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RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:06:27 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		ok, I wil call the vets I spoke to today, and if you cmail me your regular email addy, I will happily have them send you email.. or, even better (so you dont get some fucked up idea that it's ME pretending to know all that vet jargon), I will collect and send to you THEIR emails..

(I just cant believe that you dont see that cutting parts off the dog is cruel and unneede)

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RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:07:49 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

I suppose we could just let all breeds intermix and have nothing but muts with large health issues. 

Mutts are far healthier than purebreds. Just check out the difference in insurance rates.


actually i think that insurance rates would have more do to with VALUE. Purebreds are more expensive then muts typically




yanno, they have   Origin Like this word? Earn Actuarial Science MS]actuaries for animals too...

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 9/17/2011 2:09:19 PM >

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RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:08:45 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

gee, like any OTHER breed that has long ears and tails....

as for that last bit? I have yet to meet ANY dog wth uncropped ears that doesnt have a great sense of hearing. not to mention that dogs use SMELL more than hearing or eyesight.

go ahead.. buy the propaganda,.

mutiliate your pup ( that you dont plan to show). are you going to use her for S&R? ? hmm .. my argument holds up there.. as does the breeding, pet, etc.

however... my argument does NOT hold up against vanity/machismo/and all that crap.

I hope she bites your balls off.


My dog is used for rehabilition of agressive dogs.  so yeah dont want a 125 pd rottie getting ahold of my dog's tail/ears and wounding him. Dobes are prone to a disease called von Willebrand’s Disease. its a bleeding disorder.


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We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:10:51 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		so.. based on the stuff you do with the male you've HAD for a while.. you're going to mutilate the pup... JUST IN CASE she might be useful for the same purpose???

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polysnortatious
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CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:11:15 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

ok, I wil call the vets I spoke to today, and if you cmail me your regular email addy, I will happily have them send you email.. or, even better (so you dont get some fucked up idea that it's ME pretending to know all that vet jargon), I will collect and send to you THEIR emails..

(I just cant believe that you dont see that cutting parts off the dog is cruel and unneede)


does this mean i can send your email to my vet and dog breeder who promotes this. Point being, everyone is entitled to their "opinion" just dont call it fact unless you can back up with the dog community.


_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:12:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

lawl, cant argue the logic so you do what most ignorant fuck heads do. You cant argue logic. And to sit there and say the PROFESSIONAL DOG BREEDERS are all wrong is showing your ignorance.  L2read. Stop being ignorant.


Professional dog breeders are often wrong as hell. Have you ever seen a grand champion quality German Shepherd walk? That horrible gait is the result of breeding GSD's with the narrowest possible hips so the classic GSD pose will conform to the breed standard. The poor dogs can barely walk much less run.

Then there are pugs. Before the victorian era breed standards pugs heads looked a lot like the classic boxer head. Broad with a short compact muzzle. The flat face, that greatly impairs both breathing and panting, is another travesty done by breeders to an animal that was quite healthy before they started messing with them.

The list of bad practices and wrong beliefs amongst dog breeders is almost endless.

(in reply to M4S73R)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:13:07 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

so.. based on the stuff you do with the male you've HAD for a while.. you're going to mutilate the pup... JUST IN CASE she might be useful for the same purpose???


I hold to the breed standard. I think its very cruel and unusual to not have this done. It doesnt cause them harm. and to call it mutilation is a bit of a reach. My dogs are very healthy, loving happy animals. 


_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:13:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

I suppose we could just let all breeds intermix and have nothing but muts with large health issues. 

Mutts are far healthier than purebreds. Just check out the difference in insurance rates.


actually i think that insurance rates would have more do to with VALUE. Purebreds are more expensive then muts typically


So how could that affect teh price for health insurance on the animal?

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:14:03 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

Dobes are prone to a disease called von Willebrand’s Disease. its a bleeding disorder.


I would think that would be a good reason to not put your dog through unnecessary surgery and/or use them to help rehab dogs who might attack.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:18:53 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Professional dog breeders are often wrong as hell. Have you ever seen a grand champion quality German Shepherd walk? That horrible gait is the result of breeding GSD's with the narrowest possible hips so the classic GSD pose will conform to the breed standard. The poor dogs can barely walk much less run.

Then there are pugs. Before the victorian era breed standards pugs heads looked a lot like the classic boxer head. Broad with a short compact muzzle. The flat face, that greatly impairs both breathing and panting, is another travesty done by breeders to an animal that was quite healthy before they started messing with them.

