their strengths in other areas is all.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 1:24:34 AM

Wulfchyld

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I always had good luck with Pakistani for making wholesale purchases.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 1:26:00 AM

mons

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earthgoddess522

It never goes away i am owned in arrears
0ver 60,000 and guess what they found him
and just becasue they are 18 it does not stop it 'will pay
still, Go after him and believe me he willwish he had paid
long ago. My son father also tried to take him, but the Judge
saw what he was trying to do oh he had so much more money then i.
I was struggling to make ends meet and i was not on wefare so i was so hard
but now he is paying until he pays up or i will and i do not mean to be
mad i have forgave him long ago but i will get any things he has left he was in the
army, he is a very intelligent man but could not see to clothes or help me at all
it hurt my son the must i may never forget him for that, but you can stil go after your
husband, keep calling the child support oiffice write letters to anyone who is in office
i wish you the best of luck

mons/jane

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 2:18:46 AM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

I always had good luck with Pakistani for making wholesale purchases.

Not me. I have been ripped off by them on numerous occasions. I have even had to sue them in Court, which was quite upsetting. I deal with one now who is not too bad, a very personable fellow who tries hard, but other than that it is the Chinese. You can not help but like them. They are awesome.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/21/2006 2:20:09 AM >

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 6:02:53 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

Hmmm. The best thing we could do right now is start by not putting words in My mouth. Nowhere did I say that Jewish people are cheap. That was not My issue with them as a wholesaler. They were as fair as anybody else, no question. Also, your insinuation that I am trying to say that Jewish people try to basically squeeze every last dollar out of you for jewelry is crap as well, and putting words in My mouth. It is a well known fact that a lot of highly respected jewellers are Jewish, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you do not like it, that is tough shit. Do not try and make your personal issues Mine. I will not stand for it. It does not help your case by twisting what I say. It does make you sound like a bit of an ass though.

It's not often I disagree with Lam, but in this case I partially disagree with him.

I’m absolutely positive you could present a very sound argument that the Jewish people on a whole are very resourceful strategists/ thinkers, without having racism called into question.

In another thread, I make a case that Muslim fanatics could not have masterminded a sophisticated plot that imploded the two towers and building-seven without help from insiders.

Now…. Do I make this case because the Muslim extremists in question are Arabs, and I think Arabs on a whole are stupid? No…. absolutely not. However, I can and will argue the case-that to this very day, the fanatical idealism from a left-over twelfth century Arab/Persian monarchy, has both subjugated and suppressed the creative thinking skills of the folks who currently inhabit the Middle East.

I will also argue the same case with regard to the folks who are currently locked down under China’s single party, totalitarian rule. Clearly, they are not encouraged to think for themselves, or be creative and resourceful.

The part about Germans and Italians being good criminal attorneys is more stupid than it is racist. I don’t think OP is racist, but I do think he has trouble articulating his point effectively.

JMHO

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 5/21/2006 6:04:40 AM >

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 6:06:23 AM

Bearlee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Can't help you but I'm curious to know why you mentioned that your lawyer is Jewish? What does that have to do with anything?

Celeste

Jewish lawyers are incredibly effective and sharp as a tack. They have a certain infamy about them.

Right... and blacks have a natural affinity for sports. <sheeshhh> Bigotry disguised in complement is still bigotry.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 7:02:30 AM

xxmstrchasxx

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You know because a person doesn't see his kids isn't always a bad dad. I havent' seen my youngest daughter in 25 years and I paid child support for her.

Here's why.....Before she was born my ex-wife got a divorce. We had been living in California but I went back to Ohio for a short time just to get my head on straight because I really loved the woman and got hurt. I told her I was going for a couple of weeks.

I went back within a few weeks and went to see my daughter and as soon as I got there I was surrounded by cops. Here my ex-wife told them I had vandalized her car and hurt my step daughter, which neither was true, regardless, she got a restraining order against me. I wasn't even in the state when this was supposed to happen, I was in Ohio.

While we were broke up if I wanted to see my daughter I would have to kiss the ex's ass. Of course, I did because I wanted to see my daughter without any problems. She was using her as a pawn so to speak. If I didn't kiss her ass then I couldn't see my daughter and my daughter being so young would wonder where I was.

