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RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:09:17 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with you 100%, its gotten way out of hand. I see it as the American Way, an easy excuse. " I cannot be responsible for my behaviour because I have XYZ syndrome."
Before the "doctors" get their panties or boxers in a bunch I do recognise that there are many people with genuine problems, it exists in my family. I just get tired of those problems being used as an excuse or easy out when dealing with the problems becomes hard work.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:10:45 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		And it won't be long before Pfizer or Merck markets a drug for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I agree with you 100%, its gotten way out of hand. I see it as the American Way, an easy excuse. " I cannot be responsible for my behaviour because I have XYZ syndrome."

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:14:28 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm just kind of stunned that people are speaking about PD's as though they were real things, just because they're listed in some diagnostic manual.  Really, how do you apply those criteria to DIAGNOSE someone with NPD?  What does "excessive" mean?  What does "preoccupied" mean?  Almost everyone in the world would qualify as a narcissist by someone's interpretation of that language.

If you can show me physical abnormalities in the brain that contribute to these characteristics (as in the case of dementia, depression, and so on), then I might take this more seriously.  But as long is at all depends on observing someone's behavior and deciding whether it qualifies as "excessive" or "grandiose," the concept sounds fictitious and very dangerous.


Maybe it's better to think about it in these terms:  Do these "traits" cause this person to be non-functional in several life domains (ie: job, friendships, family, etc).  People with PDs have trouble keeping jobs.  They are often alienated from their families because, for the sake of their own survival, their families pull away.  They can't hold down jobs because they are "too good" for it.  Think of the person who is unemployed and on the verge of homelessness, yet won't take a low paying job (even for a short period) because it is "beneath them".   Friends often try to rescue them when they  first meet them because they can be quite charming and manipulative AND they have convinced this new friend that, whatever the situation, it is the "first time" it has ever happened to them..NOT.  However, after rescuing this person 6 times in the first 6 months they know them, their friends get burnt out and withdraw too.

PDs are rare but I believe that this lifestyle may have more than its share.  Not only Dominants but submissives too.  There is a "Dependent Personality Disorder" tailor made for some submissives.


_____________________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:16:53 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No kidding!

I think I will just stick with my favourite occasional self medication..........a little good dark chocolate and a glass of REALLY good tawny port in front of a fire....now if they could make it calorie free........

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:41:24 PM   
shtrbg


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/16/2005
Status: offline 		dark chocolate is an antioxidant too

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:46:33 PM   
shtrbg


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/16/2005
Status: offline 		but bitchy Dommes are the most enjoyable

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:46:55 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

No kidding!

I think I will just stick with my favourite occasional self medication..........a little good dark chocolate and a glass of REALLY good tawny port in front of a fire....now if they could make it calorie free........



Oooooooo..... *groaning in orgasmic pleasure*........a good dark chocolate can make everything just fine.


_____________________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 12:50:39 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My best friend had a dom with this disorder, and it was very painful and he still strikes out at her, and has even tried to keep tabs on me. He is a really sick person.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 1:14:06 PM   
lisa1978


Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline
quote:

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is.

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can. Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max! No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire. They "suck" you into their world. Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders. They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle. There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is. 

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can.  Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max!  No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire.  They "suck" you into their world.  Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders.  They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle.  There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!



I am not here to debate the validity of pschology, and in fact I prescribe to the avoid at all cost they are paid to find something wrong with you thought. As Sunshine119 said so perfectly is true. I am not talking about people who have selfious or ego issues, but if you ever had to deal with one real closely, regardless of your beliefs, you have seen the pain and damage there path, lying and manipulation causes to know to just stay away.

We all have are issues as human beings and always good advice not to cast stones, but I am refering when this particular issue is so overwhelming that a whole persons life is friven by it and the pain and problems it costs the people drawn into their net.




(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 1:21:01 PM   
ADomDoc


Posts: 312
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333
You've described a lot of people!

When does a person go from being a spoilt, selfish insensitive jerk to someone with NPD, or any other syndrome or disorder?  These days they put names on a whole lot of new disorders that used to just be a lack of self-control, maturity and consideration for others.

