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Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 7:07:40 AM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		This is going to sound really strange, but I am at a loss here.

Let me start by saying that I have been studying immunology in general and vaccines in particular for several years now, ever since my daughter ended up hospitalized following the DTaP and Hib vaccines (on separate occasions).  I started researching it and taking all the classes I could after my fears that the hospitalizations were related to the vaccines were dismissed and we were told we needed to continue her on her scheduled vaccinations.  That being said, I feel VERY strongly after my research and classes (which are still ongoing, btw) that not all vaccines are for everyone, that each person should weigh the pros and cons of each vaccine.  I know there are many that don't feel this way, but that is how I feel.  We do get my daughter some vaccines, but many of them are not necessary for her right now (will someone please tell me how a healthy preschooler is going to get Hepatitis B?) and some we don't feel are not worth the risk (if she goes into respiratory distress shortly after recieving the Hib vaccine, I am willing to risk Hib then to have her rushed to the hospital not being able to breathe).  I know it's an odd stance, but it's how I feel.  I am not anti-vaccine, I simply think that everyone needs to think carefully about what they choose to put into their body.

Here come the dilemma.  I work for a major retail drug store chain and they are pushing the flu shot.  Not just encouraging it, PUSHING it.  We are supposed to wear t-shirts promoting the flu shot, ask every person in the store if they have had one and tell them they they should get one if they haven't, and if they have we are supposed to encourage the pneumonia vaccine as well.
I have a serious issue with this. 
If someone does the research and feels a flu shot is right for them then by all means they should get it from us, but I find it horribly wrong that we shove this into everyone's faces and tell them they need to get a flu shot to keep them from getting sick (which is, I feel, a very misleading thing to say).

What would you do?
I was told I HAVE to do these things or I am free to use the door and not to expect a decent reference. 
I am a 10-year employee and this has been my only real job (I started when I was 18, I don't think potential employers are going to care about the now-out-of-business pizza place I worked at during my junior and senior years of high school).
I have been doing a modified version "*My company* requires that I ask you if you have received a flu shot this year and if you have not I am required to encourage you to receive one", but I was told that is not acceptable. 
I actually feel physically sick going to work every day and I don't know how much long I can keep this up.
I am an otherwise excellent employee, I get great reviews every year and am up for a promotion when one becomes available, but I am really struggling with this.
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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 7:16:20 AM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Your research is wrong, and you are imposing your views without having all the information, which makes ME physically sick. Get your degree from a medical university, then you can talk.
In the meantime, talk to a paediatrician who has had to deal with a child with chickenpox meningitis, or someone who had a relative in an iron lung from polio, or worked in the third world and saw a child die from diphtheria.
Your healthy pre-schooler can get Hep B from a gym mat or from food.
Flu shots cut down on child and parent absenteeism, and cut down on deaths of people susceptible to flu: read about 'herd immunity'.
Don't be another Jenny McCarthy.


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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 7:21:55 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24

This is going to sound really strange, but I am at a loss here.

Let me start by saying that I have been studying immunology in general and vaccines in particular for several years now, ever since my daughter ended up hospitalized following the DTaP and Hib vaccines (on separate occasions).  I started researching it and taking all the classes I could

What classes are you taking that are not convincing you that everyone, except those rare few allergic to vaccine components, shouldn't get vaccinated? Did you miss the day when they did the math on herd immunity?

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 7:26:05 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		I have no problems with people getting the flu shot. Epidemiologists state clearly that a pandemic is on it's way plus the more people are immunized the fewer will get sick.

I think it's time you deal with your (generally unfounded) misconceptions about immunizations. Oh and for God's sake make sure your little one is fully immunized!

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 8:04:19 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Thank you for this thread!

They are pushing it here too- and ALL THE CHAINS are.

When someone rolls their eyes at it-  a simply nod and smile -   will be good.

You need to put bread on the table.   However-  I am sure you can find subtle ways to-  skin the cat... if you know what I mean.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 8:10:15 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Why cant you push the widgets on sale in isle 3 instead??

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 8:22:16 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Oh and quick questions. You are studying to become some a medical professional right? If you can't even be impartial now, what are you going to do when you start practicing? Do you plan on telling your patients you have a bias against such things or will you simply speak out adamantly against them?

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 8:43:47 AM   
IrishMist


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Status: offline 		I am 43 years old and I have never had a flu shot.
I have 4 children, the oldest is 32, the youngest is 17; they have never had a flu shot while in my care. I also happen to know that the two older boys still, have never had a flu shot. My oldest daughter is a doctor and she swears by them now.

