RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (Full Version)

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Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/24/2011 7:15:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

eta...last night I made 140 bucks in 4.5 hours. Not ever going to happen in any other profession, at least a legit one.



That's only $31 an hour.
There are plenty of legitimate jobs that make a LOT more than that.



Cash? Plus the 8 bucks an hour wage? So....39 bucks an hour for a part time gig? In  this economy, I doubt it. Not around here anyway. Besides, I own my own business and that is mentally grueling so this is a part time "fun" job. It pays me well, and gives me extra money for incidentals without tapping into my savings. I'm good with it. Last night was a weeknight too, and not that busy. On a Friday or Saturday, I walk with about 200 to 250 for the same amount of hours and again....it's cash. I'll keep it, thanks. 



You didn't specify cash. You said "not ever going to happen in any other legitimate profession".

I'm by no means saying that $39 an hour isn't a really nice hourly wage.
And if it has to be cash, there aren't a ton of other jobs that will exceed that, though there are still plenty disqualifying the "any" of your claim.
If it doesn't have to be in cash, there are literally hundreds of professions out there that easily make more than that.

I'm not trying to diss your effort, or your wages or anything, just correcting the claim that making that amount, or more, isn't possible in other professions. Even staying in the service and food industry there are other professions that can easily equal or exceed your weekend tips.



ShaharThorne -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/24/2011 7:32:35 PM)

I have been a waitress and dishwasher for Pizza Hut and a lineperson for Domino's.

I also had dealings with the cab industry.

I always tip my hairdresser, my cabbie, the manicurist, the waitstaff and so forth and I get $763 a month on disability.  I tip between 15% and 20%.

If the cabbie remembers me from the years I was with Bo, they always go the extra mile to ensure that they get a good tip (handling my luggage, putting the radio on classical or jazz music).



MadAxeman -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 2:18:22 AM)

Britain doesn't have a tipping culture.
Simply seeing 'service included' means to many of us that we've been stiffed and charged for something that should be down to how well it gets done, not an addition regardless of performance.
Some places here have 'tip conscious' prices. There's no other sensible reason for my barber to have prices like £18.10 on his board.
Cabs are slightly different. These are mostly driven by desperados taking the longest route to screw the customer. It's a contest. Occasionally proper human beings do this job and will help an elderly person with their shopping or see them safely to their door on a dark night. We tend to tip these people automatically, even when they've done a simple A to B, no conversation, stinking of body odour and the surly hand held out.

When visiting America, we're often told about tip culture and if we can, we adjust. It's not second nature. A friend of mine was followed into the street by a red faced waiter demanding to know what was wrong with the service 'you limey cheapskate' this person is one of the most generous individuals I know and felt she was being shamed and verbally assaulted.
I would much prefer to not have to do sums after a nice meal, spesh if it included alcohol. One also feels that a character assessment is being made. How good were you at your job, do I like you? Plus how cheap am I? Am I now supposed to be representing my country and try and move us up the skinflint table? What happens if you're checking the menu visible at some fast food place that's facing out onto the street which says blah blah 15, coffee 2 and you have a 20. OK, that sounds good, you eat then get the bill with all sorts of random crap on it you've never heard of or were aware you had benefited from. Suddenly you're fishing through your pockets to find enough change to pay the main, let alone the tip.
The best waiter I recall was at a Chinese restaurant who was friendly, attentive, prompt. He stripped a couple of pigeons of their flesh in display of high skill while explaining how they had been cooked. He allowed us to apply the sauce as we saw fit. He made eye contact with us every few minutes and whenever we wanted another bottle of wine he was able to mime 'more of the same?' and it was with us, opened and ready within 60 seconds.
He got a fat tip.
Over here if you're uninterested, slow or just useless you can expect to be told you are. If you want to get arsey about it, we'll happily chat about your performance with the manager.
I understand that some primo places pay nothing in America, the tips are so fantastic. Is this still so? That would be illegal here.
Studio 54 never paid their employees much.
They had guys fighting each other to work there.
Two bucks an hour sounds ridiculous.
It facilitates abuse and corruption.
Most places I've worked, the coffee machine made more money.

It took a long time to get the minimum wage in Britain.
It's a source of some pride.
But then we're all commies and don't really understand capitalism.
Why can't Americans be paid a living wage?



tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 4:25:19 AM)

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I understand that some primo places pay nothing in America, the tips are so fantastic. Is this still so? That would be illegal here.


