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Endivius -> RE: Gagging at the thought of a cock? (8/30/2011 1:40:56 AM)
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Brace yourselves. It's about to get real. While I appreciate the discussion that suzie very adequately started, It is only appropriate, that on this very emotional topic, we maintain our objectivity. Thus, rather than berate you, I will educate you. Put your thinking cap on, grab a nice beverage and get comfy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Well, aside from the fact that males and females of whatever orientation are different to begin with ...
Obvious, and frankly irrelevent. It's common knowledge that anyone can confirm, and has no bearing on any of the responses given thus far, including your own. (I'm refering to the point in time in wich the post I'm responding to was made, I'll elaborate on the latter posts, later.)
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ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Because it suits your purpose to find it thus, as would be taken by such standards of evidence as elicited here.
The responses posted were not intended to suit any one person, whole or in part, including the questions the OP posted. Rather, they were, genuine factual based responses expressed by knowledgable (mostly) people, given thier own personal experiences. Each person has; indeed, unique experiences in thier lives, as well as common experiences, that shape thier beliefs, ideals, and principles. Whether those experiences, ect, al; are related to you, or not, does not discredit thier validity.
On the topic of your post, I will rebuttle using only one of the capital crimes. It is important, that the number of capital offenses commited, is no less one sided on the topic of gender.
However, it is quite varied by demographics on a wide range of variables, including age, race, relgion, sexual orientation, and income. So to narrow our search, I will pick the most heinous of these crimes, rape.
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Original: Edwynn
It is interesting to note that your curiosity does not extend such as to investigate the question of why male-haters are so prevalent among female homosexuals (thankfully not all), while misogyny among male homosexuals is almost non-existent.
The only thing interesting to note here, is your bias, and largely sexist view, pertaining to lesbians being more predominantly "male haters", and gay men being predominantly indifferent. Hope your comfortable sitting down.
To begin:
"There are nevertheless statistical estimates published by some official bodies. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1] Several studies argue that male-male and female-female prison rape are quite common and may be the least reported form of rape.[2][3][4]"
There is much more to be found on this subject in this arcticle. However, I found most of it to be non-specific, wich is not grounds for factual support of an argument. Moving on.
"About 3% of American men – a total of 2.78 million men – have experienced a rape at some point in their lifetime (Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006).
Males are the least likely to report a sexual assault, though it is estimated that they make up 10% of all victims (RAINN, 2006).
22% of male inmates have been raped at least once during their incarceration; roughly 420,000 prisoners each year (Human Rights Watch, 2001).
Note two very important key statistics listed here: first, 3% of american men have experience rape at some point in thier lifetime. Second that 10% of rape victims are male, that equates: 90% are female, children, or transgender. Don't get excited just yet, we have much much more to explore.
"Nicholas Groth, a clinical psychologist and author of Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender, says all sexual assault is an act of aggression, regardless of the gender or age of the victim or the assailant. Neither sexual desire nor sexual deprivation is the primary motivating force behind sexual assault. It is not about sexual gratification, but rather a sexual aggressor using somebody else as a means of expressing their own power and control. "
Based on this limited study it appears that Sexual assault seems to stem from primarily availability, and has almost no bearing on gender or sexual orientation. Hang on, you aren't out of the woods yet, so far we've only looked at studies pertaining to male assailants. A further exploration of this leads us to:
"In a well-known study of offenders and victims conducted by Nicholas Groth and Ann Burgess, one-half of the offender population described their consenting sexual encounters to be with women only, while 38 percent had consenting sexual encounters with men and women. Additionally, one-half of the victim population was strictly heterosexual. Among the offenders studied, the gender of the victim did not appear to be of specific significance to half of the offenders. Instead, they appeared to be relatively indiscriminate with regard to their choice of a victim -- that is, their victims included both males and females, as well as both adults and children (Groth & Burgess, 1980). The choice of a victim seemed to be more a matter of accessibility than of sexual orientation, gender or age."
This further supports the idea that rape is predominantly about availability. But hang on, this is just one piece of the puzzle. Keep in mind that that vast majority of rape crimes reported in the prison population did not care about the gender of the victim. This reveals that more rapes that occur in prison are predominantly same sex rape, although cross gender rape still occurs. You can further support this by looking at the number of male to female inmates, as well as the number of male to female correctional officers.
"There are 148,200 women in state and federal prisons. In federal women’s correctional facilities, 70% of guards are male. Records show correctional officials have subjected female inmates to rape, other sexual assault, sexual extortion, and groping during body searches. Male correctional officials watch women undressing, in the shower or the toilet. Male correctional officials retaliate, often brutally, against female inmates who complain about sexual assault and harassment."
There were 2,284,900 prison inmates incarcerated in 2009. Of those incarcerated :
"In 2009, the majority (82%) of the total correctional population was male, and 18% was female. Men comprised a smaller portion of the total correctional population in 2009 than in 1990 (86%), while the percentage of women increased within the total correctional population since 1990 (14%)."
"22% of male inmates have been raped at least once during their incarceration; roughly 420,000 prisoners each year (Human Rights Watch, 2001). Requoting for signifigance.
