RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/29/2011 6:22:34 AM)

More lube!




OsideGirl -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/29/2011 10:47:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilsrigger
I think being submissive, it is probably very hard for you to really understand the mindset of a 'true' slave.
You have no idea what my mind set is and or what our power dynamic is, so don't presume to know what I think.



quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Devilsrigger, your problem is that you don't understand that your way, and your definition of "true" aren't the only ones that exist. This girl may be great for you, but not every person considers things like that to be features of their brand of ownership. One person owns a lapdog, while another owns a fire & rescue dog -- totally different manners of existence, and yet both are just as valid. Who are you to say one person's style of ownership, and thus the type of slave they have, is less than? No you're not a god, you're just a guy who puts too much stock in his own opinions.

You're attempting to apply your preferences as an umbrella over everyone, and judge everyone who doesn't fit your preferences as "less than" which is a really... unappealing way of thinking.


Thank you!




devilsrigger -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/29/2011 11:43:39 AM)

tazzygirl-

I'd like to oblige, but as I've been insulted, threatened, and laden with implications not actually found within what I wrote, I don't think it would be prudent to do so.  Largely, this entire discussion is proof of the worthlessness of forums.  Instead of encouraging free dialogue they discourage it and become ruled by the outspoken self-righteous few.  Even this final post will be misunderstood, argued over, responded to by those who must have the last word.

For what it's worth, I wish you all the best.
DR





tazzygirl -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/29/2011 11:47:38 AM)

No argument. Your leaving proves me right.

Well wishes




SimplyMichael -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/29/2011 12:49:58 PM)

I will give you the last word but only because I love irony...

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilsrigger

tazzygirl-

  Instead of encouraging free dialogue they discourage it and become ruled by the outspoken self-righteous few.  Even this final post will be misunderstood, argued over, responded to by those who must have the last word.





BossyShoeBitch -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/30/2011 8:00:24 AM)

A thread that went sour but didn't dissolve into all-out newbie bashing? I'm very impressed!

[sm=cheering.gif]




kalikshama -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/30/2011 8:06:19 AM)

Where's our New to the Forums forum?




heartfeltsub -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/30/2011 9:37:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What you get when you take a battered woman who feels helpless and without teaching her to first be strong and independant isnt a slave but a battered woman who feels helpless and still has very bad taste in men. Its kinda like the kid with the POS car with a loud muffler, he's all proud but the rest of us just laugh.

Slavery in the kinky sense isnt about how low you can degrade someone, its about the contrast between who they are for others and about who they are for you.



i really like the part that i bolded. As someone who loves humiliation play, but restricts fiercely who i do it with, it speaks volumes about why i do restrict it when it makes me so hot.

Thanks,

heartfelt




SimplyMichael -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/30/2011 3:00:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

A thread that went sour but didn't dissolve into all-out newbie bashing? I'm very impressed!

[sm=cheering.gif]


Spectacular pom poms!




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (11/30/2011 3:32:54 PM)

I would not pick someone who wanted to change the very core of who I am. Once I found out in the negotiation stage that is what he expected I'd say oh hell no and show him the "door."




Rectio -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (12/3/2011 10:09:53 AM)

It will vary greatly with how much she desires to please her master. At one end of the scale you have "I'd do anything to please him".  Somewhere in the middle you have "I'd try to do anything to please him, but I'd fail a lot because there are certain things about me that I just can't control".  On the other end you have "I'll do what he's asking as long as it's something that gets me off anyway".

The the closer he comes to evoking the "I'd do anything" response, the more he dominates the girl.  No more, no less.




mons -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (12/5/2011 3:28:45 AM)

Darksteven

I agree with you, you have made a difference in her abling  too stop smoking, she cares for you and know your dislike of
smoking so you have given her something to reach for and stopping smoking is so hard , yes it is you and her
together, i am( appauld )you for helping her, but watch out a sweet tooth will come out and it good!  (that word maybe spelled wrong

mons




kalikshama -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (12/6/2011 8:10:18 AM)

quote:

I can change her as much as she will allow it.  For example, Tasha is about to quit smoking.  She knows it's bad for her and that I hate it.  I doubt she'd quit if it were not for my influence and disapproval.


Has she started? How's it going?




Awareness -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (12/6/2011 10:09:34 AM)

  I'm afraid 'core' is a nebulous term.  The most equivalent idea is that of identity.

And what can be changed?  Practically everything.

Human minds are essentially a construct of beliefs, routines and responses.  It's not quite that simple of course, but it's a lot simpler than most people would like to believe.  Given the proper technique, practically everything is amenable to change.  It depends entirely upon the skill, ethics and knowledge of the master in question.

Human beings have far less free will than they would like to think.  For the most part, our responses are dictated by routines we've established, some of which originated so long ago, we've forgotten we ever did without them.  Our minds are essentially constructed by interaction with the world of our senses.  As we interact, we create higher and higher level representational constructs which escalate from simple representations of the reality which our senses provide, to abstract concepts and ideas which are founded upon beliefs which are drawn from experience and inference.

We do this automatically, and as we do, it lays down memories which provide us with ready responses to the wide variety of decision-making which confronts us in our life.  Most of us don't think about the complexity of walking because the established muscle routines which make it possible to balance and walk are laid down so long ago and with such continuous reinforcement, that it requires no effort to revive and initiate them.

Higher level aspects include our social responses and belief structures about ourselves, others and the physical and social universe in which we reside.  That cocktail of beliefs comprises our model of the world and through synthesis, allows us to predict the outcome of an anticipated event - with varying degrees of success.

Manipulating beliefs is one high-level way of changing behaviour.  A step down from that is using operant conditioning.  Fundamentally, people share the same basic drives.  Fear and greed.  The avoidance of pain, the pursuit of pleasure.  It's the varying differences in what constitutes pleasure, pain, fear and greed for people which gives rise to such huge variance.  And by understanding that representation and working with it, quite interesting things are possible.

It's possible, for example, for simple conversation to change a woman in her 20's brought up in a matriarchal home who associates guilt with sex into a sub with slave tendencies who craves her master's attention and pleasure.

The question of how much a Master should change his slave is ultimately up to him.  I question anyone who thinks they're genuinely in an M/s relationship but feels there's some aspect of themselves which is off-limits.  Either you're a slave, or you're playing at being one.  If you're a slave, then you have no choices other than what your Master allows.  If you're not, then this conversation simply isn't for you.




Awareness -> RE: How much can a Master actually change a slave? (12/18/2011 8:19:25 PM)

  Bumped because the mods were asleep at the fucking wheel.




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