But, if it is a genuine condition, I think your prediction about them is totally correct.  There's a lot of people wandering the net from site to site, even from fetish to fetish, craving that attention.  And when people don't bow down to them in awe, they move on because that site's not good enough.  I'd hate to run across one as a Dom.  They'd be the sort of Dom/me who could really mess up a newbie - and they'd be the type to grab the newbies, who didn't know any better.


Well said, Becca.  There certainly are a lot of folks running around out there who give themselves a title & then try to get others to validate it.  And lots who profess expertise but who are doing things that are physiologically dangerous.  Whether or not they are just insecure, attention seeking jerks ... or have an uncontrollable psychological disorder that needs treatment is probably a matter of degree & how much it complicates their lives (& the lives of those around them).

I have never sought any sort of 'position' within the BdSm community.  (BTW:  What the hell happened by my vanilla ice cream cone?  Now I've got 2 coins?  What's that?  2 cents?)  When I went public, it was merely by running the first BdSm bulletin board in a large city.  Finally, some of the Top Tops thought what I had to say was interesting & invited me & my slave to a play party ... saying "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours."  Which was to say "put up or shut up."  I'd never played in public before ... but when I walked out of that party, I was generally accepted as being within the top 5 Doms in that large city.  I wasn't just talk ... I know what I'm talking about  and know how to push the limits & play heavily but safely.

I once went to a munch with my sub, and, being well-acclaimed in that city for quite a while, I noticed a line of people form to meet my sub (who was on the other side of the room).  She was well-known on the BBSs & had lots of friends, so that's what I figured it was all about.  I continued my chat w/ friends ... then my sub came up with someone who wanted to be introduced.  I'm the sort of guy that anyone can approach, say Hi & poke out their hand to shake, and I'll be happy to chat with you.  But I found out later that the receiving line was people who all wanted introductions to me but were afraid to approach me.  And, frankly, though I chuckled, I thought this was really wierd!

So the "system" seems to feed folks who want or need the acclamation. 

About that time, I could also walk into a particular nightclub where they'd have weekly BdSm bulletin board members gather ... and the place would hush ... because they somehow thought there would be some sort of territorial clash between me & another self-proclaimed Dom.  I'd just sit down & order a drink & talk w/ friends ... while the other Dom had the need to be the center of attention & hold court at the only elevated table in the place -- with multiple subs sitting on the steps at his feet.

And just to jerk with the folks who thought that way ... I once sent my baby brother into the club to pick up my slave.  Brother was extremely vanilla ... but I gave him a Dom name (w/o a title), & told him to swagger & command her (she was in on the joke) ... and the gossip went wild about the new handsome Dom in town validated by me. :-)  I don't think anybody to date has figured out that they'd been played.  (Brother recently died ... but his online name remained Matador)

I've since changed major cities, and started the 1st BdSm munch in this town which is only remembered by the oldest folks who are still in the public scene. 

Now, being out of the public scene, I'll drop in on a munch to see friends -- & folks who remember nod, wave or chat.  It's a lot more friendly than the pomposity of receiving lines!

So, while some folks NEED the acclamation & love to wallow in it ... there are still plenty of us who don't seek it, & even feel uncomfortable with it.

ADomDoc  
SanAntonio






(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 1:23:20 PM   
RedSensei


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Actually... you see, the medical model has had HUGE influence over the way American psychologists conceptualize so called "mental illness"...

In medecine, you have a disease that is presumed to cause symptoms. In the better cases, treatment will cure the disease, making symptoms disappear... That is the medical model.

In psychology, you have symptoms... Let's say that you feel down for weeks, lose weight, don't sleep, etc. You might get diagnosed with "depression". The big diffrence with medecine is that the symptom IS the disease! That implies an interesting inversion that I recognized in this thread. You're down so you have depression becomes... You have depression, SO you are down.

The same thing can be said about any personality disorder. They don't "have" it, so then act in this way and that. It's BECAUSE they are presenting exagerated (yes, that does imply normative judgment from the person doing the diagnosis, and thus a definition of normality) patterns of thoughts and behavior. When I teach my students about personality disorders (because I *am* a Sensei), I present them as filters by which the person sees EVERYTHING. Someone might think his collegues are onto him, and he may be right or wrong, either way that does not make him paranoid. If this someone interprets everything he sees, hears, lives through or imagine as a menace, as if the whole world was out to get him personally (that is hardly a caricature, believe me), then he qualifies as presenting a Paranoid Personality Disorder.

