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RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 2:00:46 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You are correct blushes. Now IF you can prove they said someting derogatory and IF you can prove that you would've gotten that next job IF they hadn't actually lied about you, then you can sue the living shit out of them. In most states. However that is alot of ifs.

However it is the policy of many companies just to give out those basics. Actually the best way to find out is just to call them. "This is Mrs. Crania B. Damage, Head Prostitute at Damn Daddy Don's Damnation, we are calling to check on one Slutt B. Itch to verify her employment". Very simple, I've done it a bunch of times. In fact one time it got into some shit because they accused a buddy of mine of stealing. They had no proof. One letter later and that stopped, you see he was fired because they suspected him. They knew they might have a problem and shut the fuck up fast. But that didn't get him the job he applied for the week before.

But what you say is true, there really is no law, but the legal department at most companies will tell them just to give the basic facts. And remember, just use *67 before you call and you can get them up against the wall.

T^T

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 2:21:17 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		On the vaccine debate...

The research really does show that vaccination is good for public health. So people that claim that vaccines are generally harmful, or even that they don't do any good are quite simply wrong.

I'm sorry you had this experience with your child but your experience doesn't overcome the fact that a whole heck of a lot of research has demonstrated that fewer people will die if there is a widespread program of vaccination.

On your dilemma...

At the end of the day, if you cannot accept the ethical position taken by your employer you should leave.

When it comes to "pushing" the vaccination I do wonder if that should be allowed at all, who would be legally liable if as a result of your recommendation (as required by your employer) someone got ill? Does your employer indemnify you? Do your state laws permit you to prescribe a drug (and recommending an OTC drug can still be viewed as prescription)?

If I were you I'd take the line that maybemaybenot takes -


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot
I tell my patients that it is flu season and we have the flu shot available. I tell them that the Center for Disease Control reccomends that they get the flu shot. I give them the flyers we have from the CDC about the flu shot and that's it. They either want it or they don't. I don't personally endorse it, I tell them what the CDC reccomends one and that's that.



If they ask you "should I get the flu shot?" my best suggestion would be to simply say "I'm not as qualified as the CDC to give you that advice".

If you really want to share your experience, the only ethical thing to say would be "I've had some bad experiences that I think were caused by vaccination. The medical experts I've asked all say that the bad experiences were unrelated, and the vast bulk of the scientific evidence points overwhelmingly to the fact that vaccination is a good thing"



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to siamsa24)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 2:35:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Unless Im mistaken, those shots are given my medical personnel.... usually a nurse, a NP, a PA or a Dr... which many pharmacies now employ, so the person giving it would be legally liable if it comes to that.

Unless the OP is such a person who holds a license, or is giving the shot itself, there is no liability.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 2:49:58 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

Although, by law, they only things a former employer is allowed to tell a prospective employer is that you worked for them, the dates & whether they would hire you back.


I missed that earlier. That is a commonly held misconception. A former employer can tell anyone *just about* anything they please. While many corporations have that policy as a cya type thing, not all do. Do NOT count on this being the case with any employer.


I can say *just about* anything I please about you, as well. You have the burden of proving I was slanderous (or libelous). We can say whatever we want - doesn't necessarily make it legal. It would be better said that a previous employer "can say *just about* anything they want as long as they can show it is true.".

You are correct about the "name, rank and serial number" misconception. That is a common policy among companies to avoid lawsuits but it is not really the law which can differ from state to state. In many cases a previous employer can discuss your employment beyond those vital areas if they remain truthful. Many will toe a minimum lie to protect themselves.


_____________________________

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 2:53:12 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Correct, but as Termy said above, proving slander and then proving damages can be quite difficult (and costly!) That's why many attorneys will not take those types of cases without payment up front.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 3:00:50 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I can say *just about* anything I please about you, as well. You have the burden of proving I was slanderous (or libelous). We can say whatever we want - doesn't necessarily make it legal. It would be better said that a previous employer "can say *just about* anything they want as long as they can show it is true.".

You are correct about the "name, rank and serial number" misconception. That is a common policy among companies to avoid lawsuits but it is not really the law which can differ from state to state. In many cases a previous employer can discuss your employment beyond those vital areas if they remain truthful. Many will toe a minimum lie to protect themselves.


And people can call the former employer and ask the same questions a potential employer may ask. In this day and economy, many put in numerous applications. Its not that difficult to prove defamation. As long as they hold to company policy (first) and the truth (second), then not much can be done.