We went through this for a couple of years. Then we got married again. (can you say dumbass) It seems like once she got that marriage license everything changed. The marriage didn't last a month.

Well, I found out later this lady was married 5 times before me. She was also raped by her father and no one believed her, not even her mom. So, I think down deep she had a problem with men.

Well, after we seperated, here she is going to use my daughter again as a pawn. If I kissed her ass I could see my daughter and if not, then I couldn't. Again, I was paying child support all this time.

The courts did nothing as she could always say she had to go somewhere or there was an emergency or something when I was supposed to see my daughter.

I always wanted what was best for my daughter and I thought this roller coaster of seeing me and not seeing me and being used as a pawn wasn't the best thing for her at all. When I would leave she would cry and it broke my heart then I wouldn't get to see her for weeks and then get to see her and then not for weeks and it just kept up like that.

One day when I was leaving and my daughter was crying, I decided not to put her through that anymore and I didn't. Later my ex moved and I have no idea where to this day.

The reason I am writing this is because not always is it the child's dad's fault that he doesn't see his child. I paid a lot of money to the courts and to the lawyers all to no avail to have visitation rights without all the B.S.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 9:12:16 AM

Lordandmaster

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I didn't see your theory about 9-11, so I don't know exactly what you said, but based on your summary here, it doesn't make sense. Most of the 9-11 hijackers were educated in the West. They were intelligent; they were highly educated; and they were Muslim fanatics. Would you have considered the plot possible if the hijackers were French? German? Moussaoui is at least as much French as he is Arabic. And Atta was better educated than a sizable chunk of the German population.

As for whether the comment about German and Italian lawyers is stupid or racist--it's both. It's both because it's the statement of someone who is too stupid to understand what constitutes a race. But it's motivated by the same prejudices that fuel racism: you can judge people by determining the ethnic or cultural group they belong to, and then matching those up with extremely crude stereotypes that are supposed to characterize the group as a whole. Chinese people are better wholesalers than Jews? What kind of logic do YOU find in that statement other than the perverse logic of racial bigotry?

Bigotry is hard to gloss over once it's been exposed, and I find it odious wherever it appears. As you know, I've often defended people on CM who were rashly accused of racism, so I'm not quick to pull that trigger. But if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and uses duck language to protest that it's really a goose, then it's a duck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

In another thread, I make a case that Muslim fanatics could not have masterminded a sophisticated plot that imploded the two towers and building-seven without help from insiders.

Now…. Do I make this case because the Muslim extremists in question are Arabs, and I think Arabs on a whole are stupid? No…. absolutely not. However, I can and will argue the case-that to this very day, the fanatical idealism from a left-over twelfth century Arab/Persian monarchy, has both subjugated and suppressed the creative thinking skills of the folks who currently inhabit the Middle East.

The part about Germans and Italians being good criminal attorneys is more stupid than it is racist. I don’t think OP is racist, but I do think he has trouble articulating his point effectively.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 10:58:02 AM

meatcleaver

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Courts and government agencies are inherently prejudiced against men and very much in favour of the woman, right or wrong and reading these posts it doesn't seem to matter what the country.

When I separated, my wife took my daughter back to her country of origin with my full knowledge and agreement. Did this stop me being hounded by government agencies? Hell no! I was pursued for maintenance money by the Child Support Agency here (Britain) and by social services for not sending my daughter to school.

I contacted these agencies and while I managed to speak to what appeared to be some sympathetic people it made no difference to these agencies hounding me. Social workers were the worst. They more or less insisted there was no smoke without fire, though they didn't word it that way but wouldn't tell me what I was suposed to be guilty of. I told them to phone the fucking school who had full knowledge of my daughter leaving. Fuck, her form teacher and friends threw her a party on her last day. I was going crazy, so much so my wife wrote a letter to these agencies stating she had left the country with my daughter and that she had never contacted any of the agenices that were pursuing me. It made absolutely no difference. Bureaucracy had been set in motion and it couldn't be stopped. It was all very bizarre and Kafkaesque.