It's pretty much the same thing with someone who is arrogant in every single situation, who honestly think that he is among the great genius of his time (but with nothing to show... yet, he might add), if he feels challenged by well-liked people in his environment, etc. I think it's fair to refer to him as presenting a Narcissic Personality Disorder. As someone else refered earlier in the conversation "how can you tell if he's arrogant or if it's a personality disorder?" The long answer would be a question of degree; if it's persistant, generalized, and almost always on, it probably is a PD. The short answer is indeed "after meeting a few, you'll know".

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 1:58:53 PM   
shtrbg


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/16/2005
Status: offline 		here's the idea, in the BDSM community we set up a test, in the test a panel votes as to whether someone can legitamately call themselves Dom/me if it is determined to be, then they get a certificate.
if not, fed to lions in an arena 

(in reply to RedSensei)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 2:12:30 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978

quote:

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is.

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can. Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max! No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire. They "suck" you into their world. Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders. They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle. There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is. 

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can.  Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max!  No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire.  They "suck" you into their world.  Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders.  They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle.  There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!



I am not here to debate the validity of pschology, and in fact I prescribe to the avoid at all cost they are paid to find something wrong with you thought. As Sunshine119 said so perfectly is true. I am not talking about people who have selfious or ego issues, but if you ever had to deal with one real closely, regardless of your beliefs, you have seen the pain and damage there path, lying and manipulation causes to know to just stay away.

We all have are issues as human beings and always good advice not to cast stones, but I am refering when this particular issue is so overwhelming that a whole persons life is friven by it and the pain and problems it costs the people drawn into their net.



I have to agree with lisa on this on.  While I have a lot of doubts about the field of psychology and psychiatry, one of the utlities of the DSM-V or DSM -IV is that it actually DOES describe  some personality "types", regardless of whether you are willing to describe them in medical modality or not.

 I have (unfortunately) more than my share of experience with someone who acts out the description (and was diagnosed) with NPD.  I don't care what you may think, it's NOT simply a "big ego".  It's a separate vision of reality that leaves nothing but destruction, damaged emotions and hostility in its wake.  I just got a three year Protective Order on an individual, for my entire family and household due to that "separate reality".

I can not in any way fathom how such an individual would be able to function as a "dom" in this lifestyle except in the most superficial and destructive way, or with the most unaware or naive people.

Lord have pity on you, if you are ever sucked into their fantasies.

FHky






_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 2:13:20 PM   
shtrbg


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/16/2005
Status: offline 		dark chocolate over creamy vanilla soft serve ice cream in a cone

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 2:27:24 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:


(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 
(4) requires excessive admiration 
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 
(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her 
(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


I see this list.. and I wonder why so many of you have such problems with diagnosing this as an actual disorder.  Does it hit too close to home?

I can say I'm close.. cept numbers 6 & 7.. and not sure #4 is entirely accurate of me either.

Most people have had most of those traits at one time. Some people have some of those traits all the time.  But not everyone has all of those traits at once all the time.

6 & 7 alone are indicative of someone not having a properly functioning conscience.  Which having an occaisional bout of it.. is normal.  But to constantly have the problem.. is dangerous.



(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 2:59:31 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I believe this disorder is real, but I don't think it's one that requires drugs, though am sure one will be created for it...  I think it's one that simply requires a whole bunch of "get real, the world does not revolve around you, you self important asshole" treatment to cure.
Do a lot of dominants have it?  Possibly, but I wouldn't say it's a dominant problem alone, having read a few "subs" on the boards and spoken to some in real life I thought could be poster children for Narcissistic personality disorder."   M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 3:44:31 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978

quote:

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is.

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can. Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max! No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire. They "suck" you into their world. Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders. They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle. There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

While the DSM IV may list those things as part of having a "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" AND you may feel that most people you know could easily qualify, let me assure you that once you have met a person with this disorder you never forget what it is. 