I told my youngest just recently, a couple days ago to be precise, that she was now old enough to make that decision for herself. Her school offers them ever year, in fact, like you describe, they PUSH them. At first, my daughter started to automatically state that she did not want one but she stopped and instead, got up to call her sister for some information. When she came back, she told me that she had decided to get the shot.

Her choice. My stand is the same. I will not get the shots.

As for other vaccines that may seem useless; that is a choice that only you can make. All four of my children have had the Hepatitis shots, long before they even though about making them mandatory. They received them after I came home from the hospital one time. I felt it was a necessary precaution.

Again, personal choice.

No one can tell you what to do here; what is right and wrong. I agree that research is a must. Talk to others, read as much as you can; make a decision based on INFORMATION, not on emotion.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 8:50:48 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		No one in my family believes in flu shots.  I regret the ones I did have.  I used to round up mom and gram and we would all go and get one.  I used to wonder why the nurses would sometimes have a far away look on their face.

Someone in a yahoo group- begged me not to get any more.  I would like to thank that lady.

Once I looked into it- I seen she is right.

OP, as a drug 'pusher- what is your personal and professional liability when a shot goes bad??

My sister wont get them- her DR wont even give them- period.   We pay a dr to help us navigate and if a dr follows the one size fits all mode- then the freaking computer can do that job!

OP- maybe you should contact the ACLU,  or that natural foods website...  seems there should be exemptions....

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:06:13 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I get flu shots every year.

Seven years ago mum got flu and ended up in hospital, pretty much unable to breathe. She was diagnosed with flu complicated with asthma.

A year later, she did exactly the same, except it turned into pneumonia.

A year later, she got swine flu.

The doctor insisted she needed the flu shot, and since then she's been pretty much fine. I too have asthma, so I started getting the shots too. I can't remember the last time I had bad flu. I sometimes get the virus that lasts a couple of days and I feel a little crappy, but I don't get the full-out sickness that I used to get.

So for me, flu shots are good. I recommend to people that they try them if they have others to care for, have other health issues or even risk losing their job if they take too much time off work.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:10:17 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I get flu shots every year.

Seven years ago mum got flu and ended up in hospital, pretty much unable to breathe. She was diagnosed with flu complicated with asthma.

A year later, she did exactly the same, except it turned into pneumonia.

A year later, she got swine flu.

The doctor insisted she needed the flu shot, and since then she's been pretty much fine. I too have asthma, so I started getting the shots too. I can't remember the last time I had bad flu. I sometimes get the virus that lasts a couple of days and I feel a little crappy, but I don't get the full-out sickness that I used to get.

So for me, flu shots are good. I recommend to people that they try them if they have others to care for, have other health issues or even risk losing their job if they take too much time off work.


Of course she got the flu.  She had been injected with it.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:13:21 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Try again Hunky, she was getting the flu before she started getting flu shots. She hasn't had the flu since starting to get them.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:16:36 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Try again Hunky, she was getting the flu before she started getting flu shots. She hasn't had the flu since starting to get them.


Does this mean she shops at OPs store?

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:17:31 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Try again Hunky, she was getting the flu before she started getting flu shots. She hasn't had the flu since starting to get them.


Does this mean she shops at OPs store?



What the fuck does that have to do with anything?


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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:19:14 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

Does this mean she shops at OPs store?



to make this in language ya might get:



WRONG!

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 9/10/2011 9:20:19 AM >

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:22:25 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
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From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Thanks for clarifying, Zephy.

Yes Hunky, she's 70 years old and now rarely gets sick with flu any more since she started getting the shots.

Before she got the shots she was seriously ill pretty much every year. She nearly died a couple of times.

Now if she gets flu it's a couple of days of feeling a bit crappy rather than a week in hospital with a breathing tube.



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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:29:25 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Incidentally mos have you and your mom looked into the vaccination for pneumonia as well? It might be a good idea to look into it and see what your doctor thinks about it.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:32:03 AM   
myotherself


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Status: offline 		yes - mum is getting the pneumonia shot as well this year. Thank goodness these shots are all free on the NHS for those at risk through age and existing medical conditions, so she's going to take advantage

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:33:31 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

yes - mum is getting the pneumonia shot as well this year. Thank goodness these shots are all free on the NHS for those at risk through age and existing medical conditions, so she's going to take advantage


That's good but since you have asthma also you should ask about getting it.

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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/10/2011 9:37:39 AM   
myotherself


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From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		yes mommy

But seriously, I will. I'm getting my flu shot in a few weeks, so I'll ask about the pneumonia shot too. Particularly now that I work with kids in a very deprived area - we have a lot of nasty diseases floating around.

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