Padriag
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Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1
The diagnosis of NPD is done using the dsm, and can only be done using that formula.
You must have had a full psychiatric evaluation, which include psychological testing. A history that substanciates findings consistantly over the course of a lifetime, not just a bad year.
Your personality is set by the age of 5. So most adults have quite a bit of history by the time their path of destruction leads them to psychiatry. The law seems to be a motivating factor.
So that is how i knew, that the 3 diagnosed, where correctly diagnosed. By people qualified to do so. and not the general public with a book on their home shelf - 'psychiatry 101'.
Ayup, this is not something that can be diagnosed without training. Just having the DSM definitions isn't enough because there are the methodologies and implied meanings not spelled out in the DSM, but are assumed because it is assumed the DSM will be used by trained professionals, not the lay public. The definition given by the DSM is not as vague or inaccurate as it may seem, when you figure in all the things not printed there.
Regardless all this debate has really wandered off the topic. The OP asked if someone with NPD would be likely to be attracted to this lifestyle and the answer is, that should they become aware of it, yes they would likely be attracted to it for the reasons I gave in my earlier post. Likewise, narcissist (not NPD, but simple narcissism) would also be attracted to this lifestyle.
In point of fact, and many of us have seen it, this lifestyle attracts a lot of social misfits precisely because as self styles "doms" and "masters" they imagine they can create an environment where they do fit in, where they are in control. Simply put, there are many social misfits who perceive this lifestyle as providing a place to fit in, because they are unable to adapt to normal society.
Its one of the reasons I tend not to be as sympathetic to the idea of accepting any sort of kink or person in this lifestyle. I realize there is a segment that is involved in this lifestyle for unhealthy reasons and no... their kink is not okay. Sometimes I think Aleister Crowley had it right... so long as it harm none, do as thou wilt... which is a lot more limiting that it sounds.
As to genetics controlling behavior, its very popular these days to attribute all sorts of things to genetics. But the fact is genetics cannot directly control behavior, especially in higher order organisms (like people). DNA simply doesn't work that way. At best it can influence behavior in a variety of ways, by attenuating perception in specific ways, or through specialization in biochemistry, organs, etc. But these things cannot govern behavior. A simple example would be our ability to taste. We can all taste things that are sweet, and our sense of taste is genetically attenuated to cause us to be inclined to like things that taste sweet. However, despite this genetic attenuation, we don't all like sweets... why? Because behavior among higher order organisms... namely people, is far more influenced by what we learn, past associations, etc. We generally put far more importance on what we are taught, what we have learned than we do what our senses tell us. This limits the impact genetics can have on our behavior. Watson believed that given enough control over what a person learns from childhood forward, you could shape them into virtually anything you wanted. Although probably not literally true, the extent to which it is true is none-the-less remarkable. We behave as we have learned to behave.
Narcissism, like any other form of generalized behavior (including dominance, submissiveness, aggressiveness, cooperativeness, etc.), is an adaptation of behavior designed to help that individual get through life in a way they believe will be successful. We are all trying to succeed in life, at life's tasks (ref. Adler, Life tasks). How we go about that varies from individual to individual based on past associations, experiences, what that person has not only learned, but learned to belief. If being narcissistic as a child was successful in getting them what they wanted as a child, they'll continue as an adult, and that behavior will go on until it becomes so crushingly unsuccessful the person has to face that it isn't working. At which point a radical change in their life is going to occur and without help could result in severe depression and suicidal behavior.
Does NPD exist, absolutely. Are disorders the same as diseases, no. A disease is biological in cause, a disorder psychological (including physical nerve damage). Scarlet fever is a disease, its biological in cause (a virus). The high fever resulting can cause physical damage to the brain which can result in mental disorders (retardation, nervous disorders, etc.). Is it confusing trying to understand how behavioral disorders are diagnosed... yes it is, even for people trained to do it. Skinner complained bitterly about it in "Beyond Freedom & Dignity" in 1971, and things have not greatly improved since then. We still lack a "technology of human behavior" as Skinner called it, psychology as a hard science in the same sense as physics or biology. And when that understanding fails us (as it must because it remains limited), we turn impulsively to technology in various forms for answers (most recently to genetics). But the answers do not lie in technology, they lay within understanding our own behavior.
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Padriag
A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer
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