Think of all these traits magnified as far as you can.  Lacking any kind of empathy and arrogant to the max!  No one wants to be near these folks and they burn out people faster than a wildfire.  They "suck" you into their world.  Because of the work I do, I have "spidey senses" regarding personality disorders.  They walk into the office and my nose starts to tingle.  There is no medications that helps and probably no therapies that are really effective with this population.

Generally, I just want to get away!



I am not here to debate the validity of pschology, and in fact I prescribe to the avoid at all cost they are paid to find something wrong with you thought. As Sunshine119 said so perfectly is true. I am not talking about people who have selfious or ego issues, but if you ever had to deal with one real closely, regardless of your beliefs, you have seen the pain and damage there path, lying and manipulation causes to know to just stay away.

We all have are issues as human beings and always good advice not to cast stones, but I am refering when this particular issue is so overwhelming that a whole persons life is friven by it and the pain and problems it costs the people drawn into their net.



I have to agree with lisa on this on.  While I have a lot of doubts about the field of psychology and psychiatry, one of the utlities of the DSM-V or DSM -IV is that it actually DOES describe  some personality "types", regardless of whether you are willing to describe them in medical modality or not.

I have (unfortunately) more than my share of experience with someone who acts out the description (and was diagnosed) with NPD.  I don't care what you may think, it's NOT simply a "big ego".  It's a separate vision of reality that leaves nothing but destruction, damaged emotions and hostility in its wake.  I just got a three year Protective Order on an individual, for my entire family and household due to that "separate reality".

I can not in any way fathom how such an individual would be able to function as a "dom" in this lifestyle except in the most superficial and destructive way, or with the most unaware or naive people.

Lord have pity on you, if you are ever sucked into their fantasies.

FHky







I am a person extremely drawn to narcissists. They bring color into my world and suck me dry and consume me in a way that no human ever could. They are my drug of choice. I don't get close to them at all anymore. I can't. My owner is not one, luckily. Until you have been in sphere of one of these people you have no idea. They are not just selfish or have big ego's...these people are an empty shell..who hate themselves..with a vehemence unmatched by anything else. They need the people in their lives to reflect back the image they wish was them. They have no empathy for other humans, none. They are too good for damn near anything and every other person on the planet earth is a piece of shit not worthy to breathe their air. They always have some big huge "plan" going..that never goes anywhere. They are charming at first..omg are they charming..once they have you it starts..the little put-downs..then before you know full-blown rages like you have never seen..and it is ALWAYS your fault, if you were better they wouldn't be that way. Call it whatever you want these folks exist..not in huge numbers but they are pure hell. You do not leave a narcissist..he/she will leave you when you are no longer useful..but you never just leave a narcissist..they hunt you, torment you..you became a lifelong enemy or they turn on the charm and repeat the cycle..I have several of these t-shirts.


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 5:23:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, it's more like this: Americans have to believe that doctors know what they are talking about (because the alternative is too frightening to contemplate).  So doctors oblige by pretending that they know what they're talking about.  If they REALLY knew what they were talking about, we'd get scientific descriptions of disorders, not a list of characteristics that someone decided is abnormal.

And I'm not assaulting psychiatry as a field.  (Someone seemed to imply that I was.)  There have been tremendous advances in the treatment of things like schizophrenia, depression, and so on.  But those have relied on intensive physiological studies.  Just listing a bunch of unpleasant character traits and calling the composite a "disorder" is hardly the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedSensei

Actually... you see, the medical model has had HUGE influence over the way American psychologists conceptualize so called "mental illness"...

(in reply to RedSensei)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 5:45:36 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		My feeling is there are people that clearly have something "wrong" with them and are unable to function and have a very skewed version of reality.  Label it bipolar or one of half a dozen personality disorder or whatever you like -- if you interact with them long enough you get that it is just best to stay the hell away.

Yes, I realize bipolar is more a of a physiological illness sometimes controlled with medication.  Anecdotally I see more and more people being diagnosed as bipolar and exhibiting behaviors and characteristics that would be typical of various personality disorders.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - 5/26/2006 5:55:15 PM   
boy43


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

saying it twice isn't gonna help.  There is also a Valhalla and Valkyries and a planet Gor.



sorry for saying it twice it was a mistake, not doing it for reinforce my opinion as i have no need to do it.
:)


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 40
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