The worse thing is, I have never been able to find out where these agencies got their information and how this bureaucratic hell was set in motion. When I left the appartment in which I was living, I was still getting letters from the CSA and social services. I assume the person who lives there now is still receiving my mail from them!

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/21/2006 10:59:14 AM >

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 11:34:24 AM

Alumbrado

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Wow... I don't know which is worse....the people who have no clue that child support is separate from visitation and income, or the ones who don't know the difference between racism and cultural truisms....and who are thereby making sure that covert racism stays around in a patronizing manner.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 11:54:52 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Wow... I don't know which is worse....the people who have no clue that child support is separate from visitation and income, or the ones who don't know the difference between racism and cultural truisms....and who are thereby making sure that covert racism stays around in a patronizing manner.

Exactlly right, child support is a different issue than child visitation. Courts order child support for the care and upkeep of the children. It is like when I hear a man say, "I have to pay that bitch child support", well she may be a bitch, you may be paying child support, but you are paying it to your children... your ex is just the one that decides how it is dispersed. It takes money to feed, clothe, and house children.. It is a lot more than the child support payment usually adds up to. If you are paying child support, you are paying it to your kids, because the other parent should not have to shoulder the burden alone.

Parents that are barred from seeing their kids still owe child support. It is not the kids fault that one parent cant see them, wont see them... They still deserve to have adequate funds to support them.

Yes the system is gender biased. Most of the time fathers I know of want their wives to have the kids when it is splitsville. The sad part is this, a woman's income decreases by I believe 70 percent after a divorce, whereas a man's income increases by 30 percent after a divorce... so there are reasons for this bias.

My brother had custody of his daughter and never received or asked for a dime from his ex for three years, and then his daughter went to live with the ex. He asked the court if he could sue for the three years he had custogy of his daughter so he could count that as the child support payments his ex expected from him. The court said... "No luck, child support is for the welfare of your daughter, not about credits and debits of the past". He can go back and sue her for that money now, but not while his daughter was in her custody... weird huh?

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:03:14 PM

meatcleaver

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It is very rare for the courts to give a man custody of the children if both parents want custody. The man is always seen as the cash cow in such a situation. In a job culture that is no longer so weighted in favour of men, that cultural attitude should be forced to change.

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RE: Child support - 5/21/2006 12:21:49 PM

Termyn8or

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Call me a Polack, that's what I am. I am proud of it and am better than some people, but not because of being a Polack. If I ever go to say something not nice, race is not an issue. I don't use it, I can insult people or whatever if I choose to do so. Using race is hitting below the belt.

I do, however, regret using "that" word in this forum, it almost derailed the thread. I was taught not to be thin skinned. The old "sticks and stones" theory. My Grandmother used to call my Grandfather a dumb Polack. Yes it was when she was miffed at him. And yes, some of the stereotypes did apply to him. Is that a bad thing ? No. (in fact some also apply to me)

I will start another thread for the purpose of getting this straightened out, some people see one word and think I am a slackjawed, shotgun toting, bigoted, beer bellied idiot.

Anyway, on topic for a change, thanks for all the response. The consensus seems to be that 1. there is money missing and 2. somebody might go to jail.

I haven't heard much about tort, that is damages exceeding the amount in question. This guy has a bad heartache over this. Precious time is lost forever.

When he told me that this was going on for a year with a coworker of his, the money value is larger than I had suspected. But it is not right for these thieves to simply have to pay the money back. Hell, in this country you can have hot coffee spilled on your lap and get a cool million for it.

The shit is indeed going to hit the fan. Someone mentioned the state Attorney General ,,, hmm, that sounds like a real good place to start. Thing is, that is one of the reasons for this thread. Money. If I stole your car, but just gave it back later should the cops just let me go ? Criminal=punish, Tort=make it right. Regardless of the criminal aspect, there is alot more involved in making this right than just paying back the $95 a week. In the case of your car, first there is the loss of use. there is always the anxiety that it is never coming back. Even with insurance you lose money, and then have to go get another car.

I think this guy deserves at least a few thousand in punitive damages no ?

T

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