RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:08:47 PM)

quote:

Ah ah ah. Careful now. There's video of the tear gas, not the rest.


Ah, it was admitted too.




slvemike4u -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:11:14 PM)

"failure to comply" yeah,as long as you concede his "failure" consisted of a totally nonthreatening nature...one that could at worst be described as passive resistance......and under no circumstances should such actions have led to his next stop being the critical list.
your insistence otherwise is ridiculous .




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:11:29 PM)

quote:

Riiiight. The cops shot themselves. Certainly no way a civilian could get their own paintball gun and bring it to the protest.


I saw only one color... green. Did you see any other colors of paint?




slvemike4u -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:16:59 PM)

I don't think we are getting thru tazzy.
Closed books and all....




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:18:41 PM)

I dont mind denial... I dont mind people who truly want to believe this sort of thing cant happen... I wish it couldnt happen... but at some point.... damn, open your eyes... it IS happening.




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:23:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
"failure to comply" yeah,as long as you concede his "failure" consisted of a totally nonthreatening nature...one that could at worst be described as passive resistance......and under no circumstances should such actions have led to his next stop being the critical list.
your insistence otherwise is ridiculous .


1) The criminal, in commission of his crime is completely responsible for what happens as a result.
2) The fact that he is injured does not in anyway prove that it was anything more than an accident precipitated by and a direct result of the crime he was in the process of committing.




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:24:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I saw only one color... green. Did you see any other colors of paint?


Oh of course. I missed where green was the "official" color of the Oakland PD and no civilian may ever purchase the color for their own guns.




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:28:21 PM)

How would the civilians know which color to use? Since one police department admitted to using paint guns, then it would stand to reason they would use only one color for identification.




Hillwilliam -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:35:00 PM)

Still in denial about that thin blue like there eh Darque?

You never said how you feel about those 16 in NYC with 1500 total charges including ferrying heroin in a squad car to bypass a roadblock. Wanna know where a bunch of that stuff went? CHILDREN. They had 500 supporters outside the courthouse calling the prosecuters "SCUM"

Are you proud of your brothers in Manhattan?

Would you like to know what my prediction for the OPD situation is?

A month from now a spokesman will meet the press and say some version of "After exhaustive investivation and review of all evidence, we have been unable to determine who if anyone violated police procedures and hit the marine in the head with a tear gas cannister"

In other words. Swept under the rug.

This operation was fucked up by the numbers from the top to the bottom.



"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see"




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:50:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How would the civilians know which color to use? Since one police department admitted to using paint guns, then it would stand to reason they would use only one color for identification.


You don't honestly think that the color of an admitted-to police tool is kept classified do you?

You really aren't helping your case. Let me help you out.

The OWS people have already gone on record stating their belief (shared by enough that it reached the national news) that the movement will eventually come to violent clashes. Polls taken showed that at least 31% were fine with resorting to violence. Now, keeping that in mind, at least some of those with these violent beliefs have to be smart enough to know that in this age of electronic media, your best bet is to get the media, and hopefully public opinion on your side.

How do you do that? By letting yourself be filmed going to extremes first? No. You plan ahead. You do "little things" that force the cops' hands, so that when the cops inevitably react, you're seen as the hapless victim. For example, it not entirely inconceivable that some thought ahead and upon seeing the cops "marking" people with paint, began firing back with the same color so that it would look like they'd done nothing wrong.

This isn't really that hard to fathom boys and girls. Were I ever to be boneheaded enough or to have too much time on my hands enough to protest something (or be deluded enough to think it would change anything), I'd do exactly these kinds of things. It's classic set-up 101. Do something minor you know the police will have no choice but to act upon and then cry to the first news camera you see about the mean ol' cops. I've said it before and will say it again....this ain't rocket science.




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 7:56:25 PM)

And they are resorting to violence, and finding out the colors a particular police department uses.... remember, the one using them is not the Oakland Department..... one they would have no way of knowing would be involved in their removal.

You really are stretching this out.

They.. the police.. admitted to using rubber bullets and bean bags.... they admitted to using paint guns.... they all admitted to not knowing what the other departments were using.

Use your head and really think for a few.




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:00:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Still in denial about that thin blue like there eh Darque?


Still in denial about the very evidence your side has posted of Scott being a criminal, eh William?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You never said how you feel about those 16 in NYC with 1500 total charges including ferrying heroin in a squad car to bypass a roadblock.


Want to know why I haven't? I'm still waiting for you to tell me how something that happened in New York is relevant to something we're discussing in Oakland....on the OPPOSITE side of the country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Are you proud of your brothers in Manhattan?


My "brothers?" LoL that wasn't even a good try. I'm not a cop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Would you like to know what my prediction for the OPD situation is?

A month from now a spokesman will meet the press and say some version of "After exhaustive investivation and review of all evidence, we have been unable to determine who if anyone violated police procedures and hit the marine in the head with a tear gas cannister"

In other words. Swept under the rug.


If by prediction, you mean opinion, then ok. How about we wait and see? Did the BART officer's crime get swept under the rug? Nope. He ain't a cop anymore. Thin blue line my ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see"


Just like those with evidence of a crime like Scott Olsen's refusal to comply starring them in the face still refusing to see it and instead blaming the underpaid public servant just doing his job.