The list of bad practices and wrong beliefs amongst dog breeders is almost endless.


I agree there are some breeds that have been horribly breed. I cant argue that. What has happened to some of these breeds are horrible. But im not talking about other breeds. I'm talking about dobermans. My breeder doesnt breed for show. They breed for health and long life. Thats all.  I dont condone breeding dogs just for looks.

Do i like the look of the dobe with cropped ears? Hell yes I do. Do i think its cruel or inhumane? no. sorry nobody will convince me otherwise. just wont happen. You want to see some animal mutilation in the ears, look at cows and pigs. the tagging and clipping of these animals is just disgusting imo. often leading to infections. 


_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:20:10 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Dobes are prone to a disease called von Willebrand’s Disease. its a bleeding disorder.


I would think that would be a good reason to not put your dog through unnecessary surgery and/or use them to help rehab dogs who might attack.


Actually doing helps with early detection of this disease.


_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:20:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R
Dobes are prone to a disease called von Willebrand’s Disease. its a bleeding disorder.

It's a genetic condition and a responsible breeder would never breed animals known to be carriers and would certainly never sell a pup with the condition.

(in reply to M4S73R)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:24:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Professional dog breeders are often wrong as hell. Have you ever seen a grand champion quality German Shepherd walk? That horrible gait is the result of breeding GSD's with the narrowest possible hips so the classic GSD pose will conform to the breed standard. The poor dogs can barely walk much less run.

Then there are pugs. Before the victorian era breed standards pugs heads looked a lot like the classic boxer head. Broad with a short compact muzzle. The flat face, that greatly impairs both breathing and panting, is another travesty done by breeders to an animal that was quite healthy before they started messing with them.

The list of bad practices and wrong beliefs amongst dog breeders is almost endless.


I agree there are some breeds that have been horribly breed. I cant argue that. What has happened to some of these breeds are horrible. But im not talking about other breeds. I'm talking about dobermans. My breeder doesnt breed for show. They breed for health and long life. Thats all.  I dont condone breeding dogs just for looks.

Do i like the look of the dobe with cropped ears? Hell yes I do. Do i think its cruel or inhumane? no. sorry nobody will convince me otherwise. just wont happen. You want to see some animal mutilation in the ears, look at cows and pigs. the tagging and clipping of these animals is just disgusting imo. often leading to infections. 


You were the one claiming breeders were not wrong on matters of dog health. Which is it? Are they to be considered authorities or not?

Would you like it if, as a young child, most of your ears were cut off and you were forced to wear a taped on mold to force the remaining tissue into a shape considered aethestically pleasing by someone else?

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:24:32 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

Actually doing helps with early detection of this disease.

Bullshit. Von Willebrand's is detected with a blood test. It's a hematological disorder, docking and ear shaping won't make a damn difference in it's detection. Ken is right, it's a breeding issue, a responsible breeder won't breed a dog with the disorder.

edited to fix quotes

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 9/17/2011 2:25:20 PM >

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:33:02 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Professional dog breeders are often wrong as hell. Have you ever seen a grand champion quality German Shepherd walk? That horrible gait is the result of breeding GSD's with the narrowest possible hips so the classic GSD pose will conform to the breed standard. The poor dogs can barely walk much less run.

Then there are pugs. Before the victorian era breed standards pugs heads looked a lot like the classic boxer head. Broad with a short compact muzzle. The flat face, that greatly impairs both breathing and panting, is another travesty done by breeders to an animal that was quite healthy before they started messing with them.

The list of bad practices and wrong beliefs amongst dog breeders is almost endless.


I agree there are some breeds that have been horribly breed. I cant argue that. What has happened to some of these breeds are horrible. But im not talking about other breeds. I'm talking about dobermans. My breeder doesnt breed for show. They breed for health and long life. Thats all.  I dont condone breeding dogs just for looks.

Do i like the look of the dobe with cropped ears? Hell yes I do. Do i think its cruel or inhumane? no. sorry nobody will convince me otherwise. just wont happen. You want to see some animal mutilation in the ears, look at cows and pigs. the tagging and clipping of these animals is just disgusting imo. often leading to infections. 


You were the one claiming breeders were not wrong on matters of dog health. Which is it? Are they to be considered authorities or not?

