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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:43:57 PM

xxblushesxx

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I suspect we're only hearing less than half of the story.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:46:05 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It is your legal right to be a lesbian and your legal right to have sex. Should I have to watch you having sex on a park bench? For the record, I don't care to see ANYONE regardless of sexual preference having sex on a park bench, before you attempt (foolishly) to make an issue of that.

Having sex is legal.
Having sex in public is not legal.
Breastfeeding in public is legal.

So how exactly does a legal act compare to an illegal one, just because the legal one CAN be illegal in certain circumstances?

Once again, slowly, so you understand with a different comparison, more simplistic to fit those minds. Kissing and making out in public (fully clothed) is not illegal. But would be considered inappropriate in court. What your lady is wearing in your avatar is completely legal, and quit nice I might add. It is NOT, however, appropriate for her to wear to appear in court.

This is not a matter of legality and never has been, except for that is what the "let her do what she wants" crowd has brought it up. The point is that while many things may be legal, not all of them should be done in all places.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:48:48 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Your choice (and like it or not, breastfeeding IS a choice) to breastfeed your child DOES NOT super-cede someone else's right in public places.

What right?

Hey, instead of ranting against something natural and inoffensive, you might instead rant about cars murdering millions of people every year, cars disturbing the peace with their noises, light pollution of the skies at night, people being shot in public places, and the loud music produced by noise trolls who disturb and stress out their neighbors. Or you could go to and make rich a shrink to remove your quaint and improper objections and obsessions against public breast-feeding.

What makes you so sure I don't take actions and position against those things.

The beauty of where I live is that ignorant people like you don't get to decide what is "improper" for me. Needless to say, being familiar with a good number of your posts, you really aren't in a position to be talking about who could make a shrink rich.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:51:23 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

dammit
laws by state regarding breast feeding and lactating moms, with stats on where it is allowable to feed public and private
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389

I've already seen that site, and it means very little. Because while she can rant and rave about how upset the whole thing has made here, she would have to take legal action for it to have any bearing. The bailiff and the judge are immune from prosecution, so perhaps you might want to look that up.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:53:19 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I've already seen that site, and it means very little. Because while she can rant and rave about how upset the whole thing has made here, she would have to take legal action for it to have any bearing. The bailiff and the judge are immune from prosecution, so perhaps you might want to look that up.

Why are they immune from prosecution and wouldn't it be a civil suit anyway?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:54:25 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

dammit
laws by state regarding breast feeding and lactating moms, with stats on where it is allowable to feed public and private
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389

I've already seen that site, and it means very little. Because while she can rant and rave about how upset the whole thing has made here, she would have to take legal action for it to have any bearing. The bailiff and the judge are immune from prosecution, so perhaps you might want to look that up.

The judge probably is, LL but I'm not sure about the baliff.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:55:37 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned" I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's
Certainly.

However, please keep in mind that you asked me to point them out to you, so don't be complaining about it now that I have.

quote:

Having breast fed three children, I can tell you that a mother knows about when her child will be hungry, and it is possible to take steps to avoid breast feeding in improper places.
The idea that there are places where it is improper to do so is ridiculous.

quote:

Re-schedule.
As others have pointed out, courts don't just put cases off because your kid isn't feeling his best, the idea that they would readily reschedule the proceedings over an earache is ridiculous.

Your ignorance stated with such confidence is amusing at best. Nope the court MIGHT NOT reschedule and couldn't give two shits about her kid's ear infection. However, as a witness, the attorney who wanted her to testify (which would be highly unusual in a Family Law case to begin with, more likely she was there for moral support), should have told her what was appropriate.

Of course, I would never expect someone who isn't from the country and was a teenage high school drop out to actually KNOW what they were talking about when it comes to US legal matters.

There is more to having a point than calling people ridiculous and having conviction. You need to actually have something, other than your opinoin to base your statements on.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 6:59:48 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

That's an assumption that is unfairly held.

Actually, as I stated, this is what I have experienced. I never intimated that you in particular were of that type.

quote:

My only curiousity really only is in why it seems such a drama for those that find it inappropriate in *places*. As I said, in my culture it's nothing of any note or interest......other than rather encouraging nods, if noticed.

I'm trying to imagine something, ANYTHING about breastfeeding that is inappropriate, and I can't.

It's the most quiet act there is going. I find your comment * being subjected to it* one of the most silliest in a long time.