Find they did not follow either, and a lawsuit may be pending.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 3:02:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Correct, but as Termy said above, proving slander and then proving damages can be quite difficult (and costly!) That's why many attorneys will not take those types of cases without payment up front.


Which is what a reference checking service is for.... great proof either way.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 3:21:39 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Correct, but as Termy said above, proving slander and then proving damages can be quite difficult (and costly!) That's why many attorneys will not take those types of cases without payment up front.


Which is what a reference checking service is for.... great proof either way.


The two biggest problems with slander claims are the cost of this type of lawsuit in the first place, and proving actual damages.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 7:58:14 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

"i've had quite a few employers tell me to serve food that was spoiled, or had been left out all night, had been dropped on the floor, was burnt or undercooked, or whatever. i used to fuss about it, but that jeopardized my job. Nowadays i just shut my mouth and do as i'm told,"

They got little gizmos that record voice for A LONG TIME on very little battery power. You can make a backup on your PC and on the web by emailing the file to yourself or others. Think blackmail. I could've done it plenty of times but most of the people I have worked for would've just shot me.

T^T


Think illegal.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 10:02:16 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Think publicity - THEN jury.

T^T

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:09:01 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Think.........prison.

Not my personal cuppa


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:19:55 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

"i've had quite a few employers tell me to serve food that was spoiled, or had been left out all night, had been dropped on the floor, was burnt or undercooked, or whatever. i used to fuss about it, but that jeopardized my job. Nowadays i just shut my mouth and do as i'm told,"

They got little gizmos that record voice for A LONG TIME on very little battery power. You can make a backup on your PC and on the web by emailing the file to yourself or others. Think blackmail. I could've done it plenty of times but most of the people I have worked for would've just shot me.

T^T


Think illegal.



Its not illegal in some states, LT.

Oops.. the blackmail part is... I meant the voice recording.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/12/2011 11:21:09 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:20:12 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
"i've had quite a few employers tell me to serve food that was spoiled, or had been left out all night, had been dropped on the floor, was burnt or undercooked, or whatever. i used to fuss about it, but that jeopardized my job. Nowadays i just shut my mouth and do as i'm told,"

They got little gizmos that record voice for A LONG TIME on very little battery power. You can make a backup on your PC and on the web by emailing the file to yourself or others. Think blackmail. I could've done it plenty of times but most of the people I have worked for would've just shot me.


Seriously considering it.

pam

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:22:42 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		She can also push crack, meth, and bath salts. 

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:24:03 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Ah okay Tazzy.

I know here, no recording either video or still camera or voice, without consent of all parties.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:25:28 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24

I truly hope that none of you have to go through what I went through with vaccine reactions, watching my 2 month old having seizures (DTaP vaccine) and then less then 2 weeks later watching her struggle to breathe and having a tube placed in her throat (Hib vaccine).  I had always questioned it, which is why I wanted them given one at a time, but that made my choice for me.  I took several classes in immunology (I was a pre-med) and that only solidified my position (at that point I decided medicine wasn't for me, I can't work for the medical machine like that, I am now working towards a degree in business, although I still take some medical classes just for fun, I love medicine and the human body). 

The hospital told me the reactions were "unrelated" but then could never tell me why each reaction happened within less then 24 hours and why she hasn't had anything like that happen since I stopped giving her those particular vaccines.  Even her pediatrician agrees that she shouldn't have some of the vaccines and should have the ones that she DOES get on an alternate schedule because of her severe reactions and her family history. 

One of my younger sister is one of the youngest people in the US to be diagnosed with Addison's Disease, she was diagnosed at age 14, but started having seizures one day after her DTaP and MMR vaccines at age 4, and started showing strong signs of Addison's less then a week following her meningitis vaccine in junior high, and my mom has Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, diagnosed about a month after her last flu shot, even though she started having symptoms within 3 days of the shot, both, apparently, are also unrelated to vaccines. 

I, personally, have Asperger syndrome, which I started showing signs of when I was 12 months old (first MMR) and my symptoms grew worse and peaked when I was about 13 (my last MMR) and hasn't declined since then.  For her, it is more of a risk to continue the vaccines then risk of getting the disease (this is not just my opinion, her pediatrician believes it too, he also believes my Asperger's is related to my MMR vaccines, he says that the MMR can aggravate an underlying condition).