You didnt read the thread. If you had, this question would not have been asked.

Servers in the US make between 2.13 and 7.50 an hour... with most being at the 2.50ish range. Depending on the type of restaurant, yes, tips can be fat. Those are typically the upper scale restaurants... the 25 dollar entrees and up places. I can make 300 a week in tips. Then again, a lobster sushi roll costs 22 dollars. Not a bad price, actually.

Why dont we have a living wage? Good question. Many of us would love the answer to that. College students wait tables because, frankly, you can go in, work three hours on a friday night, pay cell phone bills and have enough to party with the rest of the weekend. An hour prep time... and hour post shift work, and you are out the door.

quote:

Simply seeing 'service included' means to many of us that we've been stiffed and charged for something that should be down to how well it gets done, not an addition regardless of performance.


The places I have worked have always included gratuity on parties 6 or more. 18 - 20%, and the paying customer usually leaves me even more. Of course, I always make sure that person knows the tip is already added. 5 people in a party or less, and the tip is up to the customer to add. And, at any time, a customer can question the "automatic gratuity" by talking to a manager or owner.

IF I get stiffed, there is no doubt, usually, in my mind as to why.... service. On rare occasions someone will just be an ass and not leave a tip. I have had customers walk out and take both slips to a credit card payment, leaving no tip. But if my service was bad, I dont even question a low tip, or the lack of one.

Something else many do not realize. When I get tipped, all that money isnt mine to keep. There are the buss boys, the bartenders, the hostesses, in my place the sushi chefs to tip out. Then there is the dish washer and the pastry chef. All those people get a percentage of what I get tipped out on... and our bartenders make 8 an hour compared to servers who get 2.53.

So, after working 30 hours a week, usually at least one lunch shift, and a slow shift during the week, then all weekend from opening to close, I go home with around 300 a week. Thats after serving around 30 - 35 people a night.


That breaks down to a tip of 2.5 a person.

But, its around 30 dollars an hour for actual table service time.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 4:49:23 AM)

Best tipping scene evah!



tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 5:08:04 AM)

Love it! And, yeah, I hear that attitude a lot. And he wonders why his coffee was only filled three times. He needs to go back to McDonalds.



MadAxeman -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 5:24:47 AM)

I did read it.
Still don't quite understand how tipping became such an ingrained part of pay and conditions. It's difficult to tax, but gets taxed. It can be an emotional issue, but is calculated in percentages.
The maths and moral obligation is still irksome when one is just trying to enjoy an easy going meal. Larry David has several routines about how it's a social nightmare, so I think it also confuses native millionaires.
It appears from here that changes in your employment law are needed.
That looks like quite an undertaking.
We still have a good sized black (cash under the table) economy. Some of it is actually called 'grey' with legitimate businesses bending the law in a way that has become commonplace. The pub industry for example is dying here, at least one a week closes. While still having to pay enormous rents based upon when they were still full, they also have to pay minimum wage.
Two years ago, myself and three mates went out just before 8pm on Christmas eve to my local pub. There were less than a dozen people in there. We asked to play pool (the slot had a padlock on it) and was told that it could be taken off for £10. Wasn't sure we would be sticking around for 10 games so said no thanks, had one drink and called a cab (£20, negotiated down to £15 for a usually £5 journey) which took us to a much noisier place with doormen who asked for £20 per head to enter (upon complaining this was reduced to £25 all in). Drinks were half price and there was a buffet. We hadn't anticipated an evening of dancing, surf and turf or half priced booze. Am not sure at all how much we paid in tax, tip or overhead but we had a good time. Emerging at 3am we couldn't get a cab at any price.
Does this not happen in America?



kalikshama -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 5:35:17 AM)

Loves Mr Pink!

[err - the above does not constitute an endorsement of Mr. Pink's tipping philosophy.]













kalikshama -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 5:44:02 AM)

quote:

Grocery story service is incomparable too. Because of Belgian minimum wage standards, getting your groceries bagged for you is absolutely unheard of. Instead, they trow it at you on a small conveyer belt and you're supposed to keep up with the scanning, getting attitude from the cashier if you don't. Even if she's done scanning, she won't lift a finger to help you bag, and depending on how far behind you are, she will sit there looking very obviously annoyed. The idea that they would help you bring it to your car is even more unthinkable there than the fact that they could help you bag it.