( I do actually dispute that people shouldn't be nude wherever they want but that's another issue altogether)

And 'though you didn't ask me, yes, I breast fed in church and pretty much anywhere and everywhere.....as and when the need arose.

As I have already mentioned........ in the UK, you'd look and be treated as an utter arse if you made an unnecessary fuss over quiet, discreet and natural behaviour.

agirl

Actually, courts often find it inappropriate for a child to be in the court room at all. It is not a place they belong, any more than a movie theater. There are places that are not appropriate, regardless of child care issues, for a small child to be.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:04:10 PM

Lucylastic

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and I dont care what you think of that site, if you can show me a legal ruling about courts being classed as out of bounds for breast feeding moms, AND show me the cites proving that particular site and the legal links to the laws on the actual books are wrong, I will continue to say that my right as a breastfeeding mother, entitles me to breastfeed when my child needs it.
Would I? dunno I never had to, I have taken a baby to a funeral, not breastfed tho. I did it, I encourage it, I did it three times, ANd I will be vociferous in standing up for womens rights UNDER the law. If there is no law against women feeding in a law building, then they (baliff and judge) were wrong.
Its that simple is it against the law or isnt it
If its lawful...get it changed

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:14:38 PM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It is your legal right to be a lesbian and your legal right to have sex. Should I have to watch you having sex on a park bench? For the record, I don't care to see ANYONE regardless of sexual preference having sex on a park bench, before you attempt (foolishly) to make an issue of that.

Having sex is legal.
Having sex in public is not legal.
Breastfeeding in public is legal.

So how exactly does a legal act compare to an illegal one, just because the legal one CAN be illegal in certain circumstances?

Once again, slowly, so you understand with a different comparison, more simplistic to fit those minds. Kissing and making out in public (fully clothed) is not illegal. But would be considered inappropriate in court. What your lady is wearing in your avatar is completely legal, and quit nice I might add. It is NOT, however, appropriate for her to wear to appear in court.

This is not a matter of legality and never has been, except for that is what the "let her do what she wants" crowd has brought it up. The point is that while many things may be legal, not all of them should be done in all places.

If you're merely talking about something inappropriate, then why on Earth do you keep falling back to examples of things that are illegal?
The kissing comparison is a much more apt one, but breastfeeding in a court room does NOT equate to having sex in a public park, and the fact that you would make that comparison to begin with is astonishing.

You've also never gotten back to me on why on Earth you would feel that it's inappropriate for a woman to breastfeed in a church, when women have been doing it for thousands of years and currently still do it all over the world. You make it sound like it's a given that a woman wouldn't breastfeed in church, while for the vast vast vast majority of the history of churches, and still to this day in most countries, it's a given that a woman would breastfeed in church rather than miss the mass.

BTW... I am the lady in the picture.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 11/15/2011 7:17:15 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:15:52 PM

barelynangel

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As far as i am aware, there are no breast feeding laws or discrimination rights in Michigan outside of a woman can't be cited for public nudity if she is breastfeeding. I think there was one in the works but i can't find where it was passed.

This occured in Michigan.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:17:21 PM

xxblushesxx

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This conversation was never about the law. There's not a law against you going into a full theater, and farting and burping loudly over and over. Is it appropriate? Same thing with making out in church. There isn't a law for every single situation that could possibly ever happen, but common sense dictates restraint and civility.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:17:43 PM

AneNoz

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quote:

Once again, slowly, so you understand with a different comparison, more simplistic to fit those minds. Kissing and making out in public (fully clothed) is not illegal. But would be considered inappropriate in court.

If this the case, how is it that you failed to so say? If it was a comparison to another legal act such as kissing in a court you wished to make, why was it a comparison to a thing not legal, such as engaging in public sex on a park bench, that you did make?

My Beloved Helena has, I think seen the truth in this. It is that you place great import on your profession, and it is, in your eyes as a great and solemn thing, and it is to you as a slap to the face that others do not as well see the law as such. Nor see the courtroom as its temple.

Often have I seen this with practitioners of the law, in the dedication to the ideal they lose themselves and so lose the sight for the truth that first drew them to their craft. The law is as a slave to the people, it is not the master to be served. The court is not as a temple for the recitation of truths, it is as a kitchen around which table the family gathers to correct its ills. It is a place for truth and justice, not a place of trickery and stratagem targeted upon manipulations. It is a place of challenge and passions, not a place for obeisance and surrender. It is the place of the rebel, and not so the conformist.

