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RE: fired for family issues - 11/19/2011 10:35:27 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Listen very carefully and see if this actually soaks into your brain:

This is NOT about a boss's forgetfulness. It is about employees who did not properly follow up.

Of course, since you started out with nothing more than second and third hand information, it doesn't really make any difference.

You drive, go to the temp agency and ask for the old man's job. He was just moving cars around. Surely, you are competent enough to do that.


Agreed. I have a list of shit to do a mile long. Like I said, put it in writing, and ask me again in a week to make sure I got it and took care of it. No offense, but, I'm running a business, trying to pay company bills, make sure I'm getting enough profit to actually pay my employees, making sure I'm able to get enough supply, ingredients, equipment for everyone to even HAVE a damn job, worrying about the taxes, have you SEEN what business insurance looks like by the way, need to get that cooler fixed, then with any luck I'll have enough left over to pay myself so I can have a fucking roof over my head as well. Ohhh health department is coming by this week by the way, and of course they're showing up on inventory day because I don't have enough to deal with, Joe just changed his party the day after tomorrow from 80 to 250... do you REALLY think, for a fucking second that your great auntie Matilda's wedding falls anywhere in the top 50 on my priorities list of 'shit to remember RIGHT NOW'?

If it's that goddamned important, take two fucking minutes to write it down, and take 30 seconds in a week to come up to me and say "Hey, did you remember that request for a day off I put in?" Chances are good I'll say "Yep, got it right here, getting it taken care of." OR, worst case scenario, "Oh shit, forgot about that, let me take care of that right now.", as I pull it off of my cork board and thank you for reminding me.

You're a grown up, in a grown up world, and guess what. On top of all of the work shit I have to worry about, I have probably about the same home life as you when it comes to responsibilities. If you don't like it, then move the fuck on. In this economy I'm pretty sure it won't be too goddamned difficult to find someone to fill your position.

EDIT: Using the term "You" as a general "you", not as in "YOU, LafayetteLady!". ;)

< Message edited by BKSir -- 11/19/2011 10:36:22 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 12:44:26 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl



Lots of people are afraid of oncologists. They don't only perform surgery. They also poison with chemo and radiation. Oh yeah, how could I forget your snark comment about chemo brain? Instead of googling it, you assumed it doesn't exist. I also read threads posted by women who had been through radiation treatment and could never have sex again because of the PERMANENT damage it caused. I was told a gynecologist was qualified to perform a hysterectomy for precancerous conditions.



All the oncologists I have met during my cancer diagnosis and treatment have been wonderful. I know they deal with telling a patient  they have possible terminal cancer with sympathy and understanding.

As for the "poison" comment, that is ridiculous. I had an orange sized tumour removed from my brain, followed by whole brain radiotherapy to remove any remaining cancer cells. It certainly did not poison me in any way.

In the UK we have a fantastic cancer charity called McMillan where they give support and information to cancer sufferers and their families. A quick look at that and a couple of other sites show that whilst sexual problems following radiotherapy for the issue you are discussing can happen it is very rare.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 4:49:53 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

It just makes no sense that employees are blamed for a boss's forgetfulness.


But you see, we are ensuring that there is no possibility of forgetfulness, and thus no bad situation, and no blame.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 6:06:57 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		FR~

I have to say something about the health care again, even though this isn't a thread specifically about that. I don't know the OP's situation specifically - I do think I remember in general the thread about it - but I have a hard time laying blame for anyone's choices when it comes to their own healthcare, especially if they are under the additional stress of a possible awful diagnosis. People make choices when faced with decisions, and who are we to say whether their choices were good ones or not? One's person acceptable risk is not another's. And though I respect healthcare professionals very much, no - they certainly don't know everything. My own healthcare choices are not always the popular ones with my doctors, but I am often more nontraditional and I have to accept that they are more conventionally trained. It certainly doesn't make me ignorant or to blame...it means I choose a different path. That's all.

BUT

Defense of any healthcare choices aside, OP, you DO have a victim mentality. If you had received something from your employer in writing to say that you had the day off, I would say you were free from your responsibility to ensure your day off at that point. If you can only go by a posted scheduled....well yes, of course, you need to follow up.

I would never go by verbal approval. That means nothing. As I think DarkSteven said, at least put it in an email so the response/approval will be recorded in the reply. It's called CYA. If you take responsibility for being sure your ass is covered - in any situation - you will find yourself the victim much less often, I bet.





(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 6:47:13 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

It just makes no sense that employees are blamed for a boss's forgetfulness.



Actually it has nothing at all to do with blame or fault: it had to do with responsibility: as an amployee, it was/is your responsibility to make certain your boss gives you permission for any days off requested; making certain means getting something in writing or confirmation by email.

