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ORIGINAL: Fawne

I do think psychology has insight to offer, but is an art, not an exact science, at least not a 'hard' science.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyV

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(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 
(4) requires excessive admiration 
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 
(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her 
(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I see this list.. and I wonder why so many of you have such problems with diagnosing this as an actual disorder.  Does it hit too close to home?

I can say I'm close.. cept numbers 6 & 7.. and not sure #4 is entirely accurate of me either.

Most people have had most of those traits at one time. Some people have some of those traits all the time.  But not everyone has all of those traits at once all the time.

6 & 7 alone are indicative of someone not having a properly functioning conscience.  Which having an occaisional bout of it.. is normal.  But to constantly have the problem.. is dangerous.

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ORIGINAL: cacodylic
My ex-domme showed all of these traits to an extreme, eventually all the time, which is why I chose to leave. But as long as a person is capable of functioning in the real world, can one really say that they have a 'disorder?' After all, the shrinks don't make their grand pronouncements until they have examined someone, whether that person is self-referred or referred by others.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag


BTW, all personality disorders are behavioral disorders.  They are not genetic in cause, they are environmental in origin.  They are treatable but most behavior disorders are difficult to treat.  This is in part due to the problem of getting a patient to accept that they have a problem.  A narcissist presents a particularly thorny problem because their very problem precludes them accepting they have a problem (it violates their self image, something they will rigorously defend).  If you can ever get them to accept that much, you're more than half way there because at that point that idealized self image shatters.  Then you have the mess of helping them pick up all the broken pieces of who they are.

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ORIGINAL: Sensualips

My feeling is there are people that clearly have something "wrong" with them and are unable to function and have a very skewed version of reality.  Label it bipolar or one of half a dozen personality disorder or whatever you like -- if you interact with them long enough you get that it is just best to stay the hell away.

Yes, I realize bipolar is more a of a physiological illness sometimes controlled with medication.  Anecdotally I see more and more people being diagnosed as bipolar and exhibiting behaviors and characteristics that would be typical of various personality disorders.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

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ORIGINAL: Fawne

I do think psychology has insight to offer, but is an art, not an exact science, at least not a 'hard' science.

No, it isn't a hard science which is why definitions and methods of diagnosis seem (and too often are) very subjective.  But there's not reason it can't be a hard science, and no reason it shouldn't be one day.

And yes I was strongly influenced by Skinner's opinions on that.

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ORIGINAL: candystripper

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ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

I don’t know if it is a certifiable psychiatric condition or not, but it is a trip to be around one. Much like being around a compulsive liar, it can almost be funny. They fabricate things to fit their story.

I’ve seen Doms this way. When it gets to be at the psychiatric disorder stage is when they start imagining they are some type of link to an ancient god or something and have the inherent right to be served.

ROFLMAO.  Would it help if i altered my profile to read:
 
"If You are laboring under the delusion that You are the reincarnation of Zeus, please do not email me."?
 
candystripper
 

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ORIGINAL: lisa1978

I do not know how many people are aware of a personality disorder called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It is basically (I am not a doctor so I am sorry if I butcher this), a person who has a self idealized image and belief in themselves that they are better or superior to everyone and searches out people and activities to give them external validation of their belief.

They are people who have to be the center of attention at all times. For example, might be in a group who are talking about American Idol but since they do not watch the show they try to very abruptly change the subject or explain how stupid it is. To them every boss and coworker is a moron and everything they do or talk about is phrased as vitally important or very noble.

They end up changing friends they hang out with every few years as they abandon them. They are quick to ask favors but never do favors for anybody and when confronted about something or a criticism they then go to personal and irrational attacks of the people confronting them.

The reason I bring this up is, I have had real life non D/s experience with a couple and in one case her parents tried to do an intervention for her.  I was wondering if anybody else has seen people with this disorder try to immerse themselves as Doms or Masters?

When I was active in a local community and several people I have corresponded with online have come off as very much having this disorder. I just think that maybe this lifestyle might draw people with the disorder as dominants in order to mistakenly find a sub or a slave to worship them and feed their addiction.

Please let me clarify one thing. I do not believe that you can be a Dom/Domme/Master/Mistress with this disorder. So I am in no way saying that a percentage of dominants have this. All I am saying is there might be some wolves in sheep’s clothing. To me these people that would be in the lifestyle almost certainly are without subs or slaves and/or go through them very quickly and always blame harshly the sub and slave for the failed relationship.

For me personally, I am always on the look out for this, because of my regular experience with a few narcissists that can be tough and painful.

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ORIGINAL: sharainks

Simply, for the most part diagnosing mental illness is insurance driven.  It is also an issue with Social Security  disability. If someone has schizophrenia and without a pill they have hallucinations or other symptoms that are so severe that they can't hold a job, have reasonably normal relationships with people, etc they go for that. Especially if  with the pill they can function normally have a job etc they believe that treating them is worthwhile. 

If one is dysfunctional due to their personality you can't treat that too well.  Insurance often balks at meds for these people because they don't work.  Some companies even balk at therapy,.

Furthermore people with personality disorders (Axis 2) do not usually qualify to get Social Security Disability.  People with treatable clinical disorders (Axis 1) who are severely impaired by their illness do often qualify.  Disorders like Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, etc fall in this range. 

I'm with the person who stated if you ever met someone who really had one of these disorders you could tell something was wrong.  Instead of just saying that guy's a jerk, or "really out there" you now have a name for it.  Insurance companies don't find much of use in those terms.  They want a set standard description for what is going on and how it affects them.

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ORIGINAL: Chaingang

An ex-girlfriend of mine was/is involved in one of those multi-year ordeals of going to a Freudian Psychiatrist, she's been going for at least 7-8 years about twice a week.

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ORIGINAL: lisa1978

Again I will say what many of us have said in this thread. You can argue about personality disorders are real until Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields come to our rescue, but if you have ever had significant direct contact with someone who has one, you totally understand this is not about one or two symptoms and at least a name for how these people live and behave is valuable.

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ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

Just in case anyone reading this thread would rather find a few helpful resources rather than ascerbic, condescending, endless rhetorical debate

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Why does everyone keep assuming that you could not possibly have met a narcissist if you don't believe in NPD?  Believe me, I've met narcissists.  I work with one.  The word existed long before the alleged personality disorder.

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ORIGINAL: lisa1978

Again I will say what many of us have said in this thread. You can argue about personality disorders are real until Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields come to our rescue, but if you have ever had significant direct contact with someone who has one, you totally understand this is not about one or two symptoms and at least a name for how these people live and behave is valuable.