This also supports the hypothesis that that when a male is raped, it is more likely to occur in prison than anywhere else, and by a male offender. Now let's take a look at Female rape victims.
"Young women, low-income women and some minorities are disproportionately victims of domestic violence and rape. Women ages 20-24 are at greatest risk of nonfatal domestic violence8, and women age 24 and under suffer from the highest rates of rape.9 The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years, and that less than five percent of these rapes will be reported.10 Income is also a factor: the poorer the household, the higher the rate of domestic violence -- with women in the lowest income category experiencing more than six times the rate of nonfatal intimate partner violence as compared to women in the highest income category.11 When we consider race, we see that African-American women face higher rates of domestic violence than white women, and American-Indian women are victimized at a rate more than double that of women of other races."
Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it.
"According to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, "domestic violence affecting LGBT individuals continues to be grossly underreported . . . there is a lack of awareness and denial about the existence of this type of violence and its impact, both by LGBT people and non-LGBT people alike."18
Myths regarding gender roles perpetuate the silence surrounding these abusive relationships; for example, the belief that there aren't abusive lesbian relationships because women don't abuse each other. Shelters are often unequipped to handle the needs of lesbians (as a women-only shelter isn't much defense against a female abuser), and transgendered individuals. Statistics regarding domestic violence against LGBT people are unavailable at the national level, but as regional studies demonstrate, domestic violence is as much as a problem within LGBT communities as it is among heterosexual ones.19"
That's right, same sex violence is just as prevelant regardless of gender. How about that. What you have just learned is that rape, is just as likely to occur among LGBT as it is among heterosexuals. This is important to take note of. Really let this sink in. Requoting what you posted :
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ORIGINAL: Edwynn
"It is interesting to note that your curiosity does not extend such as to investigate the question of why male-haters are so prevalent among female homosexuals (thankfully not all), while misogyny among male homosexuals is almost non-existent."
So far, you've learned that men are raped less than women. Men are more likely to be raped in prison; while women are much much more likely to be raped, and when a rape occurs while in prison, by a man than a woman. So how does this correlate to your post? First, just on the topic of rape alone, not including: domestic violence, kidnap, torture, and murder; you've learned that women are more likely to be a victim of rape, and more likely to be a victim of a male offender. Second, because men are less likely to be the victim of rape to begin with, it is naturally conclusive to deduce that gay men are less likely to be predisposed to a fear of rape from a man or a woman, while women's sexual orientation has no bearing on thier natural fear of being victimized. Finally, a lesbian is just as likely to be a victim of a rape by a woman or man as a gay man is likely to be raped by man. What this should indicate to you, and anyone else who has bothered to read this far, is that rape against women are far more likely to occur from a male offender than they are by a female offender, but that does not equate to the level of violence a male or female offender may commit. Additionally, a male victim is more likely to be a victim of a violent crime by a male than a female. It is naturally conclusive that men commit more violent crimes, and when a gay or lesbian is the victim of a crime, gender is a stronger indication of victimology than sexual orientation, and males are more likely to commit said crimes. This should indicate to you that it is natural for women in general to be more affraid of a violent crime from men than women, more importantly, that it is common knowledge. The fact that you actually posted that being a lesbian had anything to do with a disposition of men at all is sexist, biased, homophobic, and utterly ignorant. Not to mention that you supported the argument with homosexual males mysogynistic views, wich is just as fallic. This was just on the topic of rape, didnt even post any of the other capital crimes, wich are no less one sided regarding victimology. To learn more about the victimology of crimes as they pertain to both genders, as well as sexual orientation:
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm
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ORIGINAL: Edwynn
You gals need to get out more, both in the literal outdoors sense and also in the exploration of the world other than forums or discussion groups' views within whatever narrowly focused venue you have chosen to confine yourselves in.
That's a very bold conclusion to make, considering your abundant lack of knowledge pertaining to society in general.
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ORIGINAL: Edwynn
There are some countries and cultures still where the young and teen boys sleep together in groups, and sometimes tickle, fight, etc, but any actual genital touching or otherwise potential boy sex implications are strongly frowned upon. It is their natural life.
I've been to the philipines too. Doesn't validate what you have said in any way, or have any bearing on the discussion at hand.
I don't regret my laziness on the references. I do regret that I did not explore this in more detail, especially regarding same sex rape crimes. It's there for those interested in checking.
HeatherLynnHeather: it was most appropriate, although for some reason none of my pics ever upload when i link them in my posts. So single face palm is all i got sadly...
Edit: for clarity and gramatical failures.
Edit: To put this discussion back on course. I realize I did not entirely answer the question posed by Cheri:
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ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri
So why do you think there is such a strong reaction? Why, in your opinion, would anybody find it repulsive?
I did address male on male sex but not the topic of female on female sex. I do not find any homosexual acts to be erotic or repulsive. I have found, I am only aroused by female on female interaction when I participate. Female on female only sexual intercourse does not excite me, unless one of them climaxes, everything leading up to that point, pretty boring. I find I am only aroused by women, I have no clue why this is, and honestly, I don't care. I have fantasized about having sex with multiple women, but never multiple women having sex. I'm probably just wierd.
References :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus09.pdf
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/women_prison.pdf
http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm
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