That's funny - I PREFER to bag my own groceries as I am better at grouping them in logical units and less wasteful of bags. If there's a line at the regular lanes, I'll use a free self-checkout lane, even though cashiers can scan faster than I can.

If I use a regular lane and there is no bagger, I will bag. The only time I've ever asked for assistance to the car is when I had a hurt back and a 40# box of kitty litter.



Kaliko -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 5:52:42 AM)

FR~ First of all, before anyone jumps on me, I do tip everyone I should, and not poorly.

But, I don't understand why I'm doing it most of the time. I understand that servers make below minimum wage and tips are expected to supplement. (Unless something has changed with their salary structure that I don't know.)

Why am I tipping the hairdresser?
Pizza delivery?
Drivers?
Housekeepers?
Doormen?

When does it stop? Why does Starbucks have a tip jar on the counter?

Am I wrong? Do these people also make below minimum wage and are expected to supplement with tips? Perhaps they are and I just don't realize it? Are they considered tipped employees?

I truly don't want to do anything that is considered rude, but...I truly don't see why it's considered rude. Do they not make minimum wage? I mean, there are lots of people who make only minimum wage and we don't tip them. Why not? Why is it only certain industries? If I ask someone for directions while I'm buying a soda at a gas station, why don't I tip him? If I'm at the drug store and someone walks me down an aisle to show me where an item is, why don't I tip him? When my daycare provider hugs and love my child every day for pennies, why don't I tip her?

(To be clear, I'm not talking about gifts at the holidays and such. I'm talking about tips for service.)

And yes, I understand that minimum wage doesn't equal livable. I'm not saying they don't deserve more. I'm saying..why doesn't everybody who makes minimum wage deserve more? And since it's not happening across the board, then why are only some workers given the opportunity to earn a tip while others are not, even though both may have gone above and beyond for someone? Why do we pay extra and reward good service for some, and simply expect it from others?

And then....oddly enough...two times recently that I thought warranted a tip, it wasn't accepted. I offered a somewhat generous tip to my mechanic because I feel he went way above and beyond maybe not in his repairs but in his attention and speed in addressing my needs. He refused it. I also left a gift card for an appliance repairman who I felt worked very fairly with me on price, and he didn't take it.

Again, before somebody gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying they don't deserve more than they're making. I've been at minimum wage it's unlivable. I know that. But surely there are more people out there making minimum wage than we are tipping. What makes one group of people deserving of extra income and not another?



tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 6:11:57 AM)

Why am I tipping the hairdresser? Because she is providing a service, not a product.
Pizza delivery? Because you didnt go to get it, it was brought to you.. a service
Drivers? Because they provided you a service.
Housekeepers? Never had one
Doormen? Again, a service, not a product.

quote:

When does it stop? Why does Starbucks have a tip jar on the counter?


I dont tip at places like that.

quote:

Am I wrong? Do these people also make below minimum wage and are expected to supplement with tips? Perhaps they are and I just don't realize it? Are they considered tipped employees?


Nope, most make minimum or more. I see these types of jobs as service oriented... a Doorman catches me a cab, Ill slip him a buck. I dont live there, not staying at the hotel, so why shouldnt I when he goes out of his way to do something for me?

quote:

And yes, I understand that minimum wage doesn't equal livable. I'm not saying they don't deserve more. I'm saying..why doesn't everybody who makes minimum wage deserve more? And since it's not happening across the board, then why are only some workers given the opportunity to earn a tip while others are not, even though both may have gone above and beyond for someone? Why do we pay extra and reward good service for some, and simply expect it from others?


There is a difference between working at a place like McDonalds and working at a restaurant with sit down service.

McDonalds, you go in, you order, you pay, you take your food and sit down. As close to self service as you can get.

At a sit down restaurant, you enter, you are seated, your drink order is filled, the menu is explained, how the dishes are prepared should be explained, special requests can be filled, allergies are noted, the order is placed for you, food is brought, dishes are cleared, drinks refilled, more food if you are coursing.. and it goes on and on.

There is a world of difference between the two.

Hairdressers are not much different.

You can do a home job. You can ask a friend. Or you can get an expert who knows colors and styles, knowledgeable on hair types, upkeep (at least the good ones).

Thats the difference between paying for a product and paying for a service.

I always felt, dont want to tip a hair dresser, than either do your own or ask a friend.

Dont want to tip a waitress, go to McDonalds.

quote:

Again, before somebody gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying they don't deserve more than they're making. I've been at minimum wage it's unlivable. I know that. But surely there are more people out there making minimum wage than we are tipping. What makes one group of people deserving of extra income and not another?