Would you like it if, as a young child, most of your ears were cut off and you were forced to wear a taped on mold to force the remaining tissue into a shape considered aethestically pleasing by someone else?


um circumcision

and -1 for comparing dogs to people. fail


< Message edited by M4S73R -- 9/17/2011 2:35:29 PM >

_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:34:13 PM   
M4S73R


Posts: 232
Joined: 9/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Actually doing helps with early detection of this disease.

Bullshit. Von Willebrand's is detected with a blood test. It's a hematological disorder, docking and ear shaping won't make a damn difference in it's detection. Ken is right, it's a breeding issue, a responsible breeder won't breed a dog with the disorder.

edited to fix quotes


http://www.gentledoberman.com/veterinary-care/common-diseases/von-willebrands


_____________________________

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
~Friedrich Nietzsche


(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:38:02 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Professional dog breeders are often wrong as hell. Have you ever seen a grand champion quality German Shepherd walk? That horrible gait is the result of breeding GSD's with the narrowest possible hips so the classic GSD pose will conform to the breed standard. The poor dogs can barely walk much less run.

Then there are pugs. Before the victorian era breed standards pugs heads looked a lot like the classic boxer head. Broad with a short compact muzzle. The flat face, that greatly impairs both breathing and panting, is another travesty done by breeders to an animal that was quite healthy before they started messing with them.

The list of bad practices and wrong beliefs amongst dog breeders is almost endless.


I agree there are some breeds that have been horribly breed. I cant argue that. What has happened to some of these breeds are horrible. But im not talking about other breeds. I'm talking about dobermans. My breeder doesnt breed for show. They breed for health and long life. Thats all.  I dont condone breeding dogs just for looks.

Do i like the look of the dobe with cropped ears? Hell yes I do. Do i think its cruel or inhumane? no. sorry nobody will convince me otherwise. just wont happen. You want to see some animal mutilation in the ears, look at cows and pigs. the tagging and clipping of these animals is just disgusting imo. often leading to infections. 


You were the one claiming breeders were not wrong on matters of dog health. Which is it? Are they to be considered authorities or not?

Would you like it if, as a young child, most of your ears were cut off and you were forced to wear a taped on mold to force the remaining tissue into a shape considered aethestically pleasing by someone else?


um circumcision

and -1 for comparing dogs to people. fail


And that is a practice that is also being stopped in much of the world because it is unnecessary mutilation of a healthy organ.

(in reply to M4S73R)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:39:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Actually doing helps with early detection of this disease.

Bullshit. Von Willebrand's is detected with a blood test. It's a hematological disorder, docking and ear shaping won't make a damn difference in it's detection. Ken is right, it's a breeding issue, a responsible breeder won't breed a dog with the disorder.

edited to fix quotes


http://www.gentledoberman.com/veterinary-care/common-diseases/von-willebrands


That's the usual nonsense of dog breeders wanting to keep doing things the same way they always have. Culling the defective gene is simply a good practice for the health of the dogs.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 2:58:40 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Actually doing helps with early detection of this disease.

Bullshit. Von Willebrand's is detected with a blood test. It's a hematological disorder, docking and ear shaping won't make a damn difference in it's detection. Ken is right, it's a breeding issue, a responsible breeder won't breed a dog with the disorder.

edited to fix quotes


http://www.gentledoberman.com/veterinary-care/common-diseases/von-willebrands



links are nice but you aren't telling me why you would use a dog that might have a disorder that causes excessive bleeding to work with dogs that might attack it. Also von Willebrand's is easily detected with a DNA test so the excuse that shaping the ears is to detect that disorder is a load of rot.


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
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(in reply to M4S73R)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: New Member of the Family (Elvira) - 9/17/2011 3:11:57 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

ok, I wil call the vets I spoke to today, and if you cmail me your regular email addy, I will happily have them send you email.. or, even better (so you dont get some fucked up idea that it's ME pretending to know all that vet jargon), I will collect and send to you THEIR emails..

(I just cant believe that you dont see that cutting parts off the dog is cruel and unneede)


does this mean i can send your email to my vet and dog breeder who promotes this. Point being, everyone is entitled to their "opinion" just dont call it fact unless you can back up with the dog community.


feel free to. If you are serious, I will send you not only MY personal email, but the email to the vets who I spoke to (a former personal vet, and two others whose emails I can easily get that I have never dealt with prior to my calls)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to M4S73R)
Profile   Post #: 60
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