Always must those who serve the law recall that the law is itself but a servant. It is for the court and the judge to be displaying respect for the people, for it is the people who rule, it is they who are as the master.

Be at peace
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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:26:57 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I may have missed something, so will ask...... is it illegal or against some state rule to breastfeed in the place she did? Did she break a law of some kind?

agirl

You do understand the difference between "legal" and "appropriate," do you not?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:28:46 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I may have missed something, so will ask...... is it illegal or against some state rule to breastfeed in the place she did? Did she break a law of some kind?

A lot of them USA people are conditioned (i.e. brainwashed) to regard naked skin as a sexual, reprehensible act.

Ah yes, now you are an expert in American citizens as well as our legal system. Got it.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:29:24 PM

windchymes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

This conversation was never about the law. There's not a law against you going into a full theater, and farting and burping loudly over and over. Is it appropriate? Same thing with making out in church. There isn't a law for every single situation that could possibly ever happen, but common sense dictates restraint and civility.

Common sense dictating restraint and civility also could pertain to having enough maturity and self-control to turn away from a distraction and focus on the matter at hand. Okay, someone's breastfeeding in the corner. That clerk just dropped her legal pad. The steno girl's skirt is really short. The attorney is wearing an ugly tie. Somebody is blowing their nose. Now back to the judge.....

If you are that completely blown away by the fact that someone is breastfeeding a baby that you can't focus on legal proceedings, then there are some other issues that should be dealt with.

(Generic "you", not directed at anybody specifically!)

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:29:58 PM

Lucylastic

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To me it is about the law when it comes to the right of a child to feed, and its mother feeding it.
sensibilities against a hungry child, a hurting child a child that needs comforting
sorry , doesnt fit in my book
the laws to protectpregnant and breastfeeding women were fought for years ago and added to the books for a bloody good reason
personal morality is too hard to legislate beyond equality and non discrimination. If you wanna ban it, you are gonna have to change the law.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:31:37 PM

windchymes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

A lot of them USA people are conditioned (i.e. brainwashed) to regard naked skin as a sexual, reprehensible act.

And God bless them, one and all!

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:33:41 PM

barelynangel

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Lucylastic, Can you cite whatever Michigan law you are speaking about? The only thing i am finding on a basic google search is that they are exempt from public nudity laws, i am not finding any laws regarding discriminating against them is illegal, yet. I think they do have a bill trying to be put through but don't think it's passed.

angel

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 7:36:51 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Because when you're in court, you're supposed to be giving your entire attention to the proceedings, as are the people around you.

Even when the case has nothing to do with you?

Yes, even when the case has nothing to do with you. You are in the room, behave appropriately.

quote:

quote:

The preparations and what you're doing in between the feeding is distracting, whether someone else agrees or not.

She was already breastfeeding quietly in the BACK of the courtroom and the bailiff had to ask TWICE if she was nursing before throwing a hissy fit (because if he had to ask twice, she wasn't exactly being obvious). Most people probably just thought she was cuddling her baby. With a little planning (wearing a nursing top), the preparation to nurse is minimal as is any skin that might be exposed for a moment.

Actually, unsurprisingly, you are only hearing what SHE said occured. The court personnel say something different.

quote:

quote:

You don't put on makeup, text or breast feed when you're supposed to be paying attention.

And if the case that is currently being heard has nothing to do with you, are you still supposed to be paying attention? Can you read a book or magazine instead or is a person responsible for someone having the attention-span of a gnat?

In short, no you can't. You want to read a book, wait for your case to be called? Leave the room. Those are the rules, like them or not, but you do need to follow them. Now not all courts necessarily follow that, however, in general that is the case.

quote:

quote:

You also shouldn't do things that may distract those around you. Someone else's life may ride on the fact that there are no distractions.

Christina, like the bailiff I think you are blowing this WAY out of proportion. This was not a capital punishment case and it seems as if the bailiff was the only one having trouble keeping his eyes on the courtroom instead of oogling her breasts and being jealous of an infant.

Ok, so if YOUR attorney was distracted and you lost custody of your kids, oh well. After all, it isn't like you are facing the electric chair.

As a point of fact, a bailiff has the responsibility of watching the entire court room and making sure that EVERYONE's safety is taken care of. They need to be aware if some whack job decides not simply they want to attack the judge, but that the parties aren't going to attack each other, or someone in the court isn't going to attack someone. This would be why you are treated as though you are in a school room.

But I get it, you don't really care or know these things.

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