No bunches here. I do understand many dont realize the in and outs of tipping or the why's. These threads are generally nice. Im just trying to help explain.


quote:

And then....oddly enough...two times recently that I thought warranted a tip, it wasn't accepted. I offered a somewhat generous tip to my mechanic because I feel he went way above and beyond maybe not in his repairs but in his attention and speed in addressing my needs. He refused it. I also left a gift card for an appliance repairman who I felt worked very fairly with me on price, and he didn't take it.


Depends. Many companies wont allow their non tipped employees to accept tips. Many people feel they get paid enough not to warrant a tip. Most mechanics fall into that range.



Marc2b -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 8:14:33 AM)

quote:

Best tipping scene evah!


Mr. Pink is a cheap bastard... and he's the one who got away with the diamonds [>:] IIRC (it's been a while since I've seen the movie).

But yeah, that is a great scene from a great movie.



GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 9:55:01 AM)

I dont think ANY of them got away with the diamonds...
I love QT...



agirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 11:00:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why am I tipping the hairdresser? Because she is providing a service, not a product.
Pizza delivery? Because you didnt go to get it, it was brought to you.. a service
Drivers? Because they provided you a service.
Housekeepers? Never had one
Doormen? Again, a service, not a product.


Hairdresser.....She IS providing a product that happens to be her skill...and I'm happy to pay whatever it is she /he charges if I choose her/him. She's a hairdresser, what else is she selling?

Pizza Delivery.... What would anyone expect from a job advertised as Pizza Delivery? I order a takeaway because they OFFER that. They aren't doing me a favour.

A driver... Well, what can I say.  They are drivers. This is their chosen job path.

Doorman, housekeeper....... same.

You're making some distinction for these jobs that I find difficult. My bank-service lady is terribly helpful and always has been, I don't tip her. My insurance guy has been fantastic, but I don't tip him. The barmen at my local  pub where I play banjo goes above and beyond when I run out of batteries for my recorder and so on, I don't tip them. I don't tip the wonderful people at Waitrose who help me stuff my groceries into bags and who smile and make shopping for groceries marginally better than the chore it is. What I do is I smile back and continue to frequent Waitrose.

It's the entire idea of people having to be *extra-nice* to make a liveable wage, the fact that it's dependant on the generosity of the customer.

My youngest son(17yrs) works for a Game company....9.30 dollars an hour.(£6.00 here) His hours fit in with college, he can juggle them with other staff. He has sales targets to reach EVEN as a part-timer. He's a student, but he's part of a team in this company and takes it seriously. The staff there do not, as Darque suggested, do enough not to get fired.

Around here, getting a job as a student is bloody hard won, frankly. You can't walk into a part-time job, there are LOTS of other hard-up students applying

I rather think we possibly eat out rather less and are prepared to pay for it when we do. We also are likely to spend all evening at our table when we do, it's not an *in and out* affair.

I'm not saying this is the way it is overall, but if you're pretty pleased to have your job ( and many people here ARE) you don't have to be payed *monkey wages* to be a decent member of staff and to work as well as you can. Is this rare in the USA?

A lot of bad work practise is down to cruddy management.

agirl





GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 11:05:14 AM)

agirl; there is obviously a serious disconnect between the US and the UK as far as tipping goes (wow! there's a shocker!! LOL) Two different societies.. two different approaches to tipping or not... *gasp*

(edited to correct my stupid typing)



TheBanshee -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 11:32:31 AM)

Okay, I also tip everyone I should and tip well, but I have a few irritations about it.

Why am I asked to contribute for a gift for the class teacher at Christmas and the end of the year.  Teachers in my area get paid quite well, and more than I do, and get all the benefits that go with a professional's salary.
   Why should I tip the postal worker?  Unless he does something unusual (walks through the snow and ice to deliver my mail).   The rule is, if your mailbox in obstructed, you don't get mail.  I have always gotten the "certified slip" in my mailbox to pick up a piece of at the post office even when I've been home, he didn't try to deliver and get a signature. 
   I've gone a hairdresser, and (I believe calculated because I was a good tipper), would have someone shampoo, then he'd do the cutting, then ask me if he wouldn't mind having another person do the blow drying because he was backed up.  The person who did the blow drying kept whipping the chair from side to side and have me contort forward and back (didn't move a muscle herself) - so therefore I'd need to tip three people for one haircut.  (yes, I still did the tipping, but found another hairdresser eventually).
    I've also heard stories from servers of the "Thank you - and thank you again" on the bill.  Watch the automatic gratuity charge on bills, often the server will scrawl an embellished "Thanks for coming here, Steve" over his little part of the bill so many people will tip on the entire bill that already included the tip. 
    I've seen gas attendants that have tip jars now and a sign "Tips are appreciated".  Sorry, unless you've done something other than pump the gas (or simply just taken the money, most are self-serve here), no tip is going to you.
   