I do appreciate the input, I was not intending to start a vaccine debate, it was more of a question of what would you do if you were asked to do something at work that directly conflicted with your personal beliefs, perhaps I should have left the vaccine thing out of it. 

Thank you.



I'm sorry you had to go through that with your daughter. It's always difficult for a parent to see their child suffering and feel at a loss to fix it. However, you really don't have valid reason, other than your interpretation of what you learned to doubt what you were told. I say your interpretation, because I know damn well that no class on immunology is teachinng students that vaccines are a bad idea.

I'm sure you understand the concept that you already had asperger's regardless of the MMR. When something aggravates an underlying condition, it isn't the cause. I'm allergic to most perfume. When I have a cold, ALL perfume is bad. But perfume certainly isn't causing my cold symptoms, only aggravating them.

You are currently working in an industry that, given your personal beliefs on vaccines, will regularly conflict with that. If you can't handle it, move to a different industry. If you want to stay where you are, then take maybemaybenot's advice on how to "push" the vaccines.

Regardless of your personal beliefs, there are those that the medical community (who knows a great deal more about immunology than your one or two classes), recommend get vaccines. Senior citizens, small children, diabetics and others with suppressed immune systems or certain other health issues. Your store is doing what it can to help educate people based on current medical recommendations. You are in no position, either academically or financially, to make the determination that the current medical recommendations are wrong.

The choice is yours. Do the job you were hired to do or find another job. You work in retail, no rocket science. You aren't really even working in the medical field, but rather on the fringes of it. I don't know what you do, but even if you are a pharmacy technician or assistant, you lack the education and knowledge to make those calls for others.

(in reply to siamsa24)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:32:29 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

"i've had quite a few employers tell me to serve food that was spoiled, or had been left out all night, had been dropped on the floor, was burnt or undercooked, or whatever. i used to fuss about it, but that jeopardized my job. Nowadays i just shut my mouth and do as i'm told,"

They got little gizmos that record voice for A LONG TIME on very little battery power. You can make a backup on your PC and on the web by emailing the file to yourself or others. Think blackmail. I could've done it plenty of times but most of the people I have worked for would've just shot me.

T^T


Think illegal.



Actually, the laws on wire tapping vary from state to state. For example: In New Jersey, it is completely legal to record any conversation you are a party to (as in speaking in) without notification to the other parties in the conversation. In Pennsylvania, on the other hand, it is illegal to record ANY conversation without notifying the other parties, regardless of whether you are a party to the conversation or not.

Regardless of that, the OP doesn't have anything to record, other than her employer saying they won't give her a good reference (i.e. OP did not adhere to company policy). Pam, on the other hand, had much better options than recording, such as calling the health department and anonymously lodging a complaint against the restaurant she was working in. Serving, or even keeping spoiled food in the restaurant is a serious infraction that can result in the restaurant being shut down.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:48:47 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

"i've had quite a few employers tell me to serve food that was spoiled, or had been left out all night, had been dropped on the floor, was burnt or undercooked, or whatever. i used to fuss about it, but that jeopardized my job. Nowadays i just shut my mouth and do as i'm told,"

They got little gizmos that record voice for A LONG TIME on very little battery power. You can make a backup on your PC and on the web by emailing the file to yourself or others. Think blackmail. I could've done it plenty of times but most of the people I have worked for would've just shot me.

T^T


Think illegal.

Not necessarily - it isn't blackmail to bring an illegal act to the proper authorities, it's only blackmail if you use the information to extort money or other favors from them - turning them in is called "whistleblowing", and it's generally considered a public service outside the republican party.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:48:47 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
The choice is yours. Do the job you were hired to do or find another job.


If you can find another job, i doubt it would be any different.  The fact is going 10 whole years without having to make a serious ethical compromise at work is actually pretty good.  i used to think it was just the restaurant industry.  It's not, it's every industry.  My mom's a teacher, and she HAS to pass the school board members kids, or be fired.  My sister's a nurse in a hospital that's so understaffed, that she says it's a disaster waiting to happen.  It's the same everywhere.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 9/12/2011 11:49:57 AM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Moral Dilemma and Work - 9/12/2011 11:52:13 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Used to be protections for whistleblowers, the Bush administration shitcanned a lot of them - they seem to feel the only crimes are crimes against capital - people are expendable, variable costs.

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 80
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