That covers everyone's asses.

What you do not realise is that requests for days off are just a small part of your employer's duties.
You were working in a group residence.
The residents' various issues, not to mention the various regulations that an agency has to follow, the individual record keeping, household and personal budgets... are just a start of what is involved before one gets into scheduling.

Btw: had you researched FMLA before your surgery you would have known they might not keep your position open.
Had you gotten a second opinion, you might not have needed that particular surgery (given that it WAS a pre-cancerous condition, a LEAP procedure might have worked).
Had you recieved care from an oncology-gynocology specialist, you likely would not have been given chemo or radiation; again: precancerous condition.

You were going to lose your medicaid: did you check to see if they might continue it once your job was lost, or if further complications ensued? Here it is income based.

Seriously, when you do get health insurance I suggest counseling so that you can learn to have a more balanced life: less worst case scenario, less negativity, more joy, more self-responsibility and less victimhood.

I know you don't see that latter behavior at all; that doesn't mean it isn't present. Start off counseling by saying some people think I have a victim stance and then relate your life.
It could change everything for you and things could be wonder-filled.

_____________________________

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(as deemed by He who owns me)

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30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 8:26:47 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		OP, I don't think you are a victim. I think you have made some bad decisions about some important things, even you admit that. Everyone makes bad decisions, sometimes, no one is as perfect as they try to project themselves on these boards. What you need to work on is your decision making skills. Do you make decisions too quickly? Do you not get enough information? Do you rely too much or too little on intuition? Are you too risk adverse or not risk adverse enough?

On this issue, I didn't even realize that there was so much hostility towards bosses. I am an employer, and I know sometimes I am really angry with my staff, but I don't feel hostility towards "employees" just because they are employees. I like to think we are all working for the same goal, the profitability and future success or our firm.

I have had some terrible secretaries over the years. I had one a long time ago that I liked personally, but she made lots of mistakes. Like when calendaring appointments, she would get the address of the appointment wrong, and I would go to the wrong place. Or she would misspell words on documents she wrote, or not find mistakes when she was editing. She was just not good at her job. The last straw was when she called in the day before I was leaving on a two week vacation, even though we were swamped, and said she had to drive her brother to what sounded like a scheduled doctor's appointment. She said on her voice mail that she knew this would put me in a bind, but family came first, and her mother was insisting she do this. Well, of course I fired her. I am sure she told everyone that she lost here job because she was taking her sick brother to the doctor, but she and I both knew that wasn't true. The only reason I didn't fire her before was because I liked her personally.

I had a more recent secretary who had even worse skills, who missed a lot of work because her kid was sick. I had kids, I try to be sympathetic with that sort of thing. However, I decided things ran better when she wasn't there, so I fired her, too. I am sure she tells everyone she got fired because she was trying to be a good mother. She and I both know that isn't true.

My point is that you don't know the whole story in either of the cases in your OP. No one is ever going to confess their own faults when telling the story of why they were fired.

My assistant now is fantastic, the best I ever had. I know she cares about my firm and my practice, she shows it every day in the high quality of her work. If she wanted time off, for any reason and even at the last minute, she would get it. She is the type who would remind me several times if she was taking a scheduled day off, even if it is on the calendar

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 8:28:51 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I wish I could edit my last post, but my iPad won't let me.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 8:53:15 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		IASS, just post an edited version as another post. Not seamless, but we'll get the picture.

Angelika...I'm really glad you're posting again. You're a warm, intelligent person, and always have a lot to add. I thought your post was spot on.

It's always frustrating dealing with those that refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Saying I didn't know, or it shouldn't be that way, just doesn't cut it. When I taught grade school that type of thing got nipped off early in a firm but gentle manner. That type of attitude pushes the responsibility for your life into other people's laps, and they will continually let  you down, because you just aren't that important to them or they might not even know you exist.

You aren't that special OP that everyone is going to make sure that you are taken care of; stand up for yourself, take control, and find all kinds of opportunities there that will present themselves. There's a difference between being nasty and belligerent or asking for what is due to you in a firm, respectful manner. I'm going to toss my vote in there too to see someone and work on the victim mentality. It permeates your posts like bad air freshener. Sorry, IASS, have to disagree with you on that one.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 9:52:34 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Had you gotten a second opinion, you might not have needed that particular surgery (given that it WAS a pre-cancerous condition, a LEAP procedure might have worked).
Had you recieved care from an oncology-gynocology specialist, you likely would not have been given chemo or radiation; again: precancerous condition.