   Generally I would never not tip in a place where I would want to ever eat or drink again.   Wait staff have also been known to "do things" to your food or drink and have the last laugh.  So, think twice about ordering your pizza from the same place you've stiffed the last driver - you don't think they've talked?



agirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 12:18:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

agirl; there is obviously a serious disconnect between the US and the UK as far as tipping goes (wow! there's a shocker!! LOL) Two different societies.. two different approaches to tipping or not... *gasp*

(edited to correct my stupid typing)


Yes Greedy.  But I do understand that tipping is part of life in the USA. I really find it a grotty concept though. Complicated, embarrassing and STILL I can't see why service staff get paid such shit wages.

If paying minimum wage here just bought you crap service, no bugger would bother going out to eat etc. We EXPECT people to jolly well do at least a fair job. If that's a sense of entitlement, well, yeah!

agirl



Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 12:23:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Grocery story service is incomparable too. Because of Belgian minimum wage standards, getting your groceries bagged for you is absolutely unheard of. Instead, they trow it at you on a small conveyer belt and you're supposed to keep up with the scanning, getting attitude from the cashier if you don't. Even if she's done scanning, she won't lift a finger to help you bag, and depending on how far behind you are, she will sit there looking very obviously annoyed. The idea that they would help you bring it to your car is even more unthinkable there than the fact that they could help you bag it.


That's funny - I PREFER to bag my own groceries as I am better at grouping them in logical units and less wasteful of bags. If there's a line at the regular lanes, I'll use a free self-checkout lane, even though cashiers can scan faster than I can.

If I use a regular lane and there is no bagger, I will bag. The only time I've ever asked for assistance to the car is when I had a hurt back and a 40# box of kitty litter.


I prefer to bag myself as well, because I'm used to having every bag organized per room/cupboard/shelf it goes it at home.
I can't do self-check out, because I usually have a grocery cart loaded to the top, sometimes two at the same time.
However, while I prefer to do my own bagging, I also prefer the grocery store personal to at least try to be helpful and attentive, instead of trowing me annoyed looks because I'm not going fast enough, while they sit there and file their nails (and yes, I've had that happen in Belgium).
The attitude difference is huge, and considering that I'm a paying customer I do prefer not to be treated like I'm an inconvenience to the store when I just spend several hundreds of dollars there.
On top of that, bags haven't been complimentary in Belgium for years (because of environmental reasons) which means that you need to either bring your own, or get charged 5 cents a bag if you use the grocery store bags.
So just organizing your boxes and bags you've brought with takes a moment, and they again, usually just get annoyed at that, instead of trying to help out a little.



MissAsylum -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 12:38:45 PM)

*FR*

I have never heard of getting a pamphlet as a tip. It just doesn't make sense to me.

"Yes, the word of God can be spiritually fulfilling....but spiritual fulfillment doesn't exactly pay my rent."

For what I do (pro domme for those who don't know, and i'm not trying to spark a debate here[:)] ), I factor in
a 15% tip to the base charge.

I hate to do that, but rarely a day goes by where I am bitched at for my rate being "too high".

When it comes to anything else no matter if i'm getting my nails done, getting take away delivered, sitting down at a restaurant, I always tip 15% if the bill is $40 and up, and I give a fiver if its less than that. If my server went above and beyond the call of duty, i've been know to lay down $20's and $50's.

Unless the service itself is truly horrid (and the service alone) I always tip.



agirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/25/2011 12:52:17 PM)

Crumbs, that would be enough to end my *shopping experience* with ANY store.

I'm always worrying about money, never have QUITE enough to go round comfortably but bugger that for a game of soldiers.

Being pleasant and helpful must be just the standard around here. Even in the stores I don't like , such as Tesco, the staff have always helped me pack my bags.

eta.. It's encouraged to bring your own bags here too. In fact you get rewarded for doing so. But if you forget, there still are free bags.

agirl



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