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:06:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And they are resorting to violence, and finding out the colors a particular police department uses.... remember, the one using them is not the Oakland Department..... one they would have no way of knowing would be involved in their removal.

You really are stretching this out.

They.. the police.. admitted to using rubber bullets and bean bags.... they admitted to using paint guns.... they all admitted to not knowing what the other departments were using.

Use your head and really think for a few.


And you're stretching out and harping on the rubber bullet and bean bag thing a bit too much. Focus, sweetie. They claim Olsen was hit by a tear gas canister. That's perfectly legit to use. Furthermore, rubber bullets and bean bags aren't illegal, they are just against one version of a policy we've seen. Policies can change with police chiefs and with situations. Perhaps the policy prohibits use in routine situations, but not in mob scenarios. In riots, you use what works or you hire new cops to replace the ones killed by rioters. Again, not rocket science.




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:12:13 PM)

Oakland police will no longer indiscriminately use wooden or rubber bullets, Taser stun guns, pepper spray and motorcycles to break up crowds, under an agreement announced Friday.

The changes followed criticism and lawsuits against police for their tactics at a large demonstration against the Iraq war outside the Port of Oakland on April 7, 2003.

The new policy settles part of a federal class-action lawsuit filed by 52 people who claimed their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and assembly were violated as they targeted two shipping companies with contracts tied to the war in Iraq.

"What we've done is create a comprehensive policy that really provides a much more sensible, reasoned approach to managing demonstrations and crowds," said Rachel Lederman of the National Lawyers Guild in San Francisco.

The policy followed 10 months of discussions involving Oakland police, the city attorney's office and plaintiffs in the case. Oakland Police Chief Richard Word publicly circulated the basic changes in the policy in December.

Nearly 60 people, including longshore workers, said police fired nonlethal projectiles including wooden bullets, stinger grenades and bean bags without provocation and without giving them a chance to disperse. Others said they were bumped hard by traffic officers on motorcycles.

A photograph of protester Sri Louise, showing her with a golf-ball-size welt to her jaw, was widely published.

Still unresolved in the lawsuit are monetary damages that the protesters are seeking. Those claims will go to trial in January unless they are settled.

"Overall, it's a good policy, and I think it will benefit the whole community," said Michael Haddad, an Oakland attorney representing Louise and five other plaintiffs in a separate federal lawsuit.

John Burris, another plaintiffs' attorney in Oakland, agreed, saying the crowd-control measures are "a positive step toward evenhandedness."

Oakland police spokeswoman Danielle Ashford said Friday that the department's new policy was the result of an "ongoing learning process" that seeks to "ensure the safety of our officers as well as the community that we serve."

Haddad said police are "supposed to respect protesters' First Amendment activity" under the new policy. If laws are broken, police will try to negotiate with leaders and give audible orders to the crowd to disperse before making arrests.

If demonstrators still refuse to comply, police are allowed to deploy tear gas "on the edge of the crowd," form a skirmish line and push back protesters with batons but not strike them, Haddad said.

Alan Schlosser, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union in San Francisco, said the policy is timely because of the re-election of President Bush.

"I would guess that there's probably going to be lots of demonstrations and lots of difference of opinions," Schlosser said.

Lederman said, "These projectile weapons are very dangerous. It was only a matter of luck that someone wasn't killed on April 7, 2003, in Oakland. That's what we're trying to prevent.



http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-11-06/bay-area/17453409_1_oakland-police-new-policy-protesters

You keep missing the clues.




slvemike4u -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:14:50 PM)

Why does someone resort to referring to a female poster as "sweetie" during a perfectly polite discussion.Seems like excessive use of a patronizing tone to me [:)]




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:16:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
You keep missing the clues.


Sweetie, look again. That's from 8 years ago. Yet....somehow the units have the ammunition in question. If it's really a hard and fast rule.....why are they being given rounds they can't use? Think about that and get back to me.

Edited to be more clear whom I was addressing.




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:18:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why does someone resort to referring to a female poster as "sweetie" during a perfectly polite discussion.Seems like excessive use of a patronizing tone to me [:)]


Oh of course.....polite....like telling someone they smell like a septic tank. Now who's being hypocritical?




slvemike4u -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:21:39 PM)

I mentioned something about the "smell" of hypocrisy...I don't know where the septic tank shit is coming from......but that aside,the sweetie thing is a little uncalled for.Tazzy happens to bring a lot to these pages whether or jot you agree with her,she states her case well and does so with a measure of class.
Now you are free to continue with your condescending manner...but I don't see you scoring any points by doing so [8|]




DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:23:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I mentioned something about the "smell" of hypocrisy...


And the first person to bring up "smell" used it in reference to a septic tank. Do try and be aware which posts you're jumping into when you comment from the peanut gallery. It was only a few posts ago. Post #249 on page 13, to be exact.




tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/29/2011 8:25:40 PM)

Its ok, mike. I dont like being patted on the head like a "good girl" by any man .... unless Im sucking his cock... or well... there are a few other exceptions.. and those men know who they are. [;)]

Having said that, DM lost all my respect... and my ability to see his responses. I have struggled to keep it civil... and I am done with him. When he is eating crow, he will disappear again.

Its all good [:D]




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