Many people thought my gynecologist was overreacting to insist on a hysterectomy. Following her recommendation saved my life. It didn't turn out to be a precancerous condition. I had invasive stage 1B cervical adenocarcinoma.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 10:46:44 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The last straw was when she called in the day before I was leaving on a two week vacation, even though we were swamped, and said she had to drive her brother to what sounded like a scheduled doctor's appointment. She said on her voice mail that she knew this would put me in a bind, but family came first, and her mother was insisting she do this. Well, of course I fired her. I am sure she told everyone that she lost here job because she was taking her sick brother to the doctor, but she and I both knew that wasn't true.


Exactly!

I am sure the examples in the OP were also "last straw" situations.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 11:21:16 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Having worked in consulting for 15 years, I've been in hire n fire companies in Tennessee (a Work at Will State.)   They ramp up then ramp down as staffing is needed.   

If they're in a ramp down mode, the quality of the work is irrelevant and they'll use any excuse to dump someone unless it's a person brings in work (e.g. good at marketing or a project manager who markets to existing clients.)   They put little value on quality unless they're in a ramp up mode.

On the subject of "Work at Will State", this means they can lay you off with no reason given and are best to NOT give a reason.   It means you can still get unemployment compensation, but they are protected from a wrongful dismissal lawsuit.   If they dump you for cause, you can't get unemployment but you have a much better case for wrongful dismissal.

Qualifying for FMLA is a different story entirely and requires prior notice before you take leave.   Typically, you take sick days or vacation days per company policy until you qualify for it.    That or you have a situation that is coming in advance and you know to apply for it in advance.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 1:40:48 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		No worries, BK. I took it as you were talking about the "you" I was talking about.

I worked in food service for years on and off. One place, initially all we had to do was find someone to cover our shift. Until those people started conveniently "forgetting" they agreed to do it. Then the manager would make someone sign saying they agreed to work. I was a trainer as well, and when something came up, I was typically with him when he wrote on the calendar that I needed a particular day off. I usually covered for everyone, so when I wanted time off, it was never an issue.

The point is, like you said, managers/owners have a lot going on and it is very self absorbed for any employee to think that them saying something about a day off is their top priority. I've known a lot of "flighty" type management people. It isn't hard to notice, after all. You take them by the hand, make sure they put it on the calendar. They typically appreciate someone helping them keep at least one thing organized.

(in reply to BKSir)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 1:58:52 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Had you gotten a second opinion, you might not have needed that particular surgery (given that it WAS a pre-cancerous condition, a LEAP procedure might have worked).
Had you recieved care from an oncology-gynocology specialist, you likely would not have been given chemo or radiation; again: precancerous condition.


Many people thought my gynecologist was overreacting to insist on a hysterectomy. Following her recommendation saved my life. It didn't turn out to be a precancerous condition. I had invasive stage 1B cervical adenocarcinoma.



In one of your posts here, you stated it was precancerous.... sorry for my confusion.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 2:42:11 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmm, two things I didn't see mentioned...

1 penny thought>  Employment contract... if you are an "employee at will" you can be laid off for any reason at any time.  This is different from being "fired" which has to be for cause.  If laid off, you can get unemployment compensation and continuation of insurance under COBRA.

2 penny thought>  Someone mentioned FMLA... that guarantees you your job back after taking time off for certain family needs.  It deals with illness, pregnancy and illness of MINOR children.  If he daughter was pregnant, was she a minor?

My two cents worth,

Stefan

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 2:58:44 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Hmmm, two things I didn't see mentioned...

1 penny thought>  Employment contract... if you are an "employee at will" you can be laid off for any reason at any time.  This is different from being "fired" which has to be for cause.  If laid off, you can get unemployment compensation and continuation of insurance under COBRA.


One correction.    You are eligible for COBRA regardless of the reason for dismissal.   The only qualifying requirement for COBRA is that you were already under the employer's health care program.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 11/20/2011 2:59:01 PM >

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: fired for family issues - 11/20/2011 3:20:21 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Hmmm, two things I didn't see mentioned...

1 penny thought>  Employment contract... if you are an "employee at will" you can be laid off for any reason at any time.  This is different from being "fired" which has to be for cause.  If laid off, you can get unemployment compensation and continuation of insurance under COBRA.

2 penny thought>  Someone mentioned FMLA... that guarantees you your job back after taking time off for certain family needs.  It deals with illness, pregnancy and illness of MINOR children.  If he daughter was pregnant, was she a minor?

My two cents worth,

Stefan

There is another manager who is taking the intermittent FMLA, to take her mom to doctors visits.  Here, it covers immediate family, which includes siblings and parents.  You just have to do the paperwork at HR and have the doctor do their part also.

It really is a great thing to have.  I used it when mom was sick, it allowed me to take her to all her appointments, and to take her to home hospice and allow her to die in her home.  I wouldn't take a million bucks for being able to fo that for her.


_____________________